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GMLumpy

Missiles & Protons? are they worth it?

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hello,

I've been a lurker for awhile now & have learned a ton about how to better play this game (thanks everyone!).  

I am a Rebel player & a big fan of the A-Wings.  they are fast and agile & with 3 green dice they are hard to kill.  

I have been toying with the idea of 2 Green Squad with missiles (cluster or Assault, whatever) to have a good alpha strike.  but against a TIE (3 Def), 4 atk vs 3 def without a focus token hasn't worked very well in the couple of games I've tried them on.  Proton torps seem to be the same problem.  So I decided to ask the "experts" here on these wonderful forums.  Have you guys had any luck with them? are they worth the points? should I try something else for a Rebel alpha attack?

Thanks

 

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In my experience, missiles and protons are for an "Alpha Strike". That is to say, you get one per ship, and you launch them all at once to cripple your opponent's fleet, and then fight as usual.

For this reason, a 5 bomber fleet with concussion missiles would almost always beat a 6 bomber fleet, with only 1 concussion missile.

However, double-stacking missiles or protons on a boat that can handle them? That's just asking for trouble. That's trusting your ship will last long enough for a Beta strike, which is often not the case.

 

Also, a repeatable secondary weapon will always outclass a discarded secondary weapon.

Bombs are a different category altogether, being the most easily used of all of them. They do not require any specific actions, and do not even take up your attack!

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The most effective missile strike with an A-wing is to combine a homing missile with the elite pilot talent Push the Limit.  This allows you to target lock and focus, fire the missile, and then still have both the focus token and target lock (due to how homing missiles function) to reroll the dice/change eyeballs, plus it negates the use of evade tokens if the TIEs choose to use them.  This also has the added benefit that the A-wing can still use push the limit after firing the missile to target lock+focus or evade+focus to make the most of its potential

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capt jonus + missiles on friendly ships at range1 = worth it.

I'm getting less an less sure he is worth the extra 10 pts, for a couple of missile attacks. I think he shines far more backing up a firespray or 2 with HLC, so it's not just one use... Saying that Firespray+HLC, Jonus and another ship with missiles, I think would be quite good, possible Vader with swarm tactics to allow your Firespray to fire first.

Edited by Rodent Mastermind

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I now have an image of a poor naked guy running in place while floating in space...

 

I have rarely used missiles/torpedoes, though I do really like the HLC. The few times I've fought against enemies using missiles only an advanced proton torpedo had any significant impact, taking out Fel in 1 hit (I'd bumped so no action).

 

I feel you need to design your list around them, and be able to balance the right amount of points on 1 shot weapons. I've used seismic mines quite a bit as well, as these will without any action do 1 damage to any ship within range. No rolling involved.

 

The HLC is also a all game threat. 4 dice at range 3 is quite a big thing, and for 2 points more then a torpedo or assault missile. sign me up!.

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Biggs is a good ship to have if you want a rebel alpha strike list. keep him close to your a-wings / b wings / y wings to get their missiles / torps off. He "should" live long enough for at least that, just know that he will not last that long especially without any upgrades. 

 

made a quick list / might have some merit for a alpha strike.

1x biggs 25 pts

3x green squadron pilots 75pts

-all with homing or assault missiles

-all with veteran instincts

 

personally i like cluster missiles better, gives you two 3 dice attacks for 4 points instead of one heavier 5 point missile. all depends on what your shooting at though. my recent opponents have been using shuttles as of late.. hehe

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I didn't think so at first. And I probably wouldn't take them on X-wings. They are already pretty good offensively.

I like concussion missiles better than proton torpedoes. The Torpedo's ability is most useful after the shields are destroyed, but both weapons are also best used at range 3. I also don't love putting them on ships that are already expensive. A-wings, and TIE Bombers are my favorite to load up.

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The trick to using missiles/torpedoes is to plan for them. Slapping on them on a ship without a plan to maximize the impact is really wasted points.

 

I agree with you. that's why I like the A-Wings, a straight 5 plus a boost gets them in line of most TIES that do 4 or 5 straight as well.  And with PTL I can still target lock. if I can get away with it I'd prefer to TL & focus.

I have also learned it's all about placement as well.

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And with PTL I can still target lock.

Yes generally speaking you have to be able to TL+Focus to make effective use of missiles/torpedeos. Although Capt Jonus with his reroll is pretty close to as effective.

The problem with Homing missiles is that they will typically not get a lot more bang, but then you're left with a completely stripped down 4th Green Squad pilot. As opposed to a 4th one with PtL, if you use Concussion Missiles instead.

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I'm a Rebel player most of the time. so Capt. Jonus isn't always an option for me, though I do like him when I play Empire.

 

in that case, Jan Ors and PTL on the missile carrier. Seriously no joke, your Green Awings PTL concussion now deal 4-5 damage, or your Wedge PTL APT now does 6 straight damage with -1 agility dice

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in that case, Jan Ors

Tried a list with Jan, Luke and Wedge, and really liked it. That extra dice can really make a huge difference in the right spot.

Wedge at range 1 with Marksmanship can dish out a ton of damage.

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Advanced Proton torps + something to give you a focus (push the limit or the HWK come to mind) usually means 1 dead tie. Even with a brilliant roll of 3 evades or 2 + an evade token means usually 1 or 2 crits which is enough to finish off a ship or drastically reduce it's capabilities (or if you are lucky, that crit counts as 2 and it is still dead anyways  :lol: )

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Advanced Proton torps + something to give you a focus (push the limit or the HWK come to mind) usually means 1 dead tie.

The only issue though is you just spent 6 points for that APT, or half the price of that tie you just killed.

Which isn't to say it's not worth taking, but if you don't have a better target to use it on. I think you'll find it wasn't worth the points.

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So far I am 4-0 with this build:

 

Howlrunner w/ Swarm tactics upgrade
Tie Interceptor Alpha SQRN pilot
Tie Bomber Captain Jonus with Swarm tactics, Cluster missiles, Assault Missiles
Tie Bomber Scimitar SDRN Pilot with Cluster Missiles, proton torps and Assault Missiles
 

CPT Jounus has paid off everytime as I keep the two bombers in a tight formation and they can launch missiles at 1-2 or 3 the re-roll ability with cluster missiles is huge and if you can catch your opponent bunched up early on the assault missles are also very deadly.  Usually I group Howlrunner and the interceptor, but if facig high skilled rebels Howlrunner passing swarm tactics to Jonus and then on to Scimitar gives you three 8 during combat usually with the initative.  I have yet to lose  a bomber as I usually close with Howlrunner and the Alpha.

 

Prior to the Tie Bomber I rarely used missles as the imperials at the ships were to fragile IMO.

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Advanced Proton torps + something to give you a focus (push the limit or the HWK come to mind) usually means 1 dead tie.

The only issue though is you just spent 6 points for that APT, or half the price of that tie you just killed.

Which isn't to say it's not worth taking, but if you don't have a better target to use it on. I think you'll find it wasn't worth the points.

 

 

see that's my question are they worth the points for a single use? I could do a lot with those extra points...

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I have a feeling that torps, missiles, and bombers will be important in a big way when the epic ships are released. 

 

People at my LGS have all predicted this, and have been gobbling up bombers and b-wings. 

Edited by Viceroy Bolda

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see that's my question are they worth the points for a single use?

Myself I'd tend towards cheaper Proton Torps, or Missiles. 6 points to kill a single tie just isn't worth it IMO. But at the same time, the answer is a bit nuanced, so it's hard to give a simple yes or no answer.

Killing a Academy Pilot with a APT is IMO a huge waste of points. Killing Howlrunner in one turn with one might be the difference between defeat and victory though.

I think APT are best used against things like Firesprays, YT's and shuttles, or perhaps even B-Wings. Ships with lots of HP's but low defense. If you're facing a Tie swarm, I'd rather have those points somewhere else.

Torpedoes are generally better used when you know you'll hit hull, because of the [eye] = [crit] built in to torpedoes.

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Assault missles vs a tie Swarm can be very effective since there is a good chance you will catch several withing range one of each other espeically if your opponent tends to use Howlrunner or swarm tactics.

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Assault missles vs a tie Swarm can be very effective.

Yes it can. I have a list that has so far worked well vs swarms. Lando w/Squad leader, and 2 A's with Assault Missles. Well there's more to it then that, but that's the basic list. Lando lets the A's both take 2 actions, so they can TL+Focus and fire.

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The only issue though is you just spent 6 points for that APT, or half the price of that tie you just killed.

Which isn't to say it's not worth taking, but if you don't have a better target to use it on. I think you'll find it wasn't worth the points. 

Spending 6 points to kill a 12 point TIE may not be the best investment although it may prevent that 12 point ship from killing your valuable ships.  On the other hand if that 6 point APT kills a 30 point fighter with one hit most will say it is points well spent.  Knocking big chunks off the tough ships is also something very desirable.

 

Now I really do think loading up three or more missiles on a ship is definitely asking for trouble.

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