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Lockthor

Beastmaster's Stalker Ability Card

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Hi fellow gamers!

 

I would like to hear your thoughts about the Beastmaster's Stalker Ability Card, especially the second part of the text "Additionally a monster cannot declare your Wolf as the target of an attack if it could legally target a hero figure instead".

 

We are depating this a little now and then, ofc the debate is heated up from time to time depending on who is overlord and who is beastmaster.

 

So, give me your thoughts on the matter.

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To me it seems straight forward. If a melee monstor wants to attack the wolf, but a hero is within range of the melee attack i.e. standing next to the monstor, then the monstor must attack the hero instead.

 

For ranged attacks if a hero is in LOS of the monstor then the monstor must go for the hero instead even if it is virtually impossible range wise to hit the hero.

 

This does not require that a monstor must move towards a hero to initiate the attack as that is a different part of the monstors activation. Only the attack is affected by the Stalker ability.

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I agree.  It simply says that the wolf cannot be declared as a target of an attack if there's another legal hero target available.  If the monster is ranged, every hero in LOS of said monster is a legal target.  If it's melee, then any hero adjacent is a legal target.  If the monster is melee and the attack you're making has reach, then any hero within 2 spaces, in LOS, is a legal target.

 

Note that attacks that have no target, like Sweep, would smack into the Wolf just fine regardless.

 

What you really should be asking is:  What happens when a Blood Ape Leap Attack's through spaces containing the Wolf?

 

Leap Attack: This monster may move its Speed, ignoring enemy figures as it does so. When if finishes its movement, perform a single attack that targets each figure this monster moved through. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. Limit once per turn.

 

I'm gonna say that because no official "declaration of target" is made upon declaring this particular attack, it ignores the Stalker context.  I'm open to alternate theories.

 

Jee

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Yeah, I'd be willing to give Leap Attack a pass in this case.  A more lawyery person than I could probably do something with the word "instead" on the end of Stalker.

 

As for the Stalker ability in question, I agree with the others that it's fairly straightforward.  When the monster declares his attack, identify all legal targets to choose from.  If the answer is anything other than just "Wolf" he must pick something other than "Wolf."

 

Note that if the OL really wants to hit the Wolf, it's usually not that hard to put the monster in a position where the Wolf is the only legal target and then smack it.  You can activate other monsters first and use them to block LoS to heroes if you really need to.

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Sry 4 necroposting, but we'v had a question during the game. 

We had a OneFist with a Beastmaster class with wolf and "Stalker skill"

So Overlord do the next move: Zombie goes C - 5, attack the wolf, and then continue moving action. I sad it was wrong,he CAN legally attack the hero instead of wolf. Than he do the next moves C-5,D-6,C-5 and Attack the Wolf again, because he's have no other targets. Is that a legal? Coz it's clean that he is planing to attack the wolf, and do this moves for cheatin.

 

1.jpg

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Posted (edited)

If you're talking about the OL taking a move action, and using a single movement point to get to C5, then attack the wolf, that's totally OK, because the zombie can't attack anything else while it's in that space.

But from D6, then yeah, the wolf can't be attacked, because Captain Hook is a legal target, should the zombie attack while in D6.

Basically, Stalker doesn't kick in until a monster has decided to attack. Then you see if the wolf is a valid target or not.

Edited by Lightningclaw
"shout the zombie" lol
Zaltyre, Charmy, Ispher and 1 other like this

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Agreed. The monster is NOT compelled to stay in a spot where it could attack another hero. It is free to manipulate its position such that the wolf is the only valid target.

Ispher likes this

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11 hours ago, Lightningclaw said:

If you're talking about the OL taking a move action, and using a single movement point to get to C5, then attack the wolf, that's totally OK, because the zombie can't attack anything else while it's in that space.

He can legaly attack the hero if he moves to D6. The skill is literally read as "a monster cannot declare your Wolf as the target of an attack if it could legally target a hero figure instead.". So he moves C5 - for what? For declaring the wolf as a only one target, but it's abuse. Could he attack the hero? Yes. But he is doing a movement for C5, and he's not declaring a wolfs as a target of attack for that moves, but it is clean that he is planing to do that!

What's the point then is in stalker skill, if it's only used for a couple moments while you are in place like 2 cells with? It's not so hard to place the monster in posotion where he can legaly attack only the Wolf. For me OL algorithm should be like: Can I attack a hero on begining of my turn? If yes - i must attack, and not to trying to target wolf by any moves if it has a stalkers skill.

For me it's unsportsmanlike conduct, something like a bug in description, coz  wolf is "oneshoot" target, and he's calling require an action.

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Playing by the rules is never unsportsmanlike.

Stalker is a 1 XP skill that protects your Wolf if you place him the right way, and that gives him more movement, allowing him to reach further targets or helping you to place him the right way. If it made him invulnerable, it would be way too strong for a 1 XP skill.

Unfortunately it doesn't work as you thought (although, if you are playing Shadows of Nerekhall, you certainly could use the help because it is a **** difficult campaign!).

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, TIXTT said:

What's the point then is in stalker skill, if it's only used for a couple moments while you are in place like 2 cells with? It's not so hard to place the monster in posotion where he can legaly attack only the Wolf. For me OL algorithm should be like: Can I attack a hero on begining of my turn? If yes - i must attack, and not to trying to target wolf by any moves if it has a stalkers skill.

For me it's unsportsmanlike conduct, something like a bug in description, coz  wolf is "oneshoot" target, and he's calling require an action.

First, let's be clear about something. The OL has to follow the rules, but he does not have to play nice. He is trying to win, just like you are. Trying to kill your wolf may be a waste of time for him, but when it isn't, he can use every tool at his disposal to get the job done.

Like just about everything in Descent, the wording of an ability is very important, even if the realistic idea might be different. Stalker restricts which target can be declared by a monster. The process of "declaring a target" does not happen at the beginning of the turn, nor at the beginning of a monster activation, but as the first step of the attack itself:

1. Declare target (and weapon)
2. Roll dice
3. Check range
4. Spend surges
5. Deal damage

So the stalker ability kicks in right then, and no sooner. That's why moving the zombie is legal. What's the point then, you ask? 

itUJjSW.png

In this image, the "H" is the hero One-Fist, and the "W" is the wolf. The spiders are unable to get by the wolf without first defeating (or moving) One Fist. On top of that,  if the beastmaster has "Survivalist", he'll have an extra 2 health and a brown die. The wolf becomes as tough as One Fist.

Furthermore, consider that for ranged monsters any hero in LOS is a valid target, not just those close by. So, here's the really ridiculous situation- let's pretend your zombie is now a "Goblin Archer" (ranged) and he wants to hit your wolf.

YdA3Mb8.png

The spaces with a red X have LOS to One Fist, but not to the wolf.

The spaces with a blue X have LOS to the wolf, but not to One Fist.

The spaces with a white X have LOS to both.

So, Stalker takes ALL of those white spaces and makes them illegal to attack the wolf, when otherwise the goblin could. Please note I only drew X's out to range 6. Even the one way up top.

EDIT: Oh, and if you were to move One Fist one space up, those 3 blue spaces to the left of the wolf would turn white. With careful placement, Stalker is incredibly useful. 

 

Edited by Zaltyre
Sadgit, Charmy, TIXTT and 1 other like this

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1 hour ago, Zaltyre said:

Like just about everything in Descent, the wording of an ability is very important, even if the realistic idea might be different. Stalker restricts which target can be declared by a monster. The process of "declaring a target" does not happen at the beginning of the turn, nor at the beginning of a monster activation, but as the first step of the attack itself

Thanks for you quick and detailed answer. Hope it will helps someone like me in future xD

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