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Alistaja

Battlelore Good, bad and FFG

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hobbeskind said:

On the other hand, I cannot remember when was the last update to Chess. Yet it seems the whole world and Harry Potter is still playing it.
Meaning in the end it is the players who have to do it.

Yes, but chess is sold as a complete game.  The instruction manual for BattleLore hints at what is to come (Heroes), there is a mystery spot on the war council sheet, and there are counters with unexplained uses.  BattleLore was marketed as a campaign game -- but this promise has never been fulfilled.

All the community is asking for is a glimpse of what FFG is thinking.  Is the universe going to remain Uchronia?  Will the hard to find creatures be re-released? What does heroes entail?  How will armies be filled out or sold?  Will there be a scenario editor? How will the campaigns work?  Are they like the M'44 Campaign book or is there something RGP-lite involved?   FFG must have some answers or thoughts about these questions.  Wouldn't it be in there best interest to shed a little light on these subjects?  After all, these are the question that DOW wouldn't answer and were excoriated for -- and IMHO catalyzed the transfer of the license to FFG.

Don't get me wrong, I really like FFG and own quite a few of their games.  Their productions are top notch and customer service is excellent.  It's just that I had high hopes for BattleLore, and I thought that after 7-8 months of BattleLore being FFG property that we'd have some more information.

Geoff

 

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As I normally do (!), I totally agree with ColtsFan! Why in the WORLD would FFG acquire the rights to a game and then sit back and watch it die? That makes no sense for a business, and FFG IS a business!!!

I ALSO agree with those looking for SOME sort of NEWS!!! It would be nice to hear SOMETHING. Heroes would be super-sweet, of course. Someone mentioned hoping that FFG would release different armies (undead, for one) as I THOUGHT DOW was going to do. Here's hoping that this all takes place and we don't go the crappy paper map route again...  gui%C3%B1o.gif

SO...FFG...any news?!? Anyone? Bueller?  lengua.gif

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playdead said:

As I normally do (!), I totally agree with ColtsFan! Why in the WORLD would FFG acquire the rights to a game and then sit back and watch it die? That makes no sense for a business, and FFG IS a business!!!

I

I don't believe that FFG intends for BattleLore to die.  However, the fact is that interest is waning due to the lack of communication.  Even a monthly update with a little news about the progress would be enough to quell my anxiety.

And as you say, letting it die makes no sense for a business.  So why are they letting us feel that way?

Geoff

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 Good point there,

Actually the Bible is constantly being updated, a least here in Holland , though I guess it is more something like "Houserules". Anyway that did not stop the Dutch secularisation. As for Harry Potter, I still have them and do re read them even if no new books are coming.

Harry 

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gheintze said:

playdead said:

 

As I normally do (!), I totally agree with ColtsFan! Why in the WORLD would FFG acquire the rights to a game and then sit back and watch it die? That makes no sense for a business, and FFG IS a business!!!

I

 

I don't believe that FFG intends for BattleLore to die.  However, the fact is that interest is waning due to the lack of communication.  Even a monthly update with a little news about the progress would be enough to quell my anxiety.

And as you say, letting it die makes no sense for a business.  So why are they letting us feel that way?

Geoff

Is interest really waning?  If FFG didn't release anything for another yea,r, would you gladly jump back in?

Maybe I have too many other games but my interest for Memoir '44 has waned and DOW has plenty of new stuff out there to grab my attention.  Likewise, i am not ditching my BL stuff and when FFG gets around tor eleasing something, BL will still probably sit right where it is at until I have the desire to get back into it.  But my interest is not based on FFG activitiy.  My lack of interst is due to the other games wanting to be played.

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Well I promised myself I wouldn't post on this topic again BUTaplauso.gifThank you Geoff.You have manage to capture the feelings of many of us concerning BL.

CF I understand your point on "interest" as gamers do tend to run hot & cold & back again(currently I'm back enjoying board hex/counter War Games) but if FFG sprang a BL expansion on us would I buy it...maybepreocupado.gif.A couple of months ago the answer would have been Yes but as time passes my "interest" in BL has been waining as far as buying into the Game World.I'm using BL now as basically a combat system for other Games (ie fighting out the battles in Warriors of God or my home brewed Middle Earth 2nd Age Campaign).Thus I have lost "interest" in BL promosed Game World,this means I might buy the Hero Expansion as it would add to the game system but would probably not invest in an Undead or Elf expansion .

The longer FFG goes without giving us some REAL information on BL the more gamers it turns off.DoW left a community of gamers wanting more & FFG has dropped the ball.The longer they wait to pick it up the harder it gets to recreate "interest".

 

OD

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Old Dwarf said:

Well I promised myself I wouldn't post on this topic again BUT...

hehe, I've already broken this promise I made to myself a few times ;)  My rationale for doing so is a point that is often made implicitly (anytime it is mentioned that "promises made by DoW are yet unfilled, etc.") but I've missed made explicitly:  This is not a complete game that we have here and now.  To me, this makes the distinction between the clamor for more information being warranted or conspicuous.

While I'm fine waiting around for information/game materials, I will not find fault with those expressing their care to hear and see more,  as I am also one who cares to hear and see more.  I want to play the game that Richard Borg is playing babeo.gif

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 When a good game gets out  there is always some excitement, smart companies "milk" that excimentent, by installing forums, press relases, and udtaes and expansions. And then let the game die, because new ones are  ready for release.

Games Workshop was a master at that until gamers caught up with them and decided not to follow the Pied Piper anymore.

Yet I still even play HeroQuest from time to time and still do hang on to Batlemasters and expansions.

So what I am trying to say is, that expansions are nice but Battlelore (with Call to Arms ) is a nice game already. I can play it over and over, make my own scenario's and even my own armies.

If nobody brings out official expansions, it is their loss, because I simply will spend my money elsewhere.

Undeads can be bought in a lot of places and I am not sure I really do need heroes ( unless I want my warcouncil on the Battlefield and vulnerable to attacks, which to me sounds interesting for the moment)

 

Harry

 

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hobbeskind said:

So what I am trying to say is, that expansions are nice but Battlelore (with Call to Arms ) is a nice game already. I can play it over and over, make my own scenario's and even my own armies.

 

Well, it is a nice game, but it is not complete, and I think the game as it is now actually gets stale after a while.

I mean, even Richard Borg himself commented that one of the most fun things in the game is to figure out how to deal with new creatures.  The game really needs a flow or trickle of new stuff to be really exciting.

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diaper said:

Well, it is a nice game, but it is not complete, and I think the game as it is now actually gets stale after a while.

What does that mean, that it's not complete?  Sure, more can be added, but I feel like I have a complete game.  ANY game gets stale after a while.  I'm a boardgamer though, so I just don't often end up playing the same game enough times for it to get stale.  Maybe you only own a few games and you have the opportunity to play them to death.  Wouldn't you rather try a new game than just buy another expansion for what you already own?  I do buy expansions occcasionally, but I don't own a single game where I expect/demand an expansion.

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Trump said:

 

 

What does that mean, that it's not complete?  Sure, more can be added, but I feel like I have a complete game.  ANY game gets stale after a while.  I'm a boardgamer though, so I just don't often end up playing the same game enough times for it to get stale.  Maybe you only own a few games and you have the opportunity to play them to death.  Wouldn't you rather try a new game than just buy another expansion for what you already own?  I do buy expansions occcasionally, but I don't own a single game where I expect/demand an expansion.

BattleLore is not complete, and in a sense never will be, as it is designed to be an open-ended system.  Heroes will be a foundational release, one that I consider essential to opening up the rpg/campaign facets of the game that have been hinted at, sometimes subtly other times heavily, since the beginning of the game.

Both the historical factions and the fantasy races have a lot of room to grow.  The historical side of the coin is a closed system, but the fantasy side is the open-ended face.  Call to Arms is a good start, but the current game lacks Dwarf and Goblin deployment decks (and the human one should probably be re-worked too).

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toddrew said:

Trump said:

 

 

 

What does that mean, that it's not complete?  Sure, more can be added, but I feel like I have a complete game.  ANY game gets stale after a while.  I'm a boardgamer though, so I just don't often end up playing the same game enough times for it to get stale.  Maybe you only own a few games and you have the opportunity to play them to death.  Wouldn't you rather try a new game than just buy another expansion for what you already own?  I do buy expansions occcasionally, but I don't own a single game where I expect/demand an expansion.

 

 

BattleLore is not complete, and in a sense never will be, as it is designed to be an open-ended system.  Heroes will be a foundational release, one that I consider essential to opening up the rpg/campaign facets of the game that have been hinted at, sometimes subtly other times heavily, since the beginning of the game.

Both the historical factions and the fantasy races have a lot of room to grow.  The historical side of the coin is a closed system, but the fantasy side is the open-ended face.  Call to Arms is a good start, but the current game lacks Dwarf and Goblin deployment decks (and the human one should probably be re-worked too).

So are you saying it's not complete because they've hinted at doing more with the game?  Or it's incomplete because the game can be expanded?  That doesn't make sense.  I can call any game incomplete by those standards.

All I'm really trying to say here is that it doesn't sound right to me to throw around the word "complete" here.  It implies I've purchased a bicycle that's missing a tire.  Sure, I CAN find a use for it, but it's hardly worth my time until the bicycle is complete.  And even if I have two tires and can ride all over my neighborhood, is my bicycle incomplete because I can see there are clips under the seat to perhaps hold a special water bottle attachment that the makers hinted at?  Or perhaps my bicycle could have different handlebars installed.  Is it now incomplete?

 

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Trump said:

 

Trump said: 

 

So are you saying it's not complete because they've hinted at doing more with the game?  Or it's incomplete because the game can be expanded?  That doesn't make sense.  I can call any game incomplete by those standards.

 

It's not imcomplete because they've hinted at doing more with the game.  It's incomplete because they promised to do more with the game.  Mention of the Heroes expansion was made in the first rule book, there's a "?" on the board for something, there are tokens included in the game for some mysterious purpose.  A campaign feel was promised in the lead up to the game, and has not been delivered as of yet.

It's not incomplete simply because the game can be expanded.  Battle Cry could have been expanded, but wasn't.  It's not incomplete because everything described in the rulebook is in the box.  Most other games are complete without expansions -- Carcassonne, Settlers, Formula D, etc... Even if they hint at expansions, there is nothing in the box the requires them.

All that is needed is a few communications from FFG.  Heck, even if they just released scenarios every month or two -- at least we would know they were thinking about it. 

Geoff

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Old Dwarf said:

Well I promised myself I wouldn't post on this topic again BUTaplauso.gifThank you Geoff.You have manage to capture the feelings of many of us concerning BL.

CF I understand your point on "interest" as gamers do tend to run hot & cold & back again(currently I'm back enjoying board hex/counter War Games) but if FFG sprang a BL expansion on us would I buy it...maybepreocupado.gif.A couple of months ago the answer would have been Yes but as time passes my "interest" in BL has been waining as far as buying into the Game World.I'm using BL now as basically a combat system for other Games (ie fighting out the battles in Warriors of God or my home brewed Middle Earth 2nd Age Campaign).Thus I have lost "interest" in BL promosed Game World,this means I might buy the Hero Expansion as it would add to the game system but would probably not invest in an Undead or Elf expansion .

The longer FFG goes without giving us some REAL information on BL the more gamers it turns off.DoW left a community of gamers wanting more & FFG has dropped the ball.The longer they wait to pick it up the harder it gets to recreate "interest".

 

OD

Tell me of your will power once they announce.  I bet you'll be the first in line as soon as they do ;)

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ColtsFan76 said:

 

 

Tell me of your will power once they announce.  I bet you'll be the first in line as soon as they do ;)

I will be first in line -- no doubt about it.  But this wait for information is maddening... ;)

 

Geoff

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toddrew said:

gheintze said:

 

 

 

I will be first in line -- no doubt about it.  But this wait for information is maddening... ;)

 

 

Second.  You'll be second in line ;)

 

BAH!!!!

 

( Zeal curses his willpower, knowing he too will be among the first to hold the shiny, pretty plastic)

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As this discussion has lighten my mood, the Grim stuff is back. As FFG should produce "more to BL scene" it should atleast release some editor,

 

... next text is just a worst case scenario:

     FFG got BL to get rid of the competition ? Then shutting it down .. I dont think that this is the case, but as the greed that US has been showing (?) in the economy now...

 

just a stupid idea I know ;)

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Alistaja said:

... next text is just a worst case scenario:

     FFG got BL to get rid of the competition ? Then shutting it down .. I dont think that this is the case, but as the greed that US has been showing (?) in the economy now...

I think they could've saved some coin and let DoW continue to do that on their own ;)

Just messing a bit there my own self gran_risa.gif  I've no doubt that FFG took on BL to do great things with it - just as I have no doubt that DoW had grand plans for the game as well.  Waiting (patiently, might I add) for the execution of said plans...

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Old Dwarf said:

CF...your probably right.Nothing makes things "all forgiven"like a new expansion.

 

OD

gran_risa.gif

 

Well not to fan the flames after I try to put out the fire.  But it looks like FFG has been slowly releasing news items about Summer Releases.  I would hope BL would get its own news item in the next couple of weeks.

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toddrew said:

gheintze said:

 

 

 

I will be first in line -- no doubt about it.  But this wait for information is maddening... ;)

 

 

Second.  You'll be second in line ;)

And their marketing practices even more so.   Gee, the game is ranked in like 30 (give or take 5 places..) on BGG and it is getting nothing.   Makes your head wanta spin on why they don't even have a person pop in and say something (Person meaning an FFG person, not Richard)

Cab

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