Fydae strain Plague Zombies- a threat? (potentially Scrivners Star)

[SJE 1]

So I was taking a closer look at DotDG and Scriveners Star and I was wondering how much of a threat the Plague zombies would be?

My problem is that I have an Adeptus Sororitas and Arbites who are both in fairly chunky non-Primitive power  or riot armour. Combined with the zombies Primitive attacks, I'm not seeing how any zombie can do enough damage to penetrate their armour. Other than as yet undecided power/battery contraints on the Battle Sisters power armour (Astartes and Sororitas seem to go for days behind enemy lines in their power armour) I cant see any weakness that would let the plague zombies or even disease worry the good Sister (who has both sealed systems and Pure Faith)

 

While some of the rest of the party might be vulnerable to zombie attacks, what can you recommend to properly threaten the sister and Arbites in a Fydae Outbreak situation?

 

Thx.

Steve

[Cifer 211]

Just don't.

Firstly, there's always the potential of a Righteous Fury, which could at least wound the arbitrator, so the chance for an eventually fatal hit is there.

Secondly, even if these two are relatively well-protected, their buddies aren't - and your generic zombie apocalypse usually means zombies are not exactly in short supply. If you set up constant pressure where it's hard for the Sororitas to get things done away from the rest of the group without endangering them, she'll hopefully feel threatened enough by proxy of her friends.

In fact, it's very easy to just overwhelm the group if they don't have someone relatively immune to the zombies.

[Blodgett 2]

No matter how tough a person is, if there are hundreds or even thousands of something, sooner or later, they will overwhelm them. It may take awhile, but its a numbers game.

 

Zombies don't get tired or stop to rest. Humans, even one as modified as an Astartes, have to rest sooner or later.

 

Finally, ammunition. It isn't unlimited as pc's can only carry so much. And depending on the situation, there may not be ammo / weapons available. After all, a lot of Imperial Cities don't allow the civilians to have weapons.

[Cifer 211]

No matter how tough a person is, if there are hundreds or even thousands of something, sooner or later, they will overwhelm them. It may take awhile, but its a numbers game.

Actually, I'd guesstimate the Sister would have good chances at least against "hundreds" of zombies. To deal damage, a zombie has to hit (50% chance with superior numbers), deal righteous fury (10% chance), confirm that fury (50% again) and, assuming a TB of 3, roll another 10 on the damage (10%). This results in a 0.00125% chance of dealing at least one point of damage per attack. If the Sister has a Blessed or Holy weapon, it's quite likely that she will down one zombie per two or three attacks (2*(1D10+3+2)-6=2D10+4 for a Holy sword wielded with a SB of 3 in a Power Armour against an enemy with TB 6).

 

This might change somewhat with grappling rules, as I haven't looked at them too much.

[xenobiotica 0]

Cifer said:

Actually, I'd guesstimate the Sister would have good chances at least against "hundreds" of zombies. To deal damage, a zombie has to hit (50% chance with superior numbers), deal righteous fury (10% chance), confirm that fury (50% again) and, assuming a TB of 3, roll another 10 on the damage (10%). This results in a 0.00125% chance of dealing at least one point of damage per attack. If the Sister has a Blessed or Holy weapon, it's quite likely that she will down one zombie per two or three attacks (2*(1D10+3+2)-6=2D10+4 for a Holy sword wielded with a SB of 3 in a Power Armour against an enemy with TB 6).

 

This might change somewhat with grappling rules, as I haven't looked at them too much.

Righteous Fury is reserved for players and important NPCs, not just your avarage plague zombie. It is, of course, up to each GM, but that's what's recommended by the rules anyway.

[Santiago 37]

Well,

 

Funny you mention this, my pc's (4 of them) were "ambushed" by about 20 zombies at once, the swarmed the pc's attacking in multiples.

Normally such a zombie only has a WS of 20, but if 3 or 4 attack a single pc they each have a WS of 50%...meaning one or two will hit each round.

So 4 times 2 hits is 8 hits, with a 1:10 chance of scoring Fury* (which means a 10+ hit (1d5+4 R)).
* Which I allow for swarm attacks

So the average pc with a TB of 3 and Flak Armour (6 AP against primitive) will sustain one or more wounds.

1 wound is all it takes to infect (50% chance followed by a -10 Toughness test)

 

Conclusion:
1 zombie, not realy a problem
A full fledged outbreak...OH CRAP!!!

 

Oh yeah, an a full fledged outbreak attracts Vile Savants....those are really nasty!!!

[xenobiotica 0]

Even a few plague zombies can still be a serious threat, if only because of the chance of infection: 5% from skin or tissue contact with infected body; 30% from skin or tissue contact with blood or internal tissue; 50% if bit or wounded by infected source; 50% from ingestion of heavily contaminated water; 75% if critically wounded by infected source. Toughness test to resist are at -10 and if you fail that test, your only chance to survive is an exorcism. Either tweek these rules or use plague zombies with real caution.

[Santiago 37]

Fully agree....

A small group can be great threat, though imagen an outbreak at an Imperial Ball, where noone wears armour

[SJE 1]

Santiago said:

Funny you mention this, my pc's (4 of them) were "ambushed" by about 20 zombies at once, the swarmed the pc's attacking in multiples.

Normally such a zombie only has a WS of 20, but if 3 or 4 attack a single pc they each have a WS of 50%...meaning one or two will hit each round.

So 4 times 2 hits is 8 hits, with a 1:10 chance of scoring Fury* (which means a 10+ hit (1d5+4 R)).
* Which I allow for swarm attacks

So the average pc with a TB of 3 and Flak Armour (6 AP against primitive) will sustain one or more wounds.

1 wound is all it takes to infect (50% chance followed by a -10 Toughness test)

 

Conclusion:
1 zombie, not realy a problem
A full fledged outbreak...OH CRAP!!!

 

The difference is the assumption  of an average PC you are making. A Sister in Light power armour with a rating of 7 or so, is going to be immune to the first 17 (14+3) points of primitive damage that the zombie can throw so a single zombie would have roll 10 thrice- a 0.1% chance .  Grappling gets countered by the power armours superior strength. And Pure Faith makes you immune to the disease.

Conclusion- Battle Sisters are immune to plague zombies. Totally.

Even the Arbites in Enforcer Carapace with TB 4 (ignoring first 14 damage) is going to be immune to everything short of a double righteous fury.

 

Since the rest of the party dont leave home outside of a minimum of a Hardened body glove (AP 3 doubled to 6) then they are immune to zombies in anything less than epic numbers since short of a righteous fury, they soak all zombie damage. Once the party block swarm access to them (by plunking the Arbites and Sister in the zombie direction) then I cant see the plague zombies being any kind of threat.

 

As for the situation, its the Scriveners Star adventure, a heretic hunt in which the group will probably go in armoured and armed.

 

SJE

 

 

 

[SJE 1]

One thing that might work - Fydae strain Zombies are listed as having Natural Weapoins (Dead hands and teeth) and given a damage rating of 1d5+ SB. However the Natural Weapon trait on p.330 says the damage should be 1d10 + SB- that at least makes them scary to those in AP 3 armour.

 

SJE

[Zarkhovian_Rhythm 0]

Another thing to keep in mind when dealing with zombies is grappling. Have 10 zombies grapple a character in power armour. If the character gets immobilized have the zombies start to rip and pull at the joints slowly tearing the armor off the character. Not to mention unless they changed it while grappling you can try and do dmg to the character being grappled. This is 1d5-3 + SB and a level of Fatigue. Fatigue adds up quick.

 

[Cynical Cat 26]

Mass grappling and having the zombies start pulling armour off grappled victims.  This won't work too well against powered armour, but a controlling intelligence could then move the immobilized person to some place dangerous such as an acid vat or out a twenty story window.  Really, zombies attacking with bare hands shouldn't be much of a threat to someone wearing 40K powered armour that can easily take hits multi-megajoule las weapons so the Sister should be able to stack up a whole bunch of bodies unless there are other difficulties. 

[xenobiotica 0]

Zarkhovian_Rhythm said:

 

Another thing to keep in mind when dealing with zombies is grappling. Have 10 zombies grapple a character in power armour. If the character gets immobilized have the zombies start to rip and pull at the joints slowly tearing the armor off the character. Not to mention unless they changed it while grappling you can try and do dmg to the character being grappled. This is 1d5-3 + SB and a level of Fatigue. Fatigue adds up quick.

 

 

Even when grappling the plague zombies will inflict their standard unarmed damage, which is 1d5+SB(4), and their hands and teeth don't inflict fatigue since they are Natural Weapons.

EDIT: even if their attacks did cause fatigue, it is only inflicted if, after armour reduction, the damage caused is equal to, or more than, the targets toughness bonus, and if the players are wearing armour that has an AP of only 3 (6 against plague zombies primitive attacks) and a toughness bonus of 3, the zombies would have to roll a 9 or 10 on damage to inflict fatigue. So it won't happen that often anyway.

[Zarkhovian_Rhythm 0]

xenobiotica said:

Zarkhovian_Rhythm said:

 

Another thing to keep in mind when dealing with zombies is grappling. Have 10 zombies grapple a character in power armour. If the character gets immobilized have the zombies start to rip and pull at the joints slowly tearing the armor off the character. Not to mention unless they changed it while grappling you can try and do dmg to the character being grappled. This is 1d5-3 + SB and a level of Fatigue. Fatigue adds up quick.

 

 

Even when grappling the plague zombies will inflict their standard unarmed damage, which is 1d5+SB(4), and their hands and teeth don't inflict fatigue since they are Natural Weapons.

EDIT: even if their attacks did cause fatigue, it is only inflicted if, after armour reduction, the damage caused is equal to, or more than, the targets toughness bonus, and if the players are wearing armour that has an AP of only 3 (6 against plague zombies primitive attacks) and a toughness bonus of 3, the zombies would have to roll a 9 or 10 on damage to inflict fatigue. So it won't happen that often anyway.

Just read the errata... Sorry I didn't catch that the first time about fatigue. 

But I still maintain that a horde of zombies on top of a character even if they're in powered armour is going to take them out of commission. They may not be dmged but they will effectively be stuck under a mountain of bodies. Personally I'd be giving insanity points for that.

[xenobiotica 0]

Zarkhovian_Rhythm said:

Just read the errata... Sorry I didn't catch that the first time about fatigue. 

But I still maintain that a horde of zombies on top of a character even if they're in powered armour is going to take them out of commission. They may not be dmged but they will effectively be stuck under a mountain of bodies. Personally I'd be giving insanity points for that.

Well with a mountain of zombies on top of you, you probably would be pretty imobile, and wih no help from the outside, you'd probably die of thirst or something before the zombies worked their way through your power armour. It's not like the zombies would get bored or tired or anything.

And it is every GM right to deal out insanity points (or corruption for that matter) where he or she see fit. =)

[Cifer 211]

Since the rest of the party dont leave home outside of a minimum of a Hardened body glove (AP 3 doubled to 6) then they are immune to zombies in anything less than epic numbers since short of a righteous fury, they soak all zombie damage. Once the party block swarm access to them (by plunking the Arbites and Sister in the zombie direction) then I cant see the plague zombies being any kind of threat.

"The zombie direction" is lacking a plural s. Make most locations your players venture to have at least three entries for zombies and have fun seeing how your sororitas and arbitrator try to cover them all.

 

Also note that Righteous Fury deals 1D10 extra damage, whether the original weapon dealt 1D5 or 5D10. And your players will need to be near-immune to zombie damage if you plan to put them in more than one or two situations where they have to fight them - for your normal guys (6 AP vs primitive + 3 TB), every single attack by overwhelming numbers has a chance of 1/40 of dealing damage and thus possibly infecting and almost certainly ending them.

 

One thing that might work - Fydae strain Zombies are listed as having Natural Weapoins (Dead hands and teeth) and given a damage rating of 1d5+ SB. However the Natural Weapon trait on p.330 says the damage should be 1d10 + SB- that at least makes them scary to those in AP 3 armour.

Nah, that doesn't make too much sense - after all, they're still human hands and teeth, which usually would inflict even less damage. Further, you run massive risks of losing your party if they can be wounded without Righteous Fury, especially since it sounds like your sister is not of the Orders Dialogous and thus can't Purge the Unclean to save them.

[Zarkhovian_Rhythm 0]

Zombies are the horror equivalent of a natural disaster. They don't have to actually do damage to be effective the horror of watching those who have died stand again and hunger for the flesh of the living can be enough to stop the bravest of acolytes in their tracks. And not to mention my previous statement concerning grappling and immobilized characters. A hardened bodyglove will not prevent zombies from ripping into the character's face, or pulling the armour off to get the goodies inside.

[Nojo509 3]

xenobiotica said:

Even a few plague zombies can still be a serious threat, if only because of the chance of infection: 5% from skin or tissue contact with infected body; 30% from skin or tissue contact with blood or internal tissue; 50% if bit or wounded by infected source; 50% from ingestion of heavily contaminated water; 75% if critically wounded by infected source. Toughness test to resist are at -10 and if you fail that test, your only chance to survive is an exorcism. Either tweek these rules or use plague zombies with real caution.

Or burning a Fate Point. I rule it that if an attack breaches armor, you have the 5% chance to be infected. If it breaches TB as well, that's the 50% chance. One point of damage gives you a 50% chance to have to burn a fate point.

For combats where the players are causing zombie bits to fly around the room (shotguns, chainswords, bolters, grenades...) I give that a 10% to inhale some bad zombie stuff. If they are in containment suits or vacc suits any hit that penetrates the armor also breaks the seal.

However, some players are good at protecting themsleves. Luckily for the GM, the zombies come with a nice boss monster with (potentailly) two lives.

[Cynical Cat 26]

Having reviewed the section on said zombies, they can be directed to use simple weapons and tools by their masters (usually the vile savants).  Holding power armoured hero down while other zombies break out the industrial breacher/jackhammer/whatever is well within their capabilities.

[Zarkhovian_Rhythm 0]

Cynical Cat said:

Having reviewed the section on said zombies, they can be directed to use simple weapons and tools by their masters (usually the vile savants).  Holding power armoured hero down while other zombies break out the industrial breacher/jackhammer/whatever is well within their capabilities.

Zombie Jackhammer to the face. First you crack the shell and then you crack the nuts inside.

[Fideru 0]

Way I see it, when I GM, I try to follow things like laws. For example, I believe it's Hive Sibellus, you're not allowed to wear power armour. I put those obstacles up once in a while, and if not followed, pain happens. Another note, why do they need power armour to interrogate someone? Or full carapace? An excruiator kit sounds about right instead of armour and weapons.

It's the way I see it. And with the Sororita being unable to get diseased, sure, that's fine. Doesn't help everyone else BUT her is infected. Sometimes having the immunity is a horrible horrible thing.

[SJE 1]

Fideru said:

It's the way I see it. And with the Sororita being unable to get diseased, sure, that's fine. Doesn't help everyone else BUT her is infected. Sometimes having the immunity is a horrible horrible thing.

 

Or in purely mechanical terms - sometimes being immune saves you from having to burn 1-3 Fate points (which is what the others might have to do). Angst and Pathos about being the sole surivivor works so much better when the system doesn’t have a "Get out of Death" mechanic to play.

[Cifer 211]

Way I see it, when I GM, I try to follow things like laws. For example, I believe it's Hive Sibellus, you're not allowed to wear power armour. I put those obstacles up once in a while, and if not followed, pain happens. Another note, why do they need power armour to interrogate someone? Or full carapace? An excruiator kit sounds about right instead of armour and weapons.

I'm sure you'd like to explain that to a Sister of Battle...

Also, I doubt there is such a law - Imperial Law is very much about Might Makes Right and the people who can afford power armour generally are the ones with the Might.

[Zarkhovian_Rhythm 0]

Cifer said:

 

Way I see it, when I GM, I try to follow things like laws. For example, I believe it's Hive Sibellus, you're not allowed to wear power armour. I put those obstacles up once in a while, and if not followed, pain happens. Another note, why do they need power armour to interrogate someone? Or full carapace? An excruiator kit sounds about right instead of armour and weapons.

I'm sure you'd like to explain that to a Sister of Battle...

Also, I doubt there is such a law - Imperial Law is very much about Might Makes Right and the people who can afford power armour generally are the ones with the Might.

 

 

PtU Hive Sibellus' laws forbid heavy armor as well as heavier weapons than pistols unless you have the proper credentials and connections to allow it. Which basically means that unless you are a bodyguard of a noble, or openly walking around as an inquisitor, the above armor and weapons are forbidden in the Hive and if you get caught good luck getting out of it.

[Cifer 211]

"Being a Battle Sister or an Arbitrator" sounds suspiciously like "the proper credentials".