Tracking Credits on Paper

[topazdragon 0]

Not really a rules question, but I wouldn't know where else to ask.

 

When you play at a competitive event, do you still use the cardboard chits to manage you and your opponents credits?

 

I come from a Magic background and I learned early on to keep track of life on a sheet of paper. I'm tempted to do that with Netrunner also, but I also see that credits change totals much more often then life changes in Magic.

 

What is everyone's expirience using paper? What about with dice instead of the chits?

 

If you sat across from someone and they were using paper or dice, what would you think?

 

Thanx in advance!

[frybender 56]

Paper would be kind of weird to me since I like to see exactly how much creds my opponent has and I feel like you writing it down would make that hard. Plus like you said yourself creds change way more often then life in magic. Other then that I've seen all kind of ways to keep track of credits. Besides the standard coins that come with the core set I've seen countdown life spiners, dice, poker chips, and home-made tokens. They all work fine. Also with paper you're running the risk of being accused of taking notes which is technically illegal during a tournament.

[Angus Lee 24]

In addition, the credit counters come with the game also serve as advancement counters (by flipping them over), which is a feature that I like.  So I would like to keep using them instead of other methods.

[etherial 62]

Not really a rules question, but I wouldn't know where else to ask.

 

When you play at a competitive event, do you still use the cardboard chits to manage you and your opponents credits?

 

I come from a Magic background and I learned early on to keep track of life on a sheet of paper. I'm tempted to do that with Netrunner also, but I also see that credits change totals much more often then life changes in Magic.

 

What is everyone's expirience using paper? What about with dice instead of the chits?

 

If you sat across from someone and they were using paper or dice, what would you think?

 

Thanx in advance!

I had never seen tracking life/credits/etc. via dice to be legal in a card game tournament until I sat down to my first Netrunner tournament. I only saw one player do it, and he was obnoxious. I basically had to keep his number of credits memorized because he would take his actions too quickly.

[topazdragon 0]

The primary reason that I use paper is that I'm worried about either my opponent trying to slip something by or just one of us forgetting. It seems pretty easy for someone to take two credits when they should take one (or more likely five when they take four)

 

Is this a concern for anyone else?

[CommissarFeesh 458]

Nope. It's just as easy to write down the wrong number as it is to grab the wrong number of tokens. And given all the hidden info corp side, you have to trust your opponent to be making legal plays anyway.

[Khudzlin 734]

he would take his actions too quickly.

 

This is something you can call out an opponent for. At the very least, it is unsportmanlike conduct, possibly outright cheating.

[frybender 56]

While I wouldn't accuse anyone of cheating if someone is going too fast for you you should definitely ask them to slow down. Each individual game can take quite a long time so it's not unusual for people to play fast but they should not be playing so fast that you can't follow their actions.

[nungunz 221]

While I wouldn't accuse anyone of cheating if someone is going too fast for you you should definitely ask them to slow down. Each individual game can take quite a long time so it's not unusual for people to play fast but they should not be playing so fast that you can't follow their actions.

 

In casual or league play, definitely go with this.  But I'd encourage you to learn how to play quickly and efficiently.

 

In tournaments players will not slow down and will want you to speed up.  A typical tournament game should only be 15-20 minutes so you can quickly get to the second game an not have to worry about time limits.

 

But like I said, that's tournament vs. casual.

[markusjarlstig 4]

 

While I wouldn't accuse anyone of cheating if someone is going too fast for you you should definitely ask them to slow down. Each individual game can take quite a long time so it's not unusual for people to play fast but they should not be playing so fast that you can't follow their actions.

 

In casual or league play, definitely go with this.  But I'd encourage you to learn how to play quickly and efficiently.

 

In tournaments players will not slow down and will want you to speed up.  A typical tournament game should only be 15-20 minutes so you can quickly get to the second game an not have to worry about time limits.

 

But like I said, that's tournament vs. casual.

 

 

How are you supposed to use for example False Lead if someone does their turn faster than you can speak? Also you can't tell them to take it slow this turn without making it pretty obvoius you want to use a special paid ability

 

I haven't played any tournament play but if someone didn't even give me a chance to respond or take actions I'm allowed to take, I would feel that is pretty close to cheating.

 

Let's say runner runs into a Neural Katana first click and then follows up with "and then I'll take a credit and two cards", if I want to forfeit False Lead the runner will probably argue that he didn't specify wich order he chose the credits and the cards. Unfair advantage.

Edited September 28, 2013 by markusjarlstig

[topazdragon 0]

Let's say runner runs into a Neural Katana first click and then follows up with "and then I'll take a credit and two cards", if I want to forfeit False Lead the runner will probably argue that he didn't specify wich order he chose the credits and the cards. Unfair advantage.

 

 

In this example the order that he choose is clear, first he got a credit, then a card and then another card. (because thats the order that he said them in).

 

As far as playing quickly or slowly, everyone should be going at a pace that everyone is comfortable with. If your opponent is going to quicly or slowly, tell them, and ask them to adust. Conversely, if your opponent asks you to play quicker or slower, try to accomodate that request without putting yourself out of what you're comfortable with.

 

If your opponent asks you multiple times or you feel that you have to ask your opponent multiple times, it is likely time to call the judge over and tell them about whats going on.

 

On the topic of the credits, I think that it isn't that hard to get the right number of credits most of the time. Even if you're wrong your opponent will correct you and you can back track just a little bit to see where you got it wrong ("I didn't have that Easy Mark you played written down, thanx!) but really keeping track of it that way is to prevent intentional cheating, not so much the unintentional part.

 

On that note, has anyone had any expirience with that? Having an opponent taking more credits from the bank then they should?

[Tzeechel 2]

The tournament rules do not allow note taking and as a TO, I wouldn't allow tracking anything be way of paper because of that.

[Sttyca 20]

 

"I didn't have that Easy Mark you played written down, thanx!"

 

 

this is the part not allowed. you can use any type of counter to track credits, advancement tokens, etc, but taking notes is against the tournament rules. If you do this, you should get out of the habit of writing things down (even credits) as soon as possible if you plan on playing in any serious tournaments.

[Grimwalker 647]

I've played in three tournaments now, and in all of them, my opponents generally seemed to play briskly but also communicate clearly what they were doing. I've seen dice, tokens, poker chips used as counters and I don't generally take issue with them as long as they're visible from across the table. The guy who used the fist-sized D20 for his credits was better than the guy who uses miniature clear dice, though.

 

There's really very few "interrupt" effects like False Lead to worry about--in general the game follows its own kind of pace and once you're experienced, I find it flows very well and it's relatively easy to follow the actions.

[Vox_Dargard 0]

Nope. It's just as easy to write down the wrong number as it is to grab the wrong number of tokens. And given all the hidden info corp side, you have to trust your opponent to be making legal plays anyway.

 

Actually this is precisely the point of tracking credits by paper. If the wrong number gets written down it is very easy to look at the track of changes and indicate what change correlated with what play and whether that number is correct. This is why life totals are tracked that way by many competitive magic players.

 

Further, the corp isn't making any hidden plays with respect to their amount of cash on hand, there is no need to "trust" your opponent in this case.

 

Lastly, and this is something I hope one of the people I know going to worlds will discuss with FFG, there is something to be said for the rules in MtG that at the end of a game any plays that involved secret information must be revealed to demonstrate legality within the rules. This primarily (and maybe only) applied to morph cards, but it was something that resulted in a very specific rule being written in so you didn't have to just trust your opponent was playing within the rules.

[CommissarFeesh 458]

How exactly do you imagine this could be enforced? Example:

Corp plays a piece of ICE facedown. It does not get exposed by the runner. Next turn he installs over it. It was never rezzed. He then uses Jackson Howard to re-shuffle the ICE into R&D.

Was this card really ICE? How can you prove it?

This is what I meant by trusting the corp and hidden information. I realise that credits aren't hidden information, but you still have to trust your opponent not to cheat.

[Sttyca 20]

Bottom line here, guys, is that writing down any information during a Netrunner game is not allowed. This goes for credits, scored points, anything. Use a jumbo D20, use custom tokens, use poker chips, etc. just don't write it down.