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SP Ballistic Weapons and Ammo in mm

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Ballistic Weapons and the Ammo

This is a list I’ve made to try to figure out what mm the ammo is, (too many time my players who are veteran Cyberpunk 2013, 2020 RPGers and military veterans constantly ask me and argue with each other what ammo and what they could do with it) so here I am seeking the wisdom from everyone here.  I based this on the damage that is stated and the ROF also the description.

 

Autogun Basic, 90m, S/3/10, 1d10+3I, 0, 30,

 

The way this reads it sounds like the classic 5.56mm m16 (RT era pic)/colt AR. The wh40k wikia has it as anywhere from Varies between “4 to 15 millimeters wide and 20 to 120 millimeters long” wow that’s so crazy that’s a huge difference in damage potential but ok.

 

Autopistol Pistol, 30m, S/–/6, 1d10+2I, 0, 18,

This I believe is the ubiquitous 9mm UZI/Mac-11/9(which is the 9mm version) or?

 

Hand Cannon Pistol, 35m, S/–/–, 1d10+4I, 2, 5,

This is the classic 45 Magnum I think?  A player of mine said it should be the .454 Casul or The Smith & Wesson Model 500 because those are 5 shot hand cannons.

 

Heavy Stubber Heavy, 120m, –/–/10, 1d10+5 I,3, 200,

This I think is the M1919 Browning is a .30 caliber medium machine gun or at least that’s what it looks like. So 308 or 30-06 round.

 

Naval Pistol (Mars) Pistol, 20m, S/3/–, 1d10+4 I, 0, 6,

The M1911 pistol 45 ACP I feel it would have a longer barrel for the extra power (maybe).

 

Naval Shotcannon Heavy, 40m, S/3/–, 2d10+4 I, 0, 24

I think its missing a Pen Value on this gun. 

Okay after seeing some YouTube vids and wiki-ing I say its 8 gauge or 4 gauge (this is a big shell).  If it was a solid slug It would knock a space marine over (maybe).

 

Pump-Action Shotgun Basic, 30m, S/–/–, 1d10+4 I, 0, 8

12 gauge, this is the only one that was easy.

 

Shotgun Basic, 30m, S/–/–, 1d10+4 I, 0, 2

Yes this is still 12 gauge

 

Shotgun Pistol Pistol, 10m, S/–/–, 1d10+4 I, 0, 1

Yea 12 gauge

 

Stub Automatic                 Pistol, 30m, S/3/–, 1d10+3 I, 0, 9

9mm again

 

Stub Revolver Pistol, 30m, S/–/–, 1d10+3 I, 0, 6

Ok this one is maybe a 9mm (I’m trying to be consistent)

 

Assault Cannon Heavy, 120m, –/–/10, 3d10+5 I, 5 200

Ok these stats are from DH IH, and they very vague on the description so according to me ill make it the GAU-19/A (yeah unfortunately this is a three barreled Gatling gun) but it still guaranteed to turn a space marine into fine mist and hands sized chunks of armor.

 

Autocannon Heavy, 300m, S/2/5, 4d10+5 I, 4, 20

For this one I went by weight of the gun, so I picked the 20mm even thought a lot of pictures it looks like a Browning .50 Caliber Machine Gun then again we could say it looks like The Oerlikon 20 mm cannon.

And finally the magic and heart ache happens

 

Dreadnought Assault Cannon, Range, 150m, –/–/10, 3d10+6 I, 6, 400

So according to the damage this would be a 50cal out of a very long barrel, but I totally disagree with the DW ROB write up, so here my version of the according to all the pictures we seen and the PC game and the size of the shells that it spites out and some YouTube videos.

 

Dreadnought Assault Cannon Range 250m, –/–/10, 5d10+6 I, 8, 400, Storm/Tearing/Blast 3

Based on The General Electric GAU-8/A Avenger is a 30 mm hydraulically driven seven-barrel Gatling-type cannon firing PGU-14/B API Armor Piercing Incendiary (DU) a very potent round.  So it would turn a space marine in terminator armor into dust and paste in less than 1 second. 

 

Ok so I also did this so I can make other guns with those damage values as a base, then you can figure out what other weapons can make with different kinds of ammo and have it make sense(at least to stick in the mud military vets role players nah JK love those vets). 

 

  Most of my players hate the Lasgun (although they like las pistols (go figure) they think it’s pretty weak, I told them that’s its the most common not the greatest and besides how can you hate the recharging in the sun thing.

 

For example

 

Sniper Rifle (based on M14)

M14 Rifle, 150m, S/3/7, 1d10+5 I, 3, 20

You could wiki the rest oh and super reliable.

 

Oh and if this was already done sorry and can you post the other thread? (i was using the search feature but got bored).

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The only things we 'know' from various bits of Forge World, Black Library, Games Workshop and Fantasy Flight publications:

 

Bolt Round: '75 cal' (i.e. 0.75")

Astartes/Angelus Bolt Round: 'Hundred Cal' (i.e. 1")

 

Accatran-Pattern Autogun (the things the Vraksian militia use): 8.75mm

There's also a calibre for the autopistol in the same image plate but I can't remember what it is.

 

Hand Cannon: The only make we have listed - the Tranter - is a 0.6 calibre, rather than a 0.45 or 0.50. It does, however, hit harder than a standard handcannon, so that is reasonable for 'normal' handcannons.

 

The 'autocannon' bracket covers everything from a fifty cal up to a non-rotary 30mm centreline on a tank, fighter or attack helicopter. I don't think you can make any real sweeping statement aside from 'you're hit, you're dead'.

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Hi,

 

I would say the pistol yielding 1d10+3 I are .45 and the autopistol (1d10+2 I) is 9mm

Heavy Stubber would be a 30 of 50 cal and the autocannon is definately at least 20mm

S.

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This is Warhammer 40k. Everything's over the top. The standard lasgun will "vaporize half an unarmored human body." The only reason they seem weak is because everyone has super power armor or is a bio-terror ork or tyranid. Even if you're talking about the somewhat less lethal game mechanics 1d10+3 damage has about a 50% chance of killing your average colonist.

 

Kick everything up a notch.

 

In real world terms I'd guess even the standard stub revolver would be a good .44 magnum. Call the autopistol a 10mm AE or .45, the autogun at least a nice long 7.62, and the hand cannon's a big bear .50 magnum.

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Autogun Basic, 90m, S/3/10, 1d10+3I, 0, 30,

 

The way this reads it sounds like the classic 5.56mm m16 (RT era pic)/colt AR. The wh40k wikia has it as anywhere from Varies between “4 to 15 millimeters wide and 20 to 120 millimeters long” wow that’s so crazy that’s a huge difference in damage potential but ok.

 

As per rules, autoguns from 1-st edition Dark Heresy, Death Watch and Rogue Trader look more in line with real world AKM/AKMS classic, sporting 30 rounds magazines of 7,62mm rounds and weighting about 3,7-3,8 kg loaded.

However, this seem changed in Only War and 2-nd edition Dark Heresy, bringing them more in line with real world FN FAL/G3 battle rifles using full power cartridge.

PS: However, as autoguns and autopistols are non-STC design (developed locally, often without any Adeptus Mechanicus assistance at all), they can vary wildly from one planet to another.

Accatran-Pattern Autogun (the things the Vraksian militia use): 8.75mm

 

These seem rather close to real-world's Browning Automatic Rifle, M1918, considering the rifle being chambered for modern iteration of 7.62x63mm (.30-06) rounds. It's heavy and powerful.

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I command you to rise from the dead and obey me!

 

Meh, I never bother with this stuff.  If a player wants to know, I want to know why they want to know...something to do with herrings and Denmark, I suspect.

 

8mm Mausers?  Bah.  I think it's all cartridgeless stuff regardless of the silly comic book representations.  If you can have .75 cal. self-contained APDSFS-DPU (that's armor-piercing fin-stablized discarding-sabot depleted-uranium for you virgins out there) with vectored thrust, then you can have caseless ammo.

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I command you to rise from the dead and obey me!

 

Meh, I never bother with this stuff.  If a player wants to know, I want to know why they want to know...something to do with herrings and Denmark, I suspect.

 

8mm Mausers?  Bah.  I think it's all cartridgeless stuff regardless of the silly comic book representations.  If you can have .75 cal. self-contained APDSFS-DPU (that's armor-piercing fin-stablized discarding-sabot depleted-uranium for you virgins out there) with vectored thrust, then you can have caseless ammo.

Also, even if you're still using casings (because looks cool) the propellant may still be different.  The same weight ball going faster still hits harder.  The propellent used could very dramatically between worlds.

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 I think it's all cartridgeless stuff regardless of the silly comic book representations

 

Well, nothing in the lore is against it. As per WH40K: wargear it was even stated that "modern" (for the 41-st millenium) autoguns and autopistols indeed use caseless munitions, while stubbers use cased munitions. Since then autoguns had been cut out of Imperial Guard's typical arsenals, but nothing in the canon lore directly abrogated this statement.

However, one question is a bit confusing for me - are heavy stubbers from Rogue Trader and Only War RPGs more akin to real-world 12,7mm (.50 cal) heavy machineguns (like an M2HB or "Kord" HMG), or the 7,62mm GPMGs (like, say, FN MAG or PKP "Pecheneg")? If the latter, why are they so heavy in terms of mass....

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A bit of off-topic - but is it against the lore to include a master-crafted bolt-pistol outfitted with genetic lock, limiting it's use to a single person (like a rogue trader or inquistior)? Or this is "too high tech and cyberpunk style" for 40K universe?

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Meh, I never bother with this stuff.  If a player wants to know, I want to know why they want to know...something to do with herrings and Denmark, I suspect.

 

Well, finally such question boils down to "would an AK-47/H&K G36/M-4/whatever assault rifle your country's army uses as a standard ifantry service rifle  damage/kill a Space Marine/Chaos Space Marine clad in power armour?" XD

PS - With the possible answer could be shown here 

there are locks like that in Hostile Acquisitions pg 57 

 

Just one detail - when saying about genetic lock on a bolt pistol, I implied not an actual lock, but a sophisticated buit-in mechanism that let the gun to recognise it's wielder and determine wherever he is a valid user or not. It the latter - that the "lock" locks the trigger or initiate self-destruct/electric discharge on the handle. 

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Aye Ghost, that exists in HA, theres an even better version that uses Arcane methods.

 

A Master-Crafted Bolt Pistol with Gene Lock just sounds like a low tier weapon to someone like a Rogue Trader, a paranoid one perhaps.

 

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So, back to the topic. What do we know "for sure"

1) Agripinaa-pattern autogun. 

It fires 8,25mm long rounds, reaching muzzle velocities of 825m/sec on 540mm barrell. This would give the round capabilites something in between 7,92x57mm Mauser (reaching up to 820 m/sec on 600mm barrell with 12.1 gramm bullet) and 8,6x63mm (.338 Norma Magnum) (reaching velocity of 807m/sec on 610mm barrell, bullet's mass apparently still classified...).

However, the cartridge is stated to be "oversized for autoguns", prompting the gun itself to be rather heavy (6.2 kg).

So, my guess is that "vanilla" autoguns mentioned in the Core Rulebook fire something of equal to or slightly more powerful than 7,62x51mm NATO round, making an autogun an equivalent of real-life's FN FAL or G3 battle rilfes.

2) Unknown pattern man-portable heavy stubber from Vraks.

Fires the same 8.25mm long round as Agripinaa-pattern autogun. However, this model from Vraks weights only 7.8 kg w\o ammo, while "vanilla" heavy stubber from Core Rulebook weights a staggering 35 kg.

Again, my guess - "vanilla" heavy stubber is most likely a heavy macnhinegun, just like real-world 6P50 "Kord", Browning M2 or DShK.

3) Tranter hand-cannon.

Directly stated in "Inquisitor's Handbook" to be chambered for .54 caliber rounds, that equals roughly 13,7mm.

4) .75 caliber, that equals 19,05mm is stated to be the caliber for "human-adapted" bolter and bolt-pistols. Since the bolter rounds are in fact not mere solid slug, but AP-HE (armour piercing-high explosive) rocket-assisted shells, set to explode inside the target's body sucessful shots tend to be extremely lethatl, if the charge go off as intended.

5) .998 caliber, that equals 25,35mm is stated to be the caliber for Astartes-class bolters, bolt-pistols and for Angelus carbines. Bolter rounds are still AP-HE rocket-assisted shells (of even greater capability) and shells, fired from Astartes-class bolter are said to be able to accelerate up to 1000 m/sec after their rocket motor finished it's burn. If that's true, than Astartes-class bolt weapons can begin to mathc the capabilies of artillery pieces like our, Russian, ZU-23 (23mm cal) or  Swiss Oerlikon 20mm cannon. 

Edited by Terran Ghost

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I'm still trying to figure out if you want to redefine the damage of these weapons.  I see a lot of kinetic energy (velocity and mass) talk, and the weight of weapons (most of which is explained by looking at magazine size).  And the maybe-not-so-obvious question is, "Why?"  Are you trying to develop new types of ammo for your game?  New weapons?  Sometimes the "why" of a conversation leads to more answers.

 

I spend what I feel is too much time trying to fix broken parts of the system to meddle with the minutiae.  I try to spend most of my time on plots, monkey wrenches, and NPC personalities (the bridge crew probably numbers in the hundreds and how many shifts of pilots are there really?).  My players are usually trying to buy weapons en masse and rarely ask questions concerning tech functions.  When they do, we have a pretty good guy playing the Explorator who jumps in with a plausibly ridiculous religious explanation for most tech questions ("During the third verse of the prayer, the cantor needs to enter the proper password...I mean liturgy.").

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And the maybe-not-so-obvious question is, "Why?"  Are you trying to develop new types of ammo for your game?  New weapons?  Sometimes the "why" of a conversation leads to more answers.

 

Well, I'm not the topicstarter, but I'll try to answer, the idea's was mostly to add new in-universe lore, not to change the game stats (they are for generic "vanilla" weapons and slight variations in technical specs do not need to be made into amedments for the game's rules).

However, one particular model may be added.

 

Agripinaa-pattern autogun, 100m, 1d10+3I, S/3/8, 2, 30, mass - 6,2 kg, availability - Rare. 

Edited by Terran Ghost

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It is by will alone that I realize that real-world means jack-**** in 40K.

Neither by physics does combat occur, nor by caliber does the ammunition acquire speed.

The rulebooks acquire smudges, the smudges become a warning.

It is by will alone that I realize that real-world means jack-**** in 40K.

Edited by Egyptoid
Errant Knight and Nameless2all like this

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Egyptoid

LOL XD)) However, discussions like "hey, Leman Russ tank sucks, T-72(80,84,90)/Leopard-2/Challenger/whatever main battle tank your country's army uses would definetely pwn a "Leman Russ" in a single combat" tend to never really die, they just keep popping up some times...

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I'd be surprised if after however so many years (today is 2015 to m41); Id doubt that we'd still be producing 9mm, .45 acp, or whatever - if anything theese modern day standards "stop" where they are at due to practical wielding, I did read in the post above someone mentioning new propellant - umm yeah, totally.

 

A human sized Bolter Round (as per this forum) is .75 - aint that like a D Battery?!

 

I used to play with M80s alot when I was young - by those dimensions you're dealing with something on par with a shotgun shell; compared to a "d-battery" its anemic and sorely outclassed by the mass alone of said Bolter Round...

 

Now explosives staged by magnitude - just simply doubling the size does equate to double he punch - rather the mathematics behind such science would indicate a sharp increase by "folds" of energy output... (x to the power of y - is the gist)

 

Considering factors like recoil, the physical displacement (especially in a tunnel or small room), etc - I would guess was "fixed" with alternative propellants (again all of this is purely fictional, just saying)

 

Again I'm not disagreeing - rather I'd be surprised if the Imperium was still stamping out shells made by 20-century corporations is all (sounds more along the lines of Cyberpunk or Shadowrun rather)

 

Very cool discussion

 

Stay GAMING

Morbid

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Id doubt that we'd still be producing 9mm, .45 acp, or whatever - if anything theese modern day standards "stop" where they are at due to practical wielding, I did read in the post above someone mentioning new propellant - umm yeah, totally.

 

For me - that's too highly unlikely, for several reasons.

First of all, Age of Technology (refferred either as "Dark" by general populations or as "Golden" by the Adeptus Mechanicus) began in 15-th millenium and now we are in the beginning of 3-rd millenium. So we have a staggering almost 12 millenia of times. For example, entire history of modern human civilisation is about 8 millenia of timespan from ancien Mesopotamia and Egypt to modern times, and during that timespan technology progressed from Bronze Age to spaceflight, computers and nuclear power. 

Second, traditional handheld firearms (like autoguns or stub-revolvers) are most likely fell out of use during Age of Technology, because being replaced either by STC-design ubitiquos lasguns or by more high-tech weapons like plasma guns or volkite weapons.

 

However, than we take canon data, most of the specifically mentioned calibers and cartridges are not the ones we have today. Once again, what was mentioned specifically:

* 8,25mm long -  rifle cartridge reminiscent of IRL 7,92x57mm Mauser (however, some more powerful) - used in GPMGs (lighter models of "heavy stubbers") and sometimes automatic rifles (autoguns)

* 12-th gauge (18,5mm) - shotgun shell, ironically this one have IRL direct analogues

* .54 caliber (13,7mm) - heavy pistol cartridge, used in Trantor hand cannon

* .75 caliber (19,05mm) - boter round for "human-adapted" bolters and bolt pistols

* .998 caliber (25,35mm) - bolter round for Astartes-class bolters and bolt pistols, as well as Angelus bolt carbines.

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