Ork bikers really can't hit, + suppressive fire

[bogi_khaosa 267]

OK 3 questions.

 

Shooting takes a half action, and moving takes a half action. So ork bikers can't fire their dakka guns if they move full speed? That's not very orky.

 

Second and maybe more importantly.

 

They can't hit. I mean, at all. Let's say short range here. BS26 + 10 (short range) = 36 - 10 (assuming they moved) - 10 (full auto; they can only fire full auto) = 16%.

 

Is this right? OK they can hit vehicles.

 

Somewhat relatedly: If you fire Suppressive Fire, is the -20 to hit again adjusted for things like range and target size? If so, what happens if the things in the targeted area are of different sizes?

 

Thanks!

[venkelos 568]

Kinda fits. I've read a real-book version of the Uplifting Primer a friend of mine bought, and it is full of reverse-heresy, with every item the Imperium uses touted as amazing, and all of the xenos stuff being downplayed as garbage (how else will you persuade Guardsmen wearing cardboard armor who lost track of their tanks to field against untouchable Eldar?), but I can totally believe that when it says no Guardsman has EVER fallen in battle due to ballistic fire from an Ork gun, they actually knew what they were talking about; Orks Ballistic Skill is so bad, they can barely shoot the air when they spray-fire straight up, for fun.

 

Of course, mechanically, they usually made things more balanced than the TT BS 2 the best Orks have, so they SHOULD be able to hit. Either maybe the Rough Riders shouldn't be too much more accurate or, to my liking, maybe the Ork bikers are just supposed to have auto-stabilized, or something similar, and get the benefit of counting as stationary; their bikes are large and wide, and I could almost believe it. Beyond that, I'd have to page through stuff more.

[bogi_khaosa 267]

Hmmm I seem to recollect that in Rogue Trader the Ork bikes do have some kind of rule letting them fire when moving full speed.

[Amaimon 132]

Do they have twin-linked? In TT they have TL-dakka guns. That +10 to hit might help.

 

I agree that orks are terrible with their BS. The most usefull thing they can do, is to pin their enemies, so they can get stuck in. Also burna boys and stikkbombs. Also, normal guardsmen when hit by deffgun/dakkagun/big shoota is in very bad shape.

[LuciusT 128]

Do they have twin-linked? In TT they have TL-dakka guns. That +10 to hit might help.

 

 

They are twin linked, according to the warbike writeup. That actually gives them a +20 to hit... for a 36% chance of hitting, which funnily enough roughly matches their 2 in 6 chance to hit on the table top.

[bogi_khaosa 267]

I don't remember them being twin-linked, although the buggies are.

 

Doesn't twin-linked give either a +10 or an extrra hit in Only War, not a +20 and a possible extra hit?

Edited September 23, 2013 by bogi_khaosa

[LuciusT 128]

Huh, you're right, they aren't. In my haste I was looking at the Buggy. They should be, however because they are on the table top. There's something for the next errata. 

 

As for Twin Linked: A weapon with the Twin-linked Quality gains a +20 to hit when fired and uses twice as much ammunition. In addition, the weapon scores one additional hit if the attack roll succeeds by two or more Degrees of Success. (page 173) 

[bogi_khaosa 267]

Hey I am really glad that you caught that. I thought that OW used the same rule for twin-linked as BC does -- or maybe, like Scatter, this is something they didn't carry over by accident?

 

Yes that makes them much more viable.

Edited September 23, 2013 by bogi_khaosa

[Amaimon 132]

Wooow TL is as awesome as it was in DH. That's great news. Thanks. I love this system, I'm glad that DH2 will be based on this. (Hope they fix natural armour, and I dont have to buy any other rpg).

[bogi_khaosa 267]

Can anybody enlighten me as to my suppressive fire question?

[bogi_khaosa 267]

If nobody addresses my suppressing fire question, I will stalk you day and night, making your lives and those of your loved ones a living hell.

[Myrion 528]

Nobody can, because the rule is written very unclearly.

I can see arguments for both cases.

 

No modifiers at all gives you a 10-30% 'pure luck' chance to hit, depending on how good you are at shooting in the first place. That doesn't seem too good to be true, and since pinning is extremely powerful, giving it a low chance of actual damage gives it a nice drawback without ignoring that you are actually shooting deadly shtuff.

 

All modifiers would keep it the same often, worse rarely and sometimes slightly better. In my experience, at least, where combat is mostly at normal or short range.

I'd personally go with size modifiers thusly:

If there are things with different size modifiers, apply the most beneficial. Any shots hit that target, until you've had enough degrees of success to hit the other targets, at which point the normal rule takes over. So if you need to hit 40 to hit the big target and 20 to hit the others, your full-auto roll of 20 means two hits on the big target (30&40) and one elsewhere.

But ofc that's also a houserule.

[bogi_khaosa 267]

After thinking about it, I think it must be WITH additional modifiers, be cause otherwise you get absurdities like havingthe same chace to hit small cats at 400 meters as you do to huit a tank at point-blank.

 

It still has the additional disadvantages of 1) getting fewer hits than full auto and 2) Not being able to get these all on one target, assuming that there are more than one, and 3) endangering any of your buddies who might be in the way.

Edited September 29, 2013 by bogi_khaosa