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Daveydavedave

A Tip on List Building Strategy

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To be honest, I am not sure that having Kyle be the first priority target is really such a bad thing.  He has 2 agility, and likely a pile of Focus tokens to use against each and every attack.  He isn't super tough, but he is much harder to focus down than any of your other ships that have only a single Focus token to use for defense and/or only 1 agility.

 

Not really true. First off, he's already given away one of his focus tokens at the start of combat, or else he's not doing his job. Second, at PS 6, there's a pretty good chance he's already fired, and used up a second token, by the time he's attacked.

So the only situation in which I see this statement being true is where he both has Moldy Crow AND has been able to avoid combat for one or more turns. At which point, if he's contributing NOTHING but his support ability, I really start to wonder again if he's worth the points.

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When you take Kyle, you generally want to delay the initial clash, giving yourself time to stack up some tokens.  You could be doing 1 straight maneuvers to make this happen.  You should have somewhere between 2 and 4 by the time you are getting shot at.

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Interesting lists ForceM.  The first one is very interesting... I want to see a report of how it played.

 

The offensive list is very powerful.  I'm not entirely sure of who I would kill first. Target confusion is just as good as defensive bonuses sometimes.  My instinct is to leave Ten Numb for last.  I think Wedge would have to die first.  Jan and Ten are a very powerful combo.

 

I like both lists, well done.

In fact i didn't get to play any of the 2 yet, but it's on my schedule...

I tried to think out of the box here, because i have played Biggs in a lot of lists recently and although he is very reliable in my games, i wanted for once to make the enemy take the difficult decision what to shoot first and not dictate it by playing Biggs.

I have to give credit to another thread here too, that showed up the Ibtisam with elusiveness and Sensor Jammer combo. It's a deceptively easy target but you make the enemy reroll a die, you can reroll a die, and you transform a hit into a focus. Target locking against him is therefore a very bad idea.

I also wanted to show you that i am not only into blaster turret lists only. Thank you XD

Edited by ForceM

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I like the idea of Roark with a bunch of guys with Swarm Tactics, similar to the Vader + Obsidians squads that saw favor around the time of the kessel run

 

Han Shoots Second (100 points)

Roark Garnet

-Blaster Turret

-Recon Specialist

 

Ibtisam

-Swarm Tactics

-Fire Control System

 

Green Squadron Pilot

-Swam Tactics

 

Green Squadron Pilot

-Swam Tactics

 

The whole list shoots at PS 12, WELL before Han even with VI can take a shot. Roark can shoot his PS12 out to range three, while the A-wings make sure it gets to Ibtisam and can even make it back to Roark, for 2 3-dice shots and 2 2-dice shots. Roark keeps a defensive focus as well as his offensive spending for the turret, and Ibtisam will hit pretty reliably with her target locks

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OP, I don't believe Rookie Pilot can take marksmanship but I get the jist of what you are saying.  One of my favorite combos on the empire side is Soontir Fel with Push the limit and Stealth Generator.  He is generally very hard to hit and is quite a pain in the but that can not be shaken off your tail easily.  At the same time though with only 3 hull and no shields one unlucky round of dice can completely nullify him.

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Haha yes i like that Daisy Chain list. Okay it's the same principle as the imperial one with Obsidian squadron, except this one is at PS 12. The A-Wings are not the biggest threats but this sounds extremely fun.

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==================[unnamed Squadron]================== Click to change squadron details 98 points Pilots------ Kyle Katarn (37)HWK-290 (21), Veteran Instincts (1), Blaster Turret (4), Chewbacca (4), Moldy Crow (3), Shield Upgrade (4) Luke Skywalker (37)X-Wing (28), R2-D2 (4), Draw Their Fire (1), Shield Upgrade (4) Blue Squadron Pilot (24)B-Wing (22), Fire-Control System (2)

Hmm.  This could be very solid.  Offensively its not bad, but defensively its beast mode.  Let us know if you test it. This is exactly the kind of list I was referring to in my OP.  Its difficult to pick apart, and it has some great synergies.

I ran a quick mock play and the game ended with luke full shields kyle no shields full hull. The bwing died fast but dice hated him anyway. It was against a fettigator squad

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Haha yes i like that Daisy Chain list. Okay it's the same principle as the imperial one with Obsidian squadron, except this one is at PS 12. The A-Wings are not the biggest threats but this sounds extremely fun.

One of my favorite things about it is the PS 3 pilots can run traffic against a lot of lists, and then shoot way before anything else regardless. It still works somewhat when Roark eats it, since Ibtisam is still PS6, which isn't bad and doubles the GSP's skill for their shooting priority

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OP, I don't believe Rookie Pilot can take marksmanship but I get the jist of what you are saying.  One of my favorite combos on the empire side is Soontir Fel with Push the limit and Stealth Generator.  He is generally very hard to hit and is quite a pain in the but that can not be shaken off your tail easily.  At the same time though with only 3 hull and no shields one unlucky round of dice can completely nullify him.

Right you are.  Rookie cannot take elite upgrades.  But, like you said, you get the gist of what I was trying to say by the example (even though it was an illegal list lol).

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I wonder if Jan Ors' best use would be in an A-Wing heavy list?  They are very good ships in every way except their lack of firepower, and her ability works at far enough range to make it possible to get it off.  You would need to put some points into her suvivability, however.

 

My first draft:

Jan Ors (Ion Turret, Flight Instructor) : 34

3 x Green Squadron PIlots (PTL) : 22 x 3 = 66

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Well i think Jan works better with pilots that already have some serious punch. Like Wdge or Ten Numb. You can only buff one per turn anyway, might as well be someone that can kill a Tie per turn then! That way nobody shoots Ors too.

Same philosophy as with Expose. You can take it on an A-Wing, but i's just better on ships that already have 3 attack dice anyway.

Edited by ForceM

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My list with Jan is:

 

27-Jan w/ Squad Leader

27-Green A-wing with PTL and Assault Missiles

21-Prototype A-wing with Concussion Missiles

25-Blue B-Wing with Advanced Sensors

 

Jan gives you 5 dice missiles and lets you target lock at skill 8, while the first a-wing can focus and evade.  The 2nd A-wing can be switched to assault missiles as well if you give up advanced sensors on the b-wing.

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I wonder if Jan Ors' best use would be in an A-Wing heavy list?  They are very good ships in every way except their lack of firepower, and her ability works at far enough range to make it possible to get it off.  You would need to put some points into her suvivability, however.

 

My first draft:

Jan Ors (Ion Turret, Flight Instructor) : 34

3 x Green Squadron PIlots (PTL) : 22 x 3 = 66

This is a list I could get into.  PtL A-Wings are wicked fun. 

Two potential problems:

 

1. Jan needs protection - is the flight instructor sufficient?

2. Jan can only donate one die a turn (must be unstressed and take a stress token to give +1 atk)

 

What about (and I realize this isnt even close to the same list anymore, but you inspired me):

Lando + Nien Numb (sweaty pancakes) 45

Jan Ors + blaster turret + chewbacca crew 33

Green Sq + PtL 22

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I had an idea earlier today I'd also like some feedback on, and is relevant due to the Ibtisam/sensors/PTL discussion:

 

Killteam Alpha

 

Wedge Antilles (29)

-?????????? (4)

 

Ten Numb (31)

-Fire Control System (2)

 

Ibtisam (28)

-Push the Limit (3)

-Advanced Sensors (3)

 

The issue I'm having is what to do with my last 4 points. I don't really wanna fly Wedge naked, especially in this list where he's the soft, juicy target. I was thinking R2D2, but he might not survive long enough to make good use of recovery. Then I figured shield upgrade, but that's only 1 extra shield, where if he lives he'd get 2-3 out of R2. Then I figured go punchier and threw a proton torp on him, but quickly removed it as I've never had great success with X-wing torpedoes. VI + Stealth is a thought, as then he'd shoot first over almost everything and have a TIE's defense to start, but one bad roll and there goes the stealth...

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Well i think Jan works better with pilots that already have some serious punch. Like Wdge or Ten Numb. You can only buff one per turn anyway, might as well be someone that can kill a Tie per turn then! That way nobody shoots Ors too.

Same philosophy as with Expose. You can take it on an A-Wing, but i's just better on ships that already have 3 attack dice anyway.

It's true that stacking attack upgrades is exponentially beneficial.  Opposing the stacking theory is the utility theory: if I have more options with each ship, then I can use them for any purpose and therefore instead of having hot and cold turns, I will have options in any circumstance to make the most of a turn.  Don't forget, Wedge with Expose and Jan Ors bonus attack and a target lock and a focus is gonna cause faces to melt, unless... you aren't aiming at anything, or... you're dead.

 

 Expose on an A-Wing is really interesting because the difference between 2 attack dice and 3 is MASSIVE.  A-Wings are also more capable of avoiding firing arcs than X-Wings, and therefore will potentially have more turns of shooting without being an eligible target themselves. Also, A-Wings have 3 defense dice and therefore can more readily afford to lose one in favor of an attack die.  Its like transforming an A-Wing into an X-Wing after you have positioned it properly.

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I had an idea earlier today I'd also like some feedback on, and is relevant due to the Ibtisam/sensors/PTL discussion:

Killteam Alpha

Wedge Antilles (29)

-?????????? (4)

Ten Numb (31)

-Fire Control System (2)

Ibtisam (28)

-Push the Limit (3)

-Advanced Sensors (3)

The issue I'm having is what to do with my last 4 points. I don't really wanna fly Wedge naked, especially in this list where he's the soft, juicy target. I was thinking R2D2, but he might not survive long enough to make good use of recovery. Then I figured shield upgrade, but that's only 1 extra shield, where if he lives he'd get 2-3 out of R2. Then I figured go punchier and threw a proton torp on him, but quickly removed it as I've never had great success with X-wing torpedoes. VI + Stealth is a thought, as then he'd shoot first over almost everything and have a TIE's defense to start, but one bad roll and there goes the stealth...

I would go classic Push the limit + R2 in that case. TL for offense, Focus for defense, get rid of stress with R2 every turn. Edited by ForceM

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The math for expose is bad, because you lose the other actions.  Also, you have to buy expose for each A-Wing, but only get to use it on the A-Wings that are in position.

 

Jan Ors' ability, on the other hand, could consistently go to the A-Wing who has managed to put himself at range 1 of a target, and used PtL to get Focus and Target Lock.  4 dice, TL and Focus from one A-Wing every turn could cause quite a mess.

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...it's not a real spam list, it's very synergetic actually.

Dutch with ion turret

Gold Y-Wing with blaster turret x2

Kyle with recon specialist and blaster turret

Idk if that was 100 points exactly as i don't have the list on me but if not insert a few R2 units on some of the Y-Wings.

This overcomes some of the blaster turrets problems as you can fire all 3 every turn and 2 of them boosted with a target lock too.

Granted it has only 3 blaster turets but it's far from being a bad list. The amount of shots you can dodge with this is just amazing. The firepower is decent and no matter what goes down first, you still have a chance.

3 B-Wing lists are also not really foolishness. B- Wings can support each other pretty well and the firepower is okay. Probably though you are better served with a mix of X and B-Wings.

You know just don't dismiss lists as rubbish so fast because someone will find a good use for them and then everybody will suddenly fly it after 2-3 tournament victories.

This list is porky pig spam! You MUST be joking?? It's blaster turret spam to the core! All you've done is take an all hawk list and sub all but one out for Y-Wings with the same loadout, and sub one blaster for an ion. It's horrible because each ship relies on the same mechanic (granted, the Y-Wings vastly improve the list over taking multiple hawks). What happens if I shoot you from range 3? You have horrible maneuverability. Dutch is a great choice, but his support team is crap. Try again. This list illustrates EXACTLY what I was talking about avoiding.

3 B-Wings with autoblaster forces you to try and get range 1 shots with all of your super slow ships. They have very poor stress management. They can't cover each others weaknesses. How is this going to be a tournament winning list?? B-Wings are probably most effective as singles in a list. 2 is okay, 3 is pretty terrible unless someone can kit them in a way I am not seeing.

 

 

I haven't read the entire thread so I'm sorry if this has been addressed but that list is most definitely not spam. It's highly specialized but it's not spam. Spam is throwing a bunch of the same things at a target and hoping to overwhelm it with whatever you picked. This is a well thought out list that focuses on eliminating the key weakness of the blaster turret. The maneuverability is low but with 360 arcs that's not so bad. Even at range three two die isn't awful so range issues, while existing, won't kill you on their own. The core weakness of the build is that it is brittle and if Dutch or Kyle drops you're squad is going to lose about 40% effectiveness since you're losing a gun and crippling the accuracy of another. This is always a risk with support lists though.

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So I've just gotten back into X-wing in the past couple weeks, I've actually never used a YT-1300, B-wing or HWK before (though I will have them all within a few days) so I have no idea how this will go but it does seem to have some similarities to some things being mentioned here.

Can someone let me know if this has any potential?

44 Chewbacca (42) + Draw Their Fire (2)

29 Blue Squadron B-wing (22) + Heavy Laser Cannons (7)

27 Jan Ors (25) + Swarm Tactics (2)

99

I'm not sure how long Jan can live even w/ Chewie drawing fire. My thought was the B-wing getting 5 attack dice from range 2-3 w/ HLC or 5 with the primary weapon at 1. I thought Swarm Tactics on Jan made sense so the B-wing (or Chewie) can shoot w/ PS8 helps too.

Any good or do I have a lot of work to do w/ list building?

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On my first read, I thought running Jan Ors without some sort of turret upgrade was a bad idea.  Once Chewie and your Blue Squadron are gone, she will be pretty weak.  She seems like a lot of points to upgrade their firepower by one die.

 

On the other hand, there is something to be said for concentrated firepower and Chewie and your Blue will provide that in spades.  Combined with swarm tactics, they may be extremely painful.  Also, that 1 die attack is not completely useless.  It can ping away at low agility targets and get the occasional Range 1 attack in for adequate damage.

 

Also, Chewie is a beast to kill, and DtF makes him either the first target or very good at extending the life of whichever of his squadmates your opponent tries to focus down.  When the ship your opponent wants to kill first is the toughest and most maneuverable ship on your list, that is a win for squad building.

 

Finally, Jan with zero upgrades becomes the clear winner for "last ship I shoot at".  Which is exactly what you want your support ship to be.

 

This list may work much better than the sum of its parts.  Give it a go, let us know how it works out.  At the very least, whatever shortcomings it has are not too obvious.

Edited by KineticOperator

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List 2:

 

33 points
Wedge Antilles
R2 Astromech, Marksmanship
31 points
Jan Ors
Ion Cannon Turret, Nien Nunb
36 points
Ten Numb
Fire-Control System, Marksmanship

 

 

 

 

Interesting lists ForceM.  The first one is very interesting... I want to see a report of how it played.

 

The offensive list is very powerful.  I'm not entirely sure of who I would kill first. Target confusion is just as good as defensive bonuses sometimes.  My instinct is to leave Ten Numb for last.  I think Wedge would have to die first.  Jan and Ten are a very powerful combo.

 

I like both lists, well done.

 

I don't know about saving Ten for last... If I have shields early on, Ten is scary, but not  terrifying. In the late game when my shields are gone and I can't cancel his crit results -- yeah, that's going to hurt more than Wedge, I think.

Of course, if I had an ion cannon turret on my squad I would definitely save Ten for last, because he won't be shooting anybody once I start dropping the ion token.

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