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eagletsi111

Is the Blaster Turret near useless now?

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Also i don't get why people keep saying that a HWK or even turret spam list are intendedly bad because this should not work because {insert weird fluff reason here}. But every other spam list is okay to them.

Don't know that anyone is saying it for fluff reasons.  Myself and others have said it wouldn't work because of pure game mechanic reasons.

 

In order to effectively use the blaster cannon you need 2 focus, or at least a focus and TL.  Both are difficult to come by unless you have a way of passing off focus or TL's. 

 

The Blaster Cannon itself is nice, but is not by any means better then the primary weapon on say a X-Wing, in fact it's a bit worse.  Sure it has 360 degree arc, but it also only has a range of 1-2 and loses the extra die at range 1. 

 

Take the somewhat limited effectiveness of the BC and add in the need for 2 actions to make it on par with most other weapons and you have something that just isn't that good.  Not good enough to base a list on.

 

Now the HWK itself, is intended to be a support ship, the stats, abilities, ect... Were all set towards this role.  It was intended to be the Rebel support ship, like the Lambada shuttle is the Imp's support ship.  Sure they could of made the HWK more of a front line fighter if they wanted too.  But that would of meant finding a different ship to release as the Reb's support option.

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We never play tournament so our intention is to add the house rule wherein you CAN use a blaster turret on Dark Curse.  Our interpretation (which may be contrary to the latest FAQ, just not sure) is that you spend the focus token to FIRE the turret, not to enhance the rolls.  If you want to focus to enhance the rolls, you need to use two focus tokens.  

 

We'll see how that works. I'd appreciate criticisms/comments on this approach.

 

 

The main criticism is that it does run counter to official ruling in the FAQ, which is quite explicit. You don't get to shoot at Dark Curse with a weapon requiring focus.

 

I agree with TheKesrel.  Everyone can have house rules (we do too), it's just that these run specifically counter to the rules.  Just make sure you're up front with new people because it can change their build.

Thanks for the comments. I appreciate them. And I would always tell any other player the House rules of my table. Another House rule we implemented is that ships are not destroyed when they leave the map, but "bounce" off at a 90 angle from the approach vector. After the movement the ship rests at the new angle adjacent tot the board edge. Then they take up two stress tokens. This gives the defender a chance to stay alive, but penalizes them for a border violation.

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House ruling and crying about dark curse makes no sense. He has never been overpowered or a major threat. He doesn't have an ability that boosts other ships making him a priority target. At the end the the day he still flies the weakest most generic ship in this game. He basically only has a self defense ability that makes pilots targeting him unable to concentrate maybe its latent force ability maybe he flies his ship like an erratic epileptic. Who knows but quit wasting time trying to kill him first w focus based weapons and concentrate on every other ship in the game leave him for last w those weapons he is no more of a threat then a regular tie fighter.

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As VanorDM says, the HWK-290 and Lambda are support ships. In there best builds they supply buffs to other ships.

Now in 100 point games it may be debated as to the utility of these ships for their cost, however 300 point games were already announced on the horizon. Support sips really shine in big games, as I've already seen in some or my league's informal play.

Now I'm going to contradict myself a little. In a 100 point matchup I tested out Kyle+Crow+Recon+Blaster with two lowbie B-Wings+Fire Control. It won handily in the one match I played. B-Wings with constant Focus and Target Locks hit a lot of things, followed by their buff-bot performing 360 clean-up.

Edited by RecklessFable

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Now I'm going to contradict myself a little.

I don't think you're doing that at all.  You make the correct point that the HWK and Lambada are support ships.  In your list you mention, you used the HWK as it was intended to be used... A support ship.  It's purpose is to make the other ships more effective which it did.

 

But a support ship isn't completely without offense, it should be able to dish out some damage when it's not needed for other functions.  That is IMO the whole point of the Blaster Cannon, something you can use when the ship isn't needed in a support role.

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House ruling and crying about dark curse makes no sense

If a house rule makes the game more enjoyable for everyone playing then it makes a great deal of sense.

It doesn't make sense since it is the weakest most generic ship in the game. I can make a bunch of house rules just so I can negate every rule in the game that my specific list doesn't like just so I can win easier it doesn't make it any more enjoyable then cheating the rules. The point being dark curse isn't overpowered or a bigger threat then any other ship in game.

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I can make a bunch of house rules just so I can negate every rule in the game that my specific list doesn't like just so I can win easier

Pretty sure the "more enjoyable for everyone" part of my statement covers things like this.

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If the 15pt Dark Curse is ruining your 100pt list then you might want to look at your tactics and list building.  Or just ignore him.  Kill everyone else (who are likely much larger threats anyway) and then focus fire on him with standard weapons at range 1; as long as you have 2-3 ships left his 3 die vs. your 3 isn't going to last forever. 

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But a support ship isn't completely without offense, it should be able to dish out some damage when it's not needed for other functions.  That is IMO the whole point of the Blaster Cannon, something you can use when the ship isn't needed in a support role.

 

But it does, just not so much against a single specific pilot.  Otherwise, no problem.

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If the 15pt Dark Curse is ruining your 100pt list then you might want to look at your tactics and list building.  Or just ignore him.  Kill everyone else (who are likely much larger threats anyway) and then focus fire on him with standard weapons at range 1; as long as you have 2-3 ships left his 3 die vs. your 3 isn't going to last forever. 

 

Exactly.

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Sure, it makes him a nuisance, but it doesn't make the squads he's on unbeatable.

I agree, I don't see why people would ingore the FAQ and rules in this case. 

 

Even if you had a list of 4 HWK's all with blaster cannons, you could still kill him with the primary guns... Not that it would be easy, but that's what happens when you build a list like that. 

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House ruling and crying about dark curse makes no sense

If a house rule makes the game more enjoyable for everyone playing then it makes a great deal of sense.

It doesn't make sense since it is the weakest most generic ship in the game. I can make a bunch of house rules just so I can negate every rule in the game that my specific list doesn't like just so I can win easier it doesn't make it any more enjoyable then cheating the rules. The point being dark curse isn't overpowered or a bigger threat then any other ship in game.

That's probably the best strategy of how to handle him. I also find it more satisfying to figure out how to beat a particular list/ship/etc but some people would rather use house rules and that's totally cool. As long as your whole group is on board its cool but once you play with other people not on board or if you venture out to an event you start to run into problems with it.

Ultimately its about having fun gaming and if that's the way you like it the best go nuts.

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If the 15pt Dark Curse is ruining your 100pt list then you might want to look at your tactics and list building.  Or just ignore him.  Kill everyone else (who are likely much larger threats anyway) and then focus fire on him with standard weapons at range 1; as long as you have 2-3 ships left his 3 die vs. your 3 isn't going to last forever. 

the problem isn't dark cursed since his ability is a conditional ability, the problem is with jax which is a static ability which basically hose the BT by being on the board, and i personally have no qualms with DC but Jax ability on the other hand is a little too much especially for his points

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If the 15pt Dark Curse is ruining your 100pt list then you might want to look at your tactics and list building.  Or just ignore him.  Kill everyone else (who are likely much larger threats anyway) and then focus fire on him with standard weapons at range 1; as long as you have 2-3 ships left his 3 die vs. your 3 isn't going to last forever. 

the problem isn't dark cursed since his ability is a conditional ability, the problem is with jax which is a static ability which basically hose the BT by being on the board, and i personally have no qualms with DC but Jax ability on the other hand is a little too much especially for his points

 

 

But... His ability is only out to range 1 and Rebels don't always fly in swarm as Imperials tend to do,

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You can still attack, just not with the turret. And you can still use the Blaster turret against Jax as long as you remain at range two. To slightly modify an earlier argument of mine, two unique pilots out of what is now over 60 choices will not render the blaster turret obsolete. Just remember, it's a secondary weapon that is only an option for two ships, a pure support boat and a sturdy little bomber, neither of which is likely to be the main killer of a squad.

This.

Edited by Daveydavedave

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For the record, I always thought the blaster turret was worthless. The only way to make the BT work on Y-Wings is to run a grey/dutch combo with the grey having a blaster turret and dutch with an ion. I can't think of a way to make the blaster turret work otherwise.

Exactly. I planned to use it with Dutch having an ion cannon, 2 Goldwings with blaster turrets and Kyle having a blaster turret himself along with a Recon specialist. This theoretically allows me to have Focus and TL on the 2 Y-Wings with blasters every turn. Kyle would have a focus to fire his turret too but no additional buff until another ship goes down.

This would be quite a good list if not for Dark Curse.

I honestly think the Y-Wing is a better blaster turret carrier especially with an R2.

Dark Curse indeed hoses pretty much everything the rebels have except if he does 0 evades repeatedly and you hit everything. The problem is his low cost. And he may not have huge firepower but put him against a Hawk or even a Y-wing with blaster turret and he just can win it alone pretty much.

Also i don't get why people keep saying that a HWK or even turret spam list are intendedly bad because this should not work because {insert weird fluff reason here}. But every other spam list is okay to them. Some are even very competitive. But people don't have any problem with that. Now look at 3 Bounty hunters for example. Is that intended fluffwise? Ask yourself. 3 prisoner transport ships kicking the butts of professional military fighter pilots. That's okay, but 4 "freighters" kicking the butt of the fighter pilots is a problem. Sorry i don't get that.

And yes. Balance means not only faction to faction but also between ship types. Sure there can be some ships excelling against others but a HWK without the blaster turret is not good against anything even with its support abilities. Let's take Kyle as an example. His ability is good, and with Moldy crow and recon specialist it becomes even better. But he is just never ever gonna be worth his point cost if he can't fight for himself. And Dark Curse counters this for only 16 points. Poor balance. That's just what this is.

 

 

Dutch and his ion plus the other three plinking should be more than enough to take out one tie fighter, even if you lose one or two ships he only has three health and two attack, since all your actions will probably be a focus for defense once it's down to just him odds are you'll wear him down.

 

It's not fluff reasons, it's the reason of FFG balanced each ship to fulfill certain roles, sometimes these roles are "generalist fighter" (X-wing), sometimes they're "annoying maneuverable gnat" (A-wing Tie interceptor), sometimes it's "Slow sturdy rock" (Y-wing), sometimes it's "Support" (HWK and Lambda). These ships are balanced within their roles, But, to use MMO terminology,  you're bringing a bunch of healers and then getting mad your dps is below average. Moreover you're bringing a bunch of fire attacks to the cave of lava and complaining that one of the enemies has fire resistance. If you bring a list that only does one thing well accept that it's going to be brittle in some areas no matter how good it is in others.

 

Kyle is going to be worth his point cost even without a turret because his allies will kill that much quicker and defend that much better.

 

Honestly if Dark curse is that scary just use Ions instead, they only cost a point more and have only slightly lower damage output.

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the problem isn't dark cursed since his ability is a conditional ability, the problem is with jax which is a static ability which basically hose the BT by being on the board, and i personally have no qualms with DC but Jax ability on the other hand is a little too much especially for his points

 

So the problem with Dark Curse is that there exists an easier to attack, 11pt more ship?  You're adapting your arguements here, adapt your in game tactics too.

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I agree jax is much worse then DC since his ability makes him a priority target and his ship is one of the stronger imperial ships, although his limitations are likely to offset this huge advantage. He is one of the more expensive fighters and he needs to put himself into range 1 of any ship to use his ability which makes him an easier target. Still he is pretty nasty defensive ship for the rest of your squad and completely screws bladders turrets from targeting anyone as long as he is near them.

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Question: Does Autoblaster work in combination with Ten Numb's Pilot Ability? Because if so: 

 

100 points

 

Ten Numb + Marksmanship + Autoblaster (39)

Wedge Antilles + R2 Astromech + Marksmanship (33)

Luke Skywalker (28)

 

Yes, it does.  But what does that have to do with the topic of blaster turrets? :)

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Question: Does Autoblaster work in combination with Ten Numb's Pilot Ability? Because if so: 

 

100 points

 

Ten Numb + Marksmanship + Autoblaster (39)

Wedge Antilles + R2 Astromech + Marksmanship (33)

Luke Skywalker (28)

 

Yes, it does.  But what does that have to do with the topic of blaster turrets? :)

 

Seeing as everyone went to talking about Dark Curse anyway I wanted to see if AB and Ten Numb's Abilities combine. If so I think that would be a pretty potent squad against DC for any of those people who think DC is "broken."

 

Anyhow, back on topic. I like the idea of the Blaster Turret. I think it will work in some builds but not all of them.

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My point is that I don't personally believe it was intended that a blaster turret could not attack Dark Curse.   In fact I know some play testers, at Gencon who have personally said, "In play testing, they did attack dark curse, but that they just weren't allowed to use focus to change results.   However, they could still attack.     

 

 I think that after FF created the Blaster Turret and it was released that this problem arose.  When everyone started saying, "hey you can't attack my dark curse because you are using a focus token"     Rather then admit they made a mistake they have basically said, "We are right, and we built the turret this way"        I just think they took the cheap way out and they never intended for this to be an issue or even anticipated it.        

 

My two cents

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