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Doc, the Weasel

Ithorian Bellow – Is Ranged (Light) the right skill for it?

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Ah, Ithorians... I find it interesting that a pacifist race has such a deadly natural weapon.

 

Anywho, I do agree that something like bellow would definitely be under resilience, and really enhances the need for the skill. We need to tell FFG before it gets put into the final issue of the game! I won't have a book that has proposterous information on one of the most respectable races in the galaxy, I just won't!

 

I don't know why Ranged (Light) would even relate to something that is entirely physical. Not to mention that it kind of just spews all over the place (or if you focus enough goes in one general direction). Ranged skills are kind of based off of your accuracy with the weapon. Heck, god forbid, you could even put it under Brawl (forbidden due to peaceful nature, and causing great conflict in the species).

 

But still, Resilience is better than Ranged (Light). And like I said, we should post this up.

 

I can definitely see your reasoning, if they went this direction I don't think I would have a problem. I'll play devil's advocate on this one and mention that Ranged (Light) is listed as combat skill while Resilience is not. This opens the door for talents and abilities that explicitly mitigate or affect combat abilities to affect the Bellow attack, however there would be quite a bit of confusion on whether Bellow would be considered a combat skill.

 

Just a thought.

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I think it should use Brawl.

 

Here's why.

 

  1. Brawl is a combat skill and keeps things consistent.  Want to attack?  Use a combat skill.
  2. Brawl uses Brawn for it's stat and I think this makes far more sense than Agility.  Brawn indicates size and musculature.  Both of these things help with bellowing.  Bigger lungs and stronger muscles to move air are what it's all about.
  3. Brawl is a primitive skill.  Every Ithorian can bellow.
  4. Martial arts are based on Brawl.  Ithorian martial arts would inevitably evolve to use their most potent natural weapons - their bellow.  I see Ithorians in close combat using a series of strikes to throw an opponent of guard and then screaming in his face.  Awesome sauce.
  5. It's a natural ability and can't be modified.  As the game progresses modification on weapons and armor keep them relevant.  Bellow needs some love too.  Feral Strength and abilities like it are perfect.  They upgrade the damage to keep it effective as the power level rises, but are already game balanced.
Edited by Aservan

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I don't have the book but just from a game design standpoint I can see why they did this:

  • Using a Ranged (Light) skill means that the attack is made with a combat skill and falls under the rules governing combat skills (e.g. it is impacted by adversary)
  • Also using a agility based combat skill means that the player does not need to make his racial ability a dump stat. All classes in some form utilize a ranged light weapon and its very rarely a skill that is never leveled. I'd also guess that the Ithorian racials lend themselves to some of the less combat focused careers which backs up the use of Ranged (Light) even more.
  • Custom racial skills add complexity to the system which when you take one race is not really a problem but fast forward several years and now you have a ton of different custom racial skills everywhere.

I do see the complaint about them having 1 Agility but to balance that it's a weapon that cannot be removed or disabled using a despair. In theory you could create some nice role play opportunities of a character that never wields a weapon and aids his allies on the battlefield in other ways.

It surely CAN be disabled by a despair... "Ouch! You strained your vocal cords on that one... Lose your voice for a day!"

 

Just like claws can be disabled - "pulled it away from the quick." or "dislocated at the joint behind the claw." Or even, "hit a nerve - the hand/paw has gone numb."

 

What it can't be is easily permanently disabled nor transferred to another character.

 

I myself think resilience or athletics would be better than Ranged Light, especially with the number of carreers with Ranged Light as a career or specialty skill.

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I think it should use Brawl.

 

Here's why.

 

  1. Brawl is a combat skill and keeps things consistent.  Want to attack?  Use a combat skill.
  2. Brawl uses Brawn for it's stat and I think this makes far more sense than Agility.  Brawn indicates size and musculature.  Both of these things help with bellowing.  Bigger lungs and stronger muscles to move air are what it's all about.
  3. Brawl is a primitive skill.  Every Ithorian can bellow.
  4. Martial arts are based on Brawl.  Ithorian martial arts would inevitably evolve to use their most potent natural weapons - their bellow.  I see Ithorians in close combat using a series of strikes to throw an opponent of guard and then screaming in his face.  Awesome sauce.
  5. It's a natural ability and can't be modified.  As the game progresses modification on weapons and armor keep them relevant.  Bellow needs some love too.  Feral Strength and abilities like it are perfect.  They upgrade the damage to keep it effective as the power level rises, but are already game balanced.

 

 

This makes the most sense to me. Brawl is about using your body to attack, the other combat skills are about using tools to attack.

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I agree with the Brawl ideas. Ranged (Light) doesn't really seem all that relevant when you compare bellowing to any of its other uses. Plus, I don't think that I would ever describe an Ithorian as "aiming" their bellow. It does have Blast 3 after all. More likely, you would "direct" your bellow, and using the Aim maneuver would simply be some sort of preparation. Warming up your vocal chords or something. Ranged (Light) feels out of place, and Brawl is simply the most elegant alternative.

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I am inclined to agree that brawl is a good choice, but I can definitely see potential confusion if the devs went this direction.

 

A lot of talents and attributes key off of "ranged" attacks. Experienced players would realize this means attacks directed at the target from a range greater than engaged, but I am sure some rules lawyers or new players would argue otherwise. Especially considering recent discussions on how wording disqualifies certain rules. For instance the Shock Gloves items. Many people think that it's two handed because the item has an "s" on it, and therefor cannot be used in two weapon fighting.

 

When I ran my first original EotE adventure, an NPC used an item that utilized the melee skill but at short range, and my entire table was confused as to if their talents affected this, so I feel like I have a bit of experience to draw from on this topic.

 

Again, I have to issue with switching the skill to brawl, but I think we might be in a d20 mindset still when we try and pigeonhole the Raged (Light) skill as blasters and grenades, as opposed to attacks made at range (that would need some sort of aiming).

 

My 2 creds. Whatever the devs go with I'll be fine with.

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I am inclined to agree that brawl is a good choice, but I can definitely see potential confusion if the devs went this direction.

 

A lot of talents and attributes key off of "ranged" attacks. Experienced players would realize this means attacks directed at the target from a range greater than engaged, but I am sure some rules lawyers or new players would argue otherwise. Especially considering recent discussions on how wording disqualifies certain rules. For instance the Shock Gloves items. Many people think that it's two handed because the item has an "s" on it, and therefor cannot be used in two weapon fighting.

 

When I ran my first original EotE adventure, an NPC used an item that utilized the melee skill but at short range, and my entire table was confused as to if their talents affected this, so I feel like I have a bit of experience to draw from on this topic.

 

Again, I have to issue with switching the skill to brawl, but I think we might be in a d20 mindset still when we try and pigeonhole the Raged (Light) skill as blasters and grenades, as opposed to attacks made at range (that would need some sort of aiming).

 

My 2 creds. Whatever the devs go with I'll be fine with.

 

My creds as well.  We must unlearn what we have learned.  It just makes good common sense to me that this ranged attack use the Ranged (Lt) skill.

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Well, the first week update is out, and the attack skill has been changed to Resilience.

 

I don't agree with it, in part because it puts Ithorians behind the eight ball seeing as how Resilience isn't a career skill for a great many careers, meaning having to spend extra XP to purchase the skill as a non-career skill.

 

If it were a better grade of weapon (like the Lightsaber undoubtedly is), then I'd be okay with the change.  But the fact that the bellow is fairly sub-par as far as weapons go... I'd be surprised if you see Ithorian PCs only using this as a desperation attack.  Which I guess could be fitting, and might be what the design team had in mind in the first place with the Strain cost and Slow-Firing quality.

 

Edit: For some reason, i was thinking it was Brawn that started as a 1 for Ithorians.  Probably got them mixed up with the USM version, as I'm so used to seeing those stats (been around for close to a year at least).

Edited by Donovan Morningfire

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Well, the first week update is out, and the attack skill has been changed to Resilience.

 

I don't agree with it, in part because it puts Ithorians behind the eight ball seeing as how Brawn is their worst stat, and Resilience isn't a career skill for a great many careers, meaning having to spend extra XP to purchase the skill as a non-career skill.

 

If it were a better grade of weapon (like the Lightsaber undoubtedly is), then I'd be okay with the change.  But the fact that the bellow is fairly sub-par as far as weapons go... I'd be surprised if you see Ithorian PCs only using this as a desperation attack.  Which I guess could be fitting, and might be what the design team had in mind in the first place with the Strain cost and Slow-Firing quality.

Actually, the worst stat for Ithorians is Agility. Resilience makes some sense to me - the use of the Bellow is supposed to be very strenuous for them (causes 3 Strain, which Advantages on the Resilience check can help to reduce). I'm not sure it's the best skill, but I can accept it. I will agree that Resilience doesn't show up too often as a Career Skill, but I also note that few Ithorians are actually noted as commonly using the Bellow so perhaps not too many of them are very proficient with it.

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Well, the bellow also has the advantages to it that a) it can't be confiscated or taken away from you, b) it's a Blast weapon that doesn't have limited ammo, and c) you don't need to take an action to draw it.

 

I doubt the intention was for the bellow to be any Ithorian's primary weapon to begin with (as a few folks have said), so I think keying it to Resilience makes sense; it might be more expensive than a normal combat for most careers, but it gives some love to a sometimes more neglected skill, it can work really well for some builds, and it makes for a decent enough backup weapon if you're really in a pinch.

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Well, the first week update is out, and the attack skill has been changed to Resilience.

 

I don't agree with it, in part because it puts Ithorians behind the eight ball seeing as how Resilience isn't a career skill for a great many careers, meaning having to spend extra XP to purchase the skill as a non-career skill.

 

If it were a better grade of weapon (like the Lightsaber undoubtedly is), then I'd be okay with the change.  But the fact that the bellow is fairly sub-par as far as weapons go... I'd be surprised if you see Ithorian PCs only using this as a desperation attack.  Which I guess could be fitting, and might be what the design team had in mind in the first place with the Strain cost and Slow-Firing quality.

 

Edit: For some reason, i was thinking it was Brawn that started as a 1 for Ithorians.  Probably got them mixed up with the USM version, as I'm so used to seeing those stats (been around for close to a year at least).

 

Honestly I think Resilience is the best skill for bellow as far as "Makes sense lorewise". Brawl would have been acceptable if they wanted to keep to combat skills. Resilience may not be a common career skill but it's still something most people should have at least one rank in. Ithorians are mostly slow to anger pseudo-pacifists who would be just as, if not less, likely to have actual weapon skills. And a Bellow really isn't an aimed attack, They aren't Banshee from the X-men with control over sonic waves, heck they don't even have a mouth in front! They're literally opening up one mouth one each side of their face, each with two windpipes, and pushing air out on a horrifyingly painful frequency.

 

This isn't supposed to be a main weapon. It's a "got caught with our pants down" weapon, or even an "I surrender suckers!" weapon.

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I think fair points can be made for both skills. Preferences and perspective determines what one considers "most" reasonable. To me, both would be cool, although Resilience makes it less of an easily effective weapon (however good or bad it is) that cannot be disarmed as such. The Ithorians are always armed with this ability. I'm not saying anything new. I'll leave it at that.

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With the Week 2 Update, an Ithorian Commando can benefit from Physical Training and very quickly get 2 Boost (Blue) dice whenever using the Bellow. Commando is a highly unlikely specialization for a canonically accurate Ithorian, but PCs tend to break such rules.

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With the Week 2 Update, an Ithorian Commando can benefit from Physical Training and very quickly get 2 Boost (Blue) dice whenever using the Bellow. Commando is a highly unlikely specialization for a canonically accurate Ithorian, but PCs tend to break such rules.

Has anyone found something in the Force powers to mimic Roron Corobb's Force-augmented bellow? I was thinking about how trees in Sense and Enhance could also improve it, obviously, but wondering if I missed something else.

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Ah, Ithorians... I find it interesting that a pacifist race has such a deadly natural weapon.

 

Anywho, I do agree that something like bellow would definitely be under resilience, and really enhances the need for the skill. We need to tell FFG before it gets put into the final issue of the game! I won't have a book that has proposterous information on one of the most respectable races in the galaxy, I just won't!

 

I don't know why Ranged (Light) would even relate to something that is entirely physical. Not to mention that it kind of just spews all over the place (or if you focus enough goes in one general direction). Ranged skills are kind of based off of your accuracy with the weapon. Heck, god forbid, you could even put it under Brawl (forbidden due to peaceful nature, and causing great conflict in the species).

 

But still, Resilience is better than Ranged (Light). And like I said, we should post this up.

Having such a powerful natural weapon may be one of the influencing factors in why they became a passivity species.

Also Ithorians should start with 200Exp because Ithorians are cool

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Ah, Ithorians... I find it interesting that a pacifist race has such a deadly natural weapon.

 

Anywho, I do agree that something like bellow would definitely be under resilience, and really enhances the need for the skill. We need to tell FFG before it gets put into the final issue of the game! I won't have a book that has proposterous information on one of the most respectable races in the galaxy, I just won't!

 

I don't know why Ranged (Light) would even relate to something that is entirely physical. Not to mention that it kind of just spews all over the place (or if you focus enough goes in one general direction). Ranged skills are kind of based off of your accuracy with the weapon. Heck, god forbid, you could even put it under Brawl (forbidden due to peaceful nature, and causing great conflict in the species).

 

But still, Resilience is better than Ranged (Light). And like I said, we should post this up.

Having such a powerful natural weapon may be one of the influencing factors in why they became a passivity species.

Also Ithorians should start with 200Exp because Ithorians are cool

 

Oh yeah! High five!

 

*Sits with optimistic smile and raised hand for thirty seconds*

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I'd say that Athletics, Discipline, and Ranged (Light) all make sense. I haven't seen the Ithorian's stats, but I'd say that it's possible that Ranged (Light) was chosen because they get a penalty to Agility. It's a balancing factor.

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I'd say that Athletics, Discipline, and Ranged (Light) all make sense. I haven't seen the Ithorian's stats, but I'd say that it's possible that Ranged (Light) was chosen because they get a penalty to Agility. It's a balancing factor.

Are you ware that it's been changed in the Updates to Resilience?

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