Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
mrvander

BBY and ABY why oh why?

Recommended Posts

 

 

 

If AD marks the year of his conception, then it isn't 2013AD, but somewhere between 2017 - 2025AD since evidence suggests that if such a person as Jesus was born, he was born somewhere between 12 - 4BC with a time of year closer to summer than early winter.

 

Where do you get conception? Where? AD = After Death.

Yes, BC = Before Christ, thus before he was born. (side note, conception also is not the same as being born).

Yes, this does mean there missing years. Jesus Christ was 33 years old when he died on the cross. Not 17-25 years old....plus 9 months. No, the western calendar does not reflect this. Why? Because it's the Catholic church, they don't pay attention to reason. (Can you spot the atheist here, kids? If you guessed me, you were right! Yay!)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_Domini

 

 

pretty sure we've been regularily using BCE and CE(before common era/ common era) for a decade or so now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair, using BBY/ABY to mark years in the Star Wars universe is, in fact, an in-universe conceit, adopted by the New Republic government. This has been part of Star Wars canon for quite a long time, and has nothing to do with FFG.

 

Now, to be equally fair, the "canonization" in-universe of the Battle of Yavin as the "fixture point" for the Galactic Standard Calendar didn't happen until 25 ABY anyway.  So if you want to let people know what year it is, in-world, 0 ABY is, in fact, Year 35 under the Great ReSynchronization adopted by the Old Republic.

 

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! This is what I'm talking about. So in light of ABY and BBY being "canon-ized", it just seems silly to me "in-universe". Makes zero sense.

Edited by mrvander

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We could really muck things up and have every system and planet keep time by how long someone has been ruling.  "16th year of the Emperors reign" would be the same time as "2nd year of King Lee-char of Dac" and "97th year of King fizzlebix of groat"

 

and then you would understand why historians have all agreed one defining history from a single event

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We could really muck things up and have every system and planet keep time by how long someone has been ruling.  "16th year of the Emperors reign" would be the same time as "2nd year of King Lee-char of Dac" and "97th year of King fizzlebix of groat"

 

and then you would understand why historians have all agreed one defining history from a single event

 

This is actually a good idea from a GM point of view to add "flavor" to a world. After all, each world probably has a local calendar that makes sense based on their local astrophysics despite there being a galactic standard.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really think anyone intends that people *within* the Star Wars universe refer to time by "BBY" or "ABY".

 

I think it's just a conventional way for us outside of that system to understand time, rather than establish some specific system they use within the universe.

 

Agreed...just like OP says, it's a way for the audience to understand.  I never took it to mean that's how people in the universe would understand time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

pretty sure we've been regularily using BCE and CE(before common era/ common era) for a decade or so now. 

 

As far as I've seen, most folks still use BC and AD.  Being an atheist myself, I would, except that It's still measuring from the same point.  If we're measuring from Jesus' birth, let's acknowledge that.  Though since we're off by some years anyway, if we want we could measure from when the Roman senate gave Octavian the title, "Augustus."  Yes... the IMPERIAL ERA!  Bwahahaha!

 

Anyway, I imagine a lot of planets measure time according to their own calendars, so not only would their dates not match up well to Coruscant time, the length of their years varies widely.  Considering the autonomy of a lot of worlds, and the frequency with which the galaxy is plunged into chaos, the "official" calendar could be seen as a joke.  "Hey, Frank, what's the date today?  I think my mom's birthday is coming up."

"Let's see, on my planet it's Flarb 12th, 361, so on yours it would be... the 3rd Cycle of Dawn, 12th year of the Star Serpent?"

"What's that in Coruscant time?"

"I dunno, a bilion?"

"It's probably less than that."

"Fine, three.  It's year three.  Who cares?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Anyway, I imagine a lot of planets measure time according to their own calendars, so not only would their dates not match up well to Coruscant time, the length of their years varies widely.  Considering the autonomy of a lot of worlds, and the frequency with which the galaxy is plunged into chaos, the "official" calendar could be seen as a joke.  "Hey, Frank, what's the date today?  I think my mom's birthday is coming up."

"Let's see, on my planet it's Flarb 12th, 361, so on yours it would be... the 3rd Cycle of Dawn, 12th year of the Star Serpent?"

"What's that in Coruscant time?"

"I dunno, a bilion?"

"It's probably less than that."

"Fine, three.  It's year three.  Who cares?"

 

 

I think that's likely for Joe Shmoe, his brother and their mom's birthday, but when you're a mega-conglomerate who does business galaxy-wide, it suddenly takes on a bit more importance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I don't really think anyone intends that people *within* the Star Wars universe refer to time by "BBY" or "ABY".

 

I think it's just a conventional way for us outside of that system to understand time, rather than establish some specific system they use within the universe.

 

Agreed...just like OP says, it's a way for the audience to understand.  I never took it to mean that's how people in the universe would understand time.

 

 

See Rikoshi's post above... it's refuted that this is meant to be just external, meta-usage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just don't know what year to tell people it is in my campaign set in The Old Republic era D:.

If you're in the timeframe before the events of The Old Republic (MMO), I think you just use the founding of the Republic as your starting point. If your campaign is set during or after the MMO, you use the Treaty of Coruscant as your fixed point, and after that it seems like the Great Resynchronization becomes the next fixed point.

 

An example: anyone living before the Treaty of Coruscant, discussing the Jedi Civil War waged by Revan and Malak would refer to it as beginning in the year 21094. After the Treaty of Coruscant, they would refer to Revan's invasion as starting in the year 306 BTC (Before the Treaty of Coruscant). Someone born after the Ruusan Reformation would refer to this same event as occurring in the year 2959 before the Reformation. Someone referring to it after the Resynchronization would call it 3924 BrS.

 

To make matters more confusing, some Imperials used the founding of the Empire as a starting date.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To add proof to the assertion that ABY and BBY are in fact in-universe Canon, allow me to quote from Voren Na'al from "An Introduction to Students of History" as printed in "The New Essential Chronology":

 

The years in this document are marked according to the new standard convention, which uses the Battle of Yavin as its zero point. This event, which saw the destruction of the Death Star and the dawning of a new hope for the people of the galaxy, represents the symbolic beginning of our current society. Events that precede this event are indicated B.B.Y., while those after are noted A.B.Y.

 

Note the use of the inclusive word "our" in the text. This is in-universe canon folks and I say Boo! Boo! Senseless.

Edited by mrvander

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And just to add fuel to the fire, I don't buy the "oh, it's only used for us fans to reference." Uh-uh. I'm sure there's in-universe references to it and even Wookiepedia references it as if it's in-universe. Someone with more time and EU knowledge than I can probably find it (I don't care for about 90% of the EU.)

 

It's used as an in-setting reference because it was introduced as the new year system after the New Republic took over.

 

4oL8P.png

 

So it is actually the dating system used.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So further proof of it being "in-universe" and non-sensical. Why would the New Republic establish a new dating system just resynchronized decades earlier? That would do nothing but throw current economics into disarray and cause chaos. It's not sensible for the New republic to do such a thing, entirely sensible for Palpatine to do so however.

 

And the argument still stands, why the Battle of Yavin, it does not hold that kind of galactic relevance. Why is it more important than any other battle that has taken place or will take place? This is sloppy ret-conning by Star Wars publishers or the "keepers of the canon" and just plain silly. Will we reset the ABY and BBY after episode 7 and we see what big events transpire then? Just silly.

Edited by mrvander

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

pretty sure we've been regularily using BCE and CE(before common era/ common era) for a decade or so now. 

 

As far as I've seen, most folks still use BC and AD.  Being an atheist myself, I would, except that It's still measuring from the same point.  If we're measuring from Jesus' birth, let's acknowledge that.  Though since we're off by some years anyway, if we want we could measure from when the Roman senate gave Octavian the title, "Augustus."  Yes... the IMPERIAL ERA!  Bwahahaha!

 

Anyway, I imagine a lot of planets measure time according to their own calendars, so not only would their dates not match up well to Coruscant time, the length of their years varies widely.  Considering the autonomy of a lot of worlds, and the frequency with which the galaxy is plunged into chaos, the "official" calendar could be seen as a joke.  "Hey, Frank, what's the date today?  I think my mom's birthday is coming up."

"Let's see, on my planet it's Flarb 12th, 361, so on yours it would be... the 3rd Cycle of Dawn, 12th year of the Star Serpent?"

"What's that in Coruscant time?"

"I dunno, a bilion?"

"It's probably less than that."

"Fine, three.  It's year three.  Who cares?"

 

huh, well in my field it's mostly BCE/CE... then again if someone says 1971 i'm not going to assume they mean 500 years in the future, based off of the Islamic calendar or something (so the discussion of BC/AD vs. BCE/CE doesn't come up as often as discussions over the uses of terms like, feudal system, first, second, third world etc)...

Discussion is moot, most planets/systems have their own calendars in the galaxy and Coruscant's Calendar is merely used as a reference point of an event that most of the galaxy would be familiar with. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Discussion is moot, most planets/systems have their own calendars in the galaxy and Coruscant's Calendar is merely used as a reference point of an event that most of the galaxy would be familiar with. 

 

Why is the discussion moot? You can't assert something then say any discussion is moot as if you have last say on the matter. Talk about silly.

 

So here's some more discussion... why would most of the galaxy be aware of the Battle of Yavin the closer to the event it is? In fact, the Empire would be doing it's best to squash the truth of what happened and your average galactic citizen wouldn't even know about it until years later when it was history written by the victors. Only then would your average citizen know about and my argument still holds that it's not the most important event and it's simply not in character for the N.R. to reset galactic standards only after mere decades.

 

Additionally, not to derail my own thread, I think the whole notion of the New Republic is going to be moot in a few years anyway. So what do the masters of canon do then, when the very organization that established ABY and BBY has been rewritten to not even exist anymore? Having a simple in-universe explanation such as The Great ReSynch or Palpatine resynching it would keep continuity throughout all products - much as Star Trek does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is, that this is written in an out of Universe fashion, the battle of Yavin is the defining moment of this time period for us(despite it being a publicized event or not)

 

if one wanted to use a in universe date in their sessions, then it would be year 19 after the establishment of the new order, or year 1000 since Ruusan. 

or something like year ~25,000 post establishment of the repbulic

Edited by Saseav

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is, that this is written in an out of Universe fashion, the battle of Yavin is the defining moment of this time period for us(despite it being a publicized event or not)

 

if one wanted to use a in universe date in their sessions, then it would be year 19 after the establishment of the new order, or year 1000 since Ruusan. 

or something like year ~25,000 post establishment of the repbulic

 

Thanks but unfortunately you're sort of just repeating what has been said in this thread by everyone who hasn't read it. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The problem is, that this is written in an out of Universe fashion, the battle of Yavin is the defining moment of this time period for us(despite it being a publicized event or not)

 

if one wanted to use a in universe date in their sessions, then it would be year 19 after the establishment of the new order, or year 1000 since Ruusan. 

or something like year ~25,000 post establishment of the repbulic

 

Thanks but unfortunately you're sort of just repeating what has been said in this thread by everyone who hasn't read it. ;)

 

 

I did read it, but we're talking about a book that has to set the time period in a format that the player knows best, which is the BBY/ABY.  I'm aware TOR had a different calendar system, but that is due to the big time gap between that and the movies(as in for simplicity's sake, the calendar was reset to something that would make dates more manageable for everyone)  and It is true the older systems use Palpatine's reign is a correct point of reference, and in universe this is the correct system at the time,  However when the new system comes into play, and when New Republic changes it it is in reference to the rise of the Rebellion as a major power and the waning of the empire(signified by the destruction of the death star)

Edited by Saseav

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Saseav, I was a bit flippant in my last comment but what I really meant to convey is that the points you bring up have all been attended to in this thread already.

 

No one is disputing what is being used or why its being used. We've already been over the Old Republic 25000+ years timeline, the Ruusaan Reformations, the Great ReSynchronization, Palpatine's Decree, and the New Republic's ABY/BBY designation as actual in-universe canon. We've talked about how it's meant to be external vs. in-universe, it's been shown that it was probably originally meant to be meta-fiction for us, the audience, but then was retconned into New Republic timeline.

 

The crux of the discussion is how using Yavin is silly and how its my opinion that FFG lost a good opportunity to "set the record" here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, BBY/ABY is neither more *nor less* arbitrary or 'silly' than BC/AD.  Both are examples of resetting a calendar to start from some 'galaxy/world altering event' based upon the opinions of those in power at the time.  The BC/AD resync isn't somehow less arbitrary because the event was the birth of a son to some Jewish carpenter in the middle east, rather than a battle.  They're both events of great symbolic importance to the folks who were in power when the decision to resync the calendar was made.

 

In the case of the BBY/ABY resync, it happened shortly after the event in question (only 25 years).  In the case of the BC/AD resync it happend a *long* time after the fact, and the date chosen involved someone's best guess as to how long it had been since Jesus was born, and finding a way to superimpose that date on a *very* popular pagan holiday in order to more easily co-opt it and convert more 'heathens'.

 

In point of fact, a common year-zero reference *prior* to the BC/AD resync was AUC, which was based on the foundation of Rome (where 100 BC = AUC 654).

 

Other common references were based on the year a given king/emperor/etc. took power (eg: the 15th year of king So-And-So-VII's reign).

 

All of these methods of finding a 'zero point' for a calendar are arbitrary.  We don't actually know (with anywhere *near* enough precision or accuracy) how long it has been since the 'Big Bang', which would ostensibly be the *least* arbitrary 'zero-year' moment we could come up with.

 

PS: As a side note, there actually never *was* a 'year zero' in the BC/AD system.  It went from 1 BC (the first year before Christ) to 1AD (the first 'year of our lord').

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heck, I thought the BBY and ABY was just there so we as fans knew when a book was taking place within the Star Wars universe.  Somehow it crossed over to the gaming system and stayed that way. It's your galaxy date it how you want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heck, I thought the BBY and ABY was just there so we as fans knew when a book was taking place within the Star Wars universe.  Somehow it crossed over to the gaming system and stayed that way. It's your galaxy date it how you want.

 

While a common belief, I'm fairly certain that West End Games actually initially established the dating system for it's Star Wars Roleplaying Game back in the late 80s. A lot of that carried over into the EU novels because a lot of the EU material was actually derived from roleplaying modules developed by West End Games. A lot of things West End Games produced became part of the canon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an aside, I have observed that people repeat stuff a lot in this thread.

As a separate aside...guys, Google exists. Use it if you're unsure about something. Wikipedia is a good general resource, as is Wookieepedia for a Star Wars-specific resource. The Internet is a marvelous thing, and the difference between uninformed and informed is often just a click of the mouse/tap of the track pad. Not saying everyone can know everything...but many of the answers are there for those that can type words and tap the little "search" button.

The closest canon reference I've found for 'current' times is in the novel Millennium Falcon. There are a couple references to the titular ship being a " '75 model", but they never say the entire year, just the '75 at the end. (It's a bit like referring to a '75 Ford Falcon, in that everyone understands it means 1975.) It's great for verisimilitude, letting the characters speak casually about the year, but it would have been nice for someone to have a reason to list the full year somewhere.

Perhaps 75 years before the Battle of Yavin? In 25 ABY, the Battle of Yavin became the in-universe "year 0" to reset the calendar, and the YT-1300 was introduced around that time. Perhaps the Falcon was a concept/prototype model. But really, you should check out starwars.wikia.com (Wookieepedia). Lots of good info in there for Star Wars chronology, and even references to where they got the info from!

They never made an official statement about this, but this is the closest answer I can come up with. Heck, there are upnumerous systems that are functionally unchanged between the Old Republic era and the Empire — 4,000 years, and Tatooine is still a little-known backwater? Why not have people still use the original numbering?

If you pay attention to the lore in KotOR (unless you're referring to TOR, never got to Tatooine in that game), you find that Tatooine is absolutely barren—it's a worthless ball of rock and sand. Nothing worth mining, hardly anything to export. But seriously, Wookieepedia. If you're curious about Tatooine's history and general chronology, there are answers. Edited by awayputurwpn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...