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valukr

silly questions

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I'm new.

Questions:

Deck Limit (min and max) ? min. 60? is that including plots?

When building a deck can i use old cards? the CCG? with black borders?

If i cannot use the old cards with black borders, can i use the black border cards from the chapter packs? Why are the cards from the chapter packs done with black borders it really confuses me

On turn one, after you draw up to 7 cards do you still draw 2 cards for the first turn?

When using Bran? how does he work? do both plot cards effects trigger? or just one? which intiative to do i use? and which plot cards gold do i use?

 

 

Sorry for the messy lay out of my questions

 

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Hey, I'm new, too, but I will try to answer those of your questions I can with what I've learned from reading the forums, the comments at tzumainn's and the kTome.

Chapter packs with black borders: The chapter packs from the clash of arms set were published before AGOT became a living card game so they still show some characteristics from the CCG, especially in terms of layout and design. But since those chapter packs work exactly like the new chapter packs and not like a bosster from a CCG they are considered to be part of the LCG.

Drawing cards after setup: Yes, you do. The draw phase is an inherent part of every round.

Bran Stark: You can use Bran only during the action window that comes after plots have been chosen and revealed, initiative is counted and "when revealed" plot effects resolved.

That means that the plot you choosed and revealed first will be the one that determines your initiative because you wont be able to change your plots befor initiative is counted while the one you brought into play with bran's effect will be the one that matters when you count your income because income is counted at the beginning of the marshalling phase and by then you will have discarded your first plot into the used pile and revealed the new one.

"When revealed" effects from both Plots will trigger but you can only keep the passive ability of the second for the rest of the round.

This allows for a vast variety of tactics. You could play a card with high initative and/or a neat "when revealed" effect and then reveal one with a higher income and/or claim and a helpful passive ability or response. I'll let the seasoned players give you some advice on which exact plots to use and correct me if I got anything wrong.

 

Sorry for the messy layout of my answers. ;)

 

 

 

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Mostly right. The Plot Phase actually has two player action windows, one before plots are revealed, and one after. This actually allows you to use a when revealed plot effect before everyone else gets to reveal a plot card. This is import in Legacy because their are plot cards which become more powerful when you have a certain number of traited plots in your used pile, and their are several plots that blank or cancel other plots... and if you want to hit your valar before anyone else has a chance to react you can kneel Bran pre plot action, flip Valar, and then during your normal reveal bring in a high gold or high claim plot. If there was a way to stand Bran you could technically flip multiple plots before and after the Framework Action Window where everyone else reveals plots.

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to finish up,

60 is indeed the minimum, it does not include the seven plot crads, your house card, or any agenda you might be running. There is no maximum.

When building a deck you can build it using in theory what ever cards you want, especially when playing casually. If you go to a tournament there are two support formats which are called Legacy and LCG only. LCG only is fairly staright forword in that it is normal deckbuilding rules, but limited to cards from any Chapter Pack and the Core Set. Legacy is a special deck format that only allows you to have one copy of any card in your deck, but is not limited and can use any card in exisitence. There are some restricitions on cards which are covered in the LCG (i.e. banned cards, or errated cards), but unless you are playing in a tournamnet you do not need to know them.

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dormouse said:

 

Mostly right. The Plot Phase actually has two player action windows, one before plots are revealed, and one after. This actually allows you to use a when revealed plot effect before everyone else gets to reveal a plot card.

 

 The LCG FAQ diagram shows two action windows in the plot phase. One before and one after the framework action that reads like this:

FRAMEWORK ACTION:

1. Choose and reveal plots

2. Initiative is counted

3. High initiative player appoints"First Player"

 4. "when revealed" plot effects resolve (in order determined by First Player)
 

I thought framework actions that are not restricted to the active player would resolve for all players at the same time which means that you wont reach that action window until everybody revealed their plot. Well, I'm new to this game, as I said, and I posted this reply as an opportunity to test my knowledge and correct my errors. Seems like that was a good idea after all.

 

 

 

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Sinderlin said:

 The LCG FAQ diagram shows two action windows in the plot phase. One before and one after the framework action that reads like this:

FRAMEWORK ACTION:

1. Choose and reveal plots

2. Initiative is counted

3. High initiative player appoints"First Player"

 4. "when revealed" plot effects resolve (in order determined by First Player)
 

I thought framework actions that are not restricted to the active player would resolve for all players at the same time which means that you wont reach that action window until everybody revealed their plot. Well, I'm new to this game, as I said, and I posted this reply as an opportunity to test my knowledge and correct my errors. Seems like that was a good idea after all.

Technicality here: framework actions resolve for all players at the same time regardless of who is First or Active player. It's just that some framework actions don't have any practical resolution for someone who is not the First or Active player. For example, if you are not the Active player when you get to the framework action in the Marshaling phase for "Active Player Counts Income," the window still takes place for you (and your passive effects and Responses are just as valid as the Active player's), you just don't count income when the framework event resolves.

 

Anyway, you are absolutely correct that the "Choose and Reveal Plots" framework window will close at the same time for all players and no player will reach the action window after it while another player is still in it.

However, they are talking about using an Plot phase effect like Bran Stark here. Bran reads "Plot: Kneel Bran Stark to choose and reveal a new plot card." You can use this Plot phase effect in either of the two action windows in the Plot phase - before or after the "Choose and Reveal Plots" framework window. If you wait until after, then yes, you must wait until every other player's revealed plot card has been resolved. But if you do it before, you will reveal a plot for Bran's ability before everyone else (and get any "when revealed" effect), then you will reveal another plot at the normal time that all players reveal their plot card for the round (and get any "when revealed" effect on that one as well).

So your understanding of the Plot phase and the framework action windows are perfect. You were probably just not adding the Bran into the mix.

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ktom said:

However, they are talking about using an Plot phase effect like Bran Stark here. Bran reads "Plot: Kneel Bran Stark to choose and reveal a new plot card." You can use this Plot phase effect in either of the two action windows in the Plot phase - before or after the "Choose and Reveal Plots" framework window. If you wait until after, then yes, you must wait until every other player's revealed plot card has been resolved. But if you do it before, you will reveal a plot for Bran's ability before everyone else (and get any "when revealed" effect), then you will reveal another plot at the normal time that all players reveal their plot card for the round (and get any "when revealed" effect on that one as well).

For some strange reason I ignored that you can use Bran's before new plots have been revealed in that round. Repeating a framework action (which is what Bran does if you use him during the second action window) made perfect sense to me but somehow my mind refused to acknowledge the possibilty of anticipating one. Thanks for your help! Sometimes I just need some help to kickstart my mind.

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Hey no problem. Using Bran before anyone else is one of those lilttle strategic bits that sometimes will give you an edge. If the speculation tabout the City Plots in King's Landing is true and they are somehow similar in scope to the Kingdom or Others traited plots then knowing this may be extremely useful. If they aren't and it is more like the Warden cycle of plots it may not matter... but it is important to recognize the opportunity to play any plot action or any phase action effect exists before the select/reveal plots Framework Action... especially if you are playing a Targ Ambush deck and running Ruled by Decree. Drop your cards in hand down to six by playing an Ambush card  in the first Player Action Window, flip RBD in the Framework Window, and then watch as everyone else has to discard down to four cards. cool.gif

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Sinderlin said:

For some strange reason I ignored that you can use Bran's before new plots have been revealed in that round. Repeating a framework action (which is what Bran does if you use him during the second action window) made perfect sense to me but somehow my mind refused to acknowledge the possibilty of anticipating one. Thanks for your help! Sometimes I just need some help to kickstart my mind.

Just another technicality here: Bran neither repeats nor anticipates a framework action window. His ability is used in a Player Action window. The resolution of his player action just happens to be the same thing (for one player instead of all) as the resolution of the "choose and reveal plots" framework event in the plot phase.

Remember that "when revealed" plot effects are technically passive effects activated by revealing the card - even in the plot framework action window (there's a clarification on this in the FAQ).

So while it is probably not all that important in the scheme of things, the resolution of Bran's ability does not create or replicate a framework action window; it's a player action all its own. (The only reason I can think of why the distinction could be important in a practical sense is because the order of Responses is different in Framework and Player Action windows.)

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ktom said:

 

Just another technicality here: Bran neither repeats nor anticipates a framework action window. His ability is used in a Player Action window. The resolution of his player action just happens to be the same thing (for one player instead of all) as the resolution of the "choose and reveal plots" framework event in the plot phase.

 

 


That's what I meant. Next time I'll included something like 'in the broader sense'. I should pick my words more carefully when discussing rules. Sorry for that little misunderstanding.


ktom said:

 

Remember that "when revealed" plot effects are technically passive effects activated by revealing the card - even in the plot framework action window (there's a clarification on this in the FAQ).

 

Didn't know that! I'll read that part of the FAQ again. This thread turns out to be more of a  help for me than for the OP. Sorry valukr for hijacking your thread and thanks to dormouse and ktom. This forum is one of the most newbie friendly I've ever seen.
 

 

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Sinderlin said:

That's what I meant. Next time I'll included something like 'in the broader sense'. I should pick my words more carefully when discussing rules. Sorry for that little misunderstanding.

...

Didn't know that! I'll read that part of the FAQ again. This thread turns out to be more of a  help for me than for the OP. Sorry valukr for hijacking your thread and thanks to dormouse and ktom. This forum is one of the most newbie friendly I've ever seen.

No need to apologize. I have actually seen people get into great confusion over effects like Bran's because they thought that plots could only be resolved when revealed as part of the normal plot phase. I had a feeling you understood the distinction, but thought it better to say something to be sure.

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but it is important to recognize the opportunity to play any plot action or any phase action effect exists before the select/reveal plots Framework Action... especially if you are playing a Targ Ambush deck and running Ruled by Decree. Drop your cards in hand down to six by playing an Ambush card in the first Player Action Window, flip RBD in the Framework Window, and then watch as everyone else has to discard down to four cards.

 

Haha, that's mean. But I guess you won't get so many opportunities after the first round to play this combo exactly like this since it only works when everybody has the same amount of cards in his hands which is only granted in the first round because you draw back up to seven cards after setup, right?

I didn't pick up my main house yet. As a matter of fact I'm still waiting for my core set to be delivered. Well, it's not really 'my' core set as I'll share it with some friends and they just choosed me to investigate deeper into the rule's subtleties.

 

edit: Sorry for the f***ed up quotation. I tried to close the huge gap between dormouse's quote and my post but somehow managed to screw up everything. I blame my addiction to edits.

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