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peterstepon

What will Vader's stats look like?....

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I feel like Vader should have more Willpower and Presence than brawn.  I know he's a big dude and good with a lightsaber and stuff, but he's the most powerful being in the force (Wil), basically, and the very sight of him can induce fear (Pre). 

 

Brawn would be secondary, but have a high rank in Lightsaber skill.

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You could instead rank him as having a high Coercion, though I'd also suggest that he's got the cybernetic limbs going there as far as Brawn; keep in mind though that it's also determining his Soak and Wound Threshold...

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A pair of considerations. I remembered that in page 15 (last paragraph) people from FFG says a sutile "6 maybe isn't the max" and probably characters like Darth Vader could have more than 6. But its just an interpretation.

 

Never really understood this. The book on page 15 mentions that stats go from 1 to 6, but some exceptions exist - "for example, a rancor likely has a Brawn rating much higher than one of the PC's" and then in the Adversary chapter they go and put a rancor at Brawn 6...   wtf?

 

As to my Vader stats, they are based on the Forsaken Jedi stats in the Adversaries section with a couple of numbers increased and some extra stuff added in. The higher Brawn is indeed due to his cybernetics. As to the extra Lightsaber abilities, I understand that the Forsaken Jedi's saber stats may be a typo, but I like to think of them as a sign of things to come, perhaps being added from some Jedi talents that have yet to be revealed.

 

I didn't give him a massive Willpower score. My reasoning behind this was that Anakin was weak-willed enough to be seduced by the Dark Side, but I guess you could say his WP has increased during his time as Vader.

 

I also went for an Agility of 2 as he doesn't seem the most agile of people since his incarceration in the suit. His use of Frenzied attack could help him temporarily against particularly skilled opponents. Bearing in mind that, if a round lasts approximately 1 minute, the fight between Vader and Luke on Bespin would have only lasted from 4 to 6 combat rounds in EotE, Vaders Strain should last long enough for him to do what he needs to before it runs out.

 

As it was believed that the Jedi had all been exterminated, I can imagine he wouldn't have used his Lightsaber skills to much of a degree over the 20 years that followed before he encountered Luke. As such he could have been out of practice.  :D

 

Just some notes behind my warped thought processes!  ^_^

Edited by Space Monkey

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I believe in one of the Order 66 Podcasts they decided to keep the rancor's Brawn at 6 because otherwise it never missed.  So it's Brawn is probably a lot more than 6 but for skill checks it's stuck at 6 :)

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I agree for low agility on Vader.  I think Brawn should be somewhat high because, like you said, he needs high wound and soak, but still not sure it should be the highest.

 

 

Of course, you can describe a scenario which gives him high brawn, or willpower, or presence, so it's really just personal preference without official stats.  I just really like my high presence idea.  Or maybe give him high Coerce instead, who knows lol.

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I love that miniature XD

 

Game stats that 5 or 6 represents an excepcional atribute BUT this doesn't mean that its the max of a specie.

 

Considereing that, Usain Bolt could have more than 6 at Brawn and Einstein more than 6 at Intelligence, but, I have a few problems understanding the concept that people from FFG want to share with us.

 

Suggestions?

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I hope that FFG doesn't ever do stat write-ups for the various iconic movie characters.

 

For the most part, they're not really of a lot of use to GMs (as very few actually use said characters in their games other than for very brief cameo appearances).

 

While such stats may have been (allegedly) of some use in level-based games like the d20 systems or in a purely skill-based game such as WEG's d6 system as a model for PCs to build their characters towards, I don't see that really being viable under the way that FFG is handling NPCs in their game.  After all, each talent tree provides a plethora of talents, and NPCs aren't under those constraints (with the GM simply being able to choose what talents best fit the NPC they are building).

 

So either you've got an "iconic" character who is built like a PC with an extremely bloated list of talents (Luke with his various specialization hopping comes to mind) or is built as an NPC with only a fraction of the talents a PC would pick up along the way.  The former might be some use to players, but it'd be a nightmare for GMs, and the later would be more useful to those GMs that would use them, but of no use to players looking for ideas on how to advance their character.

 

Plus you've got the simple fact that no matter how FFG decides to write such characters up, there's going to nerd-rage and forum wars about how "Character X should or shouldn't have Talent Y because of Scene F in Movie K!"  Honestly, the design team is probably busy enough coming up with original material that delving into something that's sure to cause more grief than good is probably not worth it.

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Hi people!

 

Its pretty hard so say anything without all Force/Jedi mechanics implemented, but its a nice aproximation Space Monkey :D

 

I always use to say that its better for everyone that people from FFG create stats because they are the ones who can interpretate its games, stats and mechanics with a more accurate and personal vision (because they created it XD).

 

If the official stats don't exist, you can't understand their accurate (and personal) vision, but if you have a reference then you have more options like: accept them, make a few changes or just ignore them!

 

So, with official stats everyone would be happy because covers everyone wishes.

 

Take care :D

****, I was speed reading this topic/post, and I read "approximation (OF) Space Monkey". Vader had a new nickname there for a minute...

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Vader has never been cooler than in the prologue of The Force Unleashed.

 

 

He is just striding through a forest force choking Wookies and blowing apart gateways with his mind.

 

Man, I love that level.  I love how there's no sprint functionality in that level...just walking like a boss.

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Predator+If+it+has+stats+we+can+kill+it.

This is literally an eight-word photographic explanation of why I'm against stats for the iconic characters. :P It's (thankfully) not a stat-for-tat game...

 

Oh, and that first level of The Force Unleashed is "I'm Darth Vader, Bicce: The Video Game".

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Are you suggesting that iconic characters should be unstatted so that they are unkillable?

Pretty much.

 

It's a common symptom of RPGs that if you give such notable figures as Vader, the Emperor, Yoda, Luke, Han, et all, then you're going to have a greater likelihood of PCs wanting to gack them simply to say that they killed so-and-so.  After all, there are plenty of 1st edition D&D stories of player groups taking down specific gods back when TSR did their initial Deities & Demigods supplement, including (not-so) Great Cthulhu amidst many others.  This probably has even happened in WEG's D6 and WotC's d20 games as well, with PCs simply deciding to take the GM's planned adventure for a ride and try to whack any movie character that showed up, ranging from Jar-Jar Binks to Darth Vader.

 

It's also a main reason why Pinnacle games didn't provide stats to four of their major villains in Deadlands until Deadlands: Reloaded came out, by which point those four villains had already served their plot purpose and so could be taken out.  Admittedly, they were still freaking nasty (especially Stone!), but for a posse of Legendary heroes, it was possible.  Until that point, they simply succeeded where the GM needed them to succeed, and failed where the GM needed them to fail.

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To add to what Donovan says, "statted NPCs" seems to encourage players-with-access-to-said-stats to go munchkining or optimizing for iconic-character killing, instead of dealing with such an encounter in a more organic fashion or in what Donovan Morningfire describes about pre-Reloaded ("they simply succeeded where the GM needed them to succeed, and failed where the GM needed them to fail"), which is why I like the EotE book core rulebook sticking to generic NPCs outside of the included Adventure... all the "here's what a high-end character can look like" for a GM's benefit without the player behavior problems that Donovan and others have described.

 

I'm probably misremembering a detail or too, but I remember a d20 story where the players did manage to bring down Vader... but at least there, a Toydarian PC ended up sacrificing his life (shot down by stormtroopers) to throw Vader's helmet skyward as a rallying symbol for a people's rebellion -- "Coruscant is free!" in non-verbal form.

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Are you suggesting that iconic characters should be unstatted so that they are unkillable?

 

well...yes, unless you're playing an "alternate" game where you're changing the story around, in which case, go nuts.

 

 

However...i suppose you could give them stats, but if they are ever fought, devise a scenario where they escape or something.

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I think it is just a preference thing for me.  I don't believe that the iconic characters should be unkillable or immune to character driven "things" that happen in an IP specific game like Star Wars.  BUT, I don't want them overtly published and mucking about in my games in a statted up way.  I don't care if two astromech droids wielding paperclips could take down Emperor Palpatine in-game.  I just don't need the distraction of "oh man my character is cooler than Vader!" or "ooooh look at Vader's stats, aren't they siiiiiick?"  If my characters come into conflict with an iconic persona, I'll come up with a challenge that is appropriate to the game we're playing and the situation at hand.  It might be a fully statted up fight, or it could be more handwavey.  The existence of officially published stats swings the "accepted" means of handling the situation out of an individual group's control.  I don't need a player coming to me in the middle of a session or afterward going "dude we totally could have taken Vader down.  You cheeeeated us!"

 

Even if FFG ends up statting up the iconics at some point I'll just ignore it, and be clear about my intent to do so with the people I play with. 

 

I've got 99 in-game problems, Vader's stats ain't one.

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If it doesn't have stats, it can still be killed. IMO, nothing should be inherently untouchable, not PCs that think they have plot immunity, not a GMPC, not even an "iconic character" of the setting.

 

I agree.  Anything *can* be 'killed'.

 

And something without stats can still be killed.  The trick is that it requires GM approval to 'kill' something which has no stats.  If you give fixed stats to a Super Star Destroyer, then players will (inevitably) find some way to destroy it.  Usually with an incredibly elaborate plan which relies on (and succeeds because of) incredible luck with the dice.

 

If you're not willing to have 'luck with the dice' be the reason why Emperor Palpetine's shuttle gets shot down over Mustafar while carrying the gravely wounded Vader, then you don't give that shuttle stats.  It's a cut scene, not a combat.  It's a background piece, not a participant.

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I don't see why they can't just print the stats and each GM either choose to use them or ignore them as they please.

 

I'd love for there to be official stats for all the iconics, but then I'm also happy for my characters to fight or kill them (if they can). I understand there are people out there who don't like this idea and I understand their reasons for it, but those people do have a choice not to use those rules.

 

For those of us who want those official rules I don't see why we should be "punished" by not having them available.

 

Just my 2 cents...   ;)

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Some of us were/are pointing to what "there being published stats out there" does to players, encouraging rollplaying instead of roleplaying...  :P

 

It only encourages ROLL playing over ROLE playing in a select few gamers, and those to those kinda of people perhaps roleplaying isn't for them. Maybe they should go back to their wargaming/board gaming and leave the roleplaying to the rest of us who actually get the point of RPG's  :D

 

And anyway, aren't we derailing the thread? The original poster wanted to know what Vaders stats would look like. If he'd wanted us to talk about whether it was right or wrong for him to have stats in the first place I'm sure the subject would have been quite different.

 

So just post some **** stats already!!  :lol:  :P

Edited by Space Monkey

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