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Drfunk91

Vehicle Test Stats: Sentinel

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So i'm considering using this for a session i'm planning out, stats for a Sentinel Walker.
 

Movement
F:10, B5, Side0, V0
Armour
F18,S14, R12
Cruising Speed:30Kph
Manoeuverability: +0
Availability: -30
Threat: 20

Open Topped, Walker, Powered (2), Size(3)

 

And one weapon option between Multilaser(from the Chimera's section), Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer
 

EDIT: Upgraded the armour rating.

 

Could I perhaps get some feedback?

Edited by Drfunk91

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Armor's a bit low, since the thing has no toughness bonus. Just a bit. How about 18/14/12? That ensures lasguns bounce off except for sometimes in the back, while plasma/melta will screw it up but good even outside of melta range.

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Good thought! Wanted to save Reinforced trait for "armoured" variants (along with removing the open topped), while leaving the exposed rear engine as a big "shoot me" target (in narrative i mean). Shall up the existing toughness on it.

 

My thoughts for the Movement on the other hand was a slow rear move more for the driver having a pretty big blind side and no spotter/commander to help guide it like in a tank. Was thinking of giving it a Side move with the same thought in mind, the carriage part facing one way with the legs pivoted the other. It's doable in the same way as a fork lift truck, but with keeping his eye on not getting shot, and not tripping the walker he'd be moving a lot slower. Or at least thats my thought. 

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Hi.

 

Speed seems around right. The armour rating you've given it seems a bit fierce, though. I don't have a reference point here -- I'm going off memories from a previous edition of TT so perhaps things have changed -- but should it really have significantly better armour than a Chimera? I remember Sentinels being quite light - more a quick and mildly resilient heavy weapons platform than they are an actual tank-style armoured vehicle.

 

As I say, my fluff might be out of date. Running the numbers, even if you hit it with a krak missile and got maximum damage, you wouldn't be able to take this thing down right away. Of course the DH2 rules don't really favour one-shotting things anyway, but just as a point of comparison, it's interesting. On average damage rolls, you could probably disable it with two krak missiles.

 

I think that I would be inclined to drop the armour down - especially on the side where it is way higher than the Chimera. But if my fluff is out of whack, then please correct me.

 

This does really make me want to stat up an Eldar War Walker, btw. :D

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The chimera got changed to 30/22/16 in the erata, so it's still thinner :P and don't forget, unless they've changed it "open topped" means the players can just shoot the driver (why worry about cracking the armour when there's a squishy fleshy bit to shoot?)

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The chimera got changed to 30/22/16 in the erata, so it's still thinner :P and don't forget, unless they've changed it "open topped" means the players can just shoot the driver (why worry about cracking the armour when there's a squishy fleshy bit to shoot?)

 

Ah, so it did! Don't mind me - I'll just go back to sleep.  :D

 

 

So.... 30 armour on the Chimera? That would be a tough beastie to take down with your forehead!

 

EDIT: A very tough beastie! Standing in front of that thing and firing krak missiles at it, you'd fire an average of seven missiles before even damaging it (which would do nothing, btw). You'd need to fire around 21 krak missiles on average to take the thing out. All this, of course, assuming that you hit every time.

Edited by knasserII

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The chimera got changed to 30/22/16 in the erata, so it's still thinner :P and don't forget, unless they've changed it "open topped" means the players can just shoot the driver (why worry about cracking the armour when there's a squishy fleshy bit to shoot?)

 

Ah, so it did! Don't mind me - I'll just go back to sleep.  :D

 

 

So.... 30 armour on the Chimera? That would be a tough beastie to take down with your forehead!

 

EDIT: A very tough beastie! Standing in front of that thing and firing krak missiles at it, you'd fire an average of seven missiles before even damaging it (which would do nothing, btw). You'd need to fire around 21 krak missiles on average to take the thing out. All this, of course, assuming that you hit every time.

 

Don't forget there's always more than one way to skin a cat in narrative form. You COULD sit firing missiles at it, however when GMing i'd also accept such things as "dropping a bridge on it" "getting it stuck somewhere handy" and any other number of things. I'd also be tempted to give them a bonus for exploding under it. 

 

Still with it's toughness I could see it being a fun "boss" type encounter for a scenario, being chased through tight alleyways by it before a nice big showdown (maybe getting an opportunity to take bits off as they go? Or something.) 

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The chimera got changed to 30/22/16 in the erata, so it's still thinner :P and don't forget, unless they've changed it "open topped" means the players can just shoot the driver (why worry about cracking the armour when there's a squishy fleshy bit to shoot?)

 

Ah, so it did! Don't mind me - I'll just go back to sleep.  :D

 

 

So.... 30 armour on the Chimera? That would be a tough beastie to take down with your forehead!

 

EDIT: A very tough beastie! Standing in front of that thing and firing krak missiles at it, you'd fire an average of seven missiles before even damaging it (which would do nothing, btw). You'd need to fire around 21 krak missiles on average to take the thing out. All this, of course, assuming that you hit every time.

 

Don't forget there's always more than one way to skin a cat in narrative form. You COULD sit firing missiles at it, however when GMing i'd also accept such things as "dropping a bridge on it" "getting it stuck somewhere handy" and any other number of things. I'd also be tempted to give them a bonus for exploding under it. 

 

Still with it's toughness I could see it being a fun "boss" type encounter for a scenario, being chased through tight alleyways by it before a nice big showdown (maybe getting an opportunity to take bits off as they go? Or something.) 

 

 

Oh sure, I would neither expect to throw a tank at my DH2 players and expect them to deal with it, nor, if I did, for them to deal with it by just sitting and firing missiles.

 

However, I feel there is something out of kilter with it averaging 21 krak missile shots to merely disable the Chimera. More really, considering that they're unlikely to hit every time.

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The chimera got changed to 30/22/16 in the erata, so it's still thinner :P and don't forget, unless they've changed it "open topped" means the players can just shoot the driver (why worry about cracking the armour when there's a squishy fleshy bit to shoot?)

 

Ah, so it did! Don't mind me - I'll just go back to sleep.  :D

 

 

So.... 30 armour on the Chimera? That would be a tough beastie to take down with your forehead!

 

EDIT: A very tough beastie! Standing in front of that thing and firing krak missiles at it, you'd fire an average of seven missiles before even damaging it (which would do nothing, btw). You'd need to fire around 21 krak missiles on average to take the thing out. All this, of course, assuming that you hit every time.

 

Don't forget there's always more than one way to skin a cat in narrative form. You COULD sit firing missiles at it, however when GMing i'd also accept such things as "dropping a bridge on it" "getting it stuck somewhere handy" and any other number of things. I'd also be tempted to give them a bonus for exploding under it. 

 

Still with it's toughness I could see it being a fun "boss" type encounter for a scenario, being chased through tight alleyways by it before a nice big showdown (maybe getting an opportunity to take bits off as they go? Or something.) 

 

 

Oh sure, I would neither expect to throw a tank at my DH2 players and expect them to deal with it, nor, if I did, for them to deal with it by just sitting and firing missiles.

 

However, I feel there is something out of kilter with it averaging 21 krak missile shots to merely disable the Chimera. More really, considering that they're unlikely to hit every time.

 

True enough, but what makes it worse for thought is that under the size example table, it references "land raider". Should we be safe in thinking front armour 50 or more for a beast like that going off the chimeras example? 

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True enough, but what makes it worse for thought is that under the size example table, it references "land raider". Should we be safe in thinking front armour 50 or more for a beast like that going off the chimeras example? 

 

 

Yes. And "more than" if in line with TT, unless things have changed in the latest editions. I'm going to write some analysis up on this as I think it's a problem.

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Yeah, looking at it from a scaling point of view DOES start to show a bit of a problem. Once you start approaching armour or 50 or 60, I can see Exterminatus on the horizon. 

 

On the other hand, there is the Reinforced trait. Could be a case of higher levels like the land raider having more "manageable" armour and balancing it by letting them reduce the critical breaches a bit better? I'd be more willing to accept armour of 30 or 40 on a LR, especially with the melta pen values. Maybe the Chimera should be lowered a bit. (As for keeping this on topic a little, I guess an Armoured sentinel could keep the armour values as is, and just trade Open Topped for Reinforced (1) maybe.

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i know they are different lines but the chimera in 2e seems to be the same as in only war. if both DH2e and OW are on the same power scale then the sentinel should have a armor rating of f 25, s15, b15. cruse speed of 45. man +10

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Does this problem come from the time when melta still ignored armour completely on short distance ?

Armour should be rebalanced a little in my oppinion, and should go down, but not too much.

Furthermore there should be introduced

A.) A weapon trait that makes the weapon more effective against vehicles (could be given to krak weapons)

B.) A talent that focusses on battling vehicles (like in only war: tank hunter)

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