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Karlson

Voice of Isengard Discussion

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Two mores games on #2 - a loss and a win.  So overall I'm about 50% using my best deck.  Also, I AM adjusting the deck pretty heavily for the quests.  I like both quests in that if you stumble the encounter deck - and especially the Time mechanic - can really punish you.  Quest 2 in particular attacks your deck in a totally new way and really required boarding.

 

I probably won't get to #3 for a couple of days.

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I played through all three quests two fisted with thematic (but strong) Gondor-Rohan decks that also make use of the new Isengard cards.  My heroes: Eowyn-Eleanor-Eomer and Strider-Imrahil-Theodred.  I put every single new card in the pack to good use, which was fun, and I didn't have to change my decks for any of the quests (though the second one would have been easier if I had).

The first quest is tough and tense, but manageable.  Very fun and replayable.

I lost the second quest six or seven times before I beat it.  Several times I got pounded into oblivion.  Other times I got really close, but lost.  It is the best designed quest, the most thematic, and the toughest.

I won the third quest in three rounds on my first try without knowing what was coming.  It was ridiculously easy and really straightforward. 

The added narrative sections are fun too, and the encounter card art is great.  Loved everything about the box but the third quest.

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I really liked these three quests! I built two decks between the three and while I don't think these are the hardest scenarios out there, I think we have plenty of those already. I'm glad this wasn't more HoN. I'm was getting kind of sick of round 2 defeats just because of a few bad cards popping up.

Edited by Chris51261

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Its sounding like third quest actually easier than Amon Din?

 

What is with the the difficulty ratings in this game  :blink:!? Would love to know what the criteria is.

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played all 3 three-player today.

 

quest 3 is rated the most difficult but is joke. won in it a two or three rounds.

 

quest 1 is probably the most difficult.

 

quest 2 is also somewhat difficult.

 

i will likely replay 1 and 2 - but 3 is a dud.

Do you think quest 3 is a number of players thing? Do you think it could be more difficult solo?

 

Quest 3 could be more difficult solo, if only because it can take a little longer to pile on progress.  Derek from The Grey Company podcast posted a pic on their Facebook page from a solo game in which he was down to one hero and two allies.  I plan on trying the quests out solo sometime, now that I've finished two-fisted.

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Beat first quest on second try and second quest on first try. Still need to play the last quest. In my experience (and I've found that difficulty in this game is really subjective), this box is definitely not on the same level as Heirs in terms of difficulty. That being said, I do really like the creative mechanics enough that I'll probably be inspired to play through the quests again quite a few times with different types of decks.

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Can someone try to grasp the design on the Saruman card that basically exiles a creature from the game. I know this is a mechanic that somehow finds its way into every cardgame as it's been in MtG, WoW, GoT recently, among others. But why on Saruman? Because they want him being played a lot, given the ability has always been quite awesome.

 

I'm guessing that - being a wizard - he can put an enemy into stasis or something. I haven't read the books though. Is there something you could see?

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That's a great question, and one that I've been pondering for awhile. I can think of a few possibilities:

 

1) Saruman is able to use his powers to foresee danger and help the heroes avoid it.

2) Saruman is already corrupt and actually in league with dark forces to some degree, so he can selectively manipulate them to clear the hero's path.

3) Saruman is known for being extremely persuasive (that's why the box is called "voice of isengard", because his voice is almost magical in its ability to persuade), so perhaps he "persuades" an enemy or location to get the heck out of the way.

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That's a great question, and one that I've been pondering for awhile. I can think of a few possibilities:

 

1) Saruman is able to use his powers to foresee danger and help the heroes avoid it.

2) Saruman is already corrupt and actually in league with dark forces to some degree, so he can selectively manipulate them to clear the hero's path.

3) Saruman is known for being extremely persuasive (that's why the box is called "voice of isengard", because his voice is almost magical in its ability to persuade), so perhaps he "persuades" an enemy or location to get the heck out of the way.

My thinking was always most aligned with #2.

Edited by joezim007

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I thought it had more to do with #3, but I can see the argument for #2.

 

Also, for what it's worth, I lost my first game of the third quest in four turns.  Kept a bad opening hand and got hit with two bad treacheries that I couldn't deal with.  (I was playing solo one handed with the same deck that I used on quest 2.  Will need more side boarding.)

Edited by Bullroarer Took

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That's a great question, and one that I've been pondering for awhile. I can think of a few possibilities:

1) Saruman is able to use his powers to foresee danger and help the heroes avoid it.

2) Saruman is already corrupt and actually in league with dark forces to some degree, so he can selectively manipulate them to clear the hero's path.

3) Saruman is known for being extremely persuasive (that's why the box is called "voice of isengard", because his voice is almost magical in its ability to persuade), so perhaps he "persuades" an enemy or location to get the heck out of the way.

Hmmm, my thinking was always #3 really.

Never thought of other possibilities.

Though #2 sounds like a good bet too.

Edited by Noccus

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It'll be very interesting to see how the general fan base responds to easier quests this time around. If you were around here when HoN released, there was a firestorm of complaint over how hard the quests were. I wonder if the designers took that to heart and dialed it down a little (or a lot!)?  I can see the designers shaking their heads in disbelief if the majority of people complain about easy quests  :wacko:

Raven1015 likes this

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I can only speak for the first two quests and I don't think they are that much easier frankly. Remember that we didn't have any of the AtS cards at the release of Heirs, or Black Riders either I believe. If I lose those cards from my decks I think things are about the same. Furthermore, I'll admit my skin had thickened since Heirs as it forced me to build really powerful decks and expect to lose more.

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yes I remember that Style75, I was a fairly new player at the time and aforementioned flames of complaint almost put me off the game for good. You may have thought the world was ending.

 

I think that Heirs was only a show stopper until people figured out that they needed to majorly rethink their decks to allow for the new mechanics. I don't think that VoI was ever going to really stump people the same way. As even if it was/is? comparably as hard a lot of players will already have in mind that, new mechanics may mean not just tweaking but major deck rethinking/building... and once you know the 'trick' to a quest they are generally quite straight forward to build for.

 

The designers are in a tough spot as they are wanting to keep bringing new people into the game & keep the existing players all Larry like... Hopefully easy mode helps... or maybe introduce a super easy mode ...and harder Quests ;)

Edited by chuckles

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For at least a little while, I see quests just being very different rather than really escalating in difficulty for a few reasons:

 

1) The more you escalate the power of the quests, the more you need to escalate the power of the card pool. This would cause the power gap between the core set and the latest sets to be too large.

 

2) Nightmare and Easy modes were promoted more after Heirs of Numenor was released, so the designers can allow those play modes to do the greater adjustments to the game difficulty instead of just escalating the difficulty of quests as we go.

 

3) The game seems to be header toward more trait-based and synergistic decks with slightly weaker player cards to offer more options instead of increasing the power of the cards.

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 I can see the designers shaking their heads in disbelief if the majority of people complain about easy quests  :wacko:

 

to be clear, i'm not complaining (and i know you weren't specifically saying i was).

 

it is a bit of a let down to win a quest on the first go without really knowing what you are doing (a la the 3rd quest in the box). we did have to replay the 1st and 2nd but still managed victories without tweaking decks.

 

i think the quests are fun and interesting enough to replay. and that's the most important thing to me, at this point. not every quest has to smash my head in, but on the flip side, i don't think we need anymore quests that can be won in a couple turns on your first try w/o tweaking decks (and yet somehow it got the highest difficulty rating...).

Glowwyrm and chuckles like this

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What kind of decks are you guys using to get turn 3 wins on Into Fangorn? Are you playing solo or two handed? Anyone feel like writing a round report?

Because if you can't tell, I'm getting beat. But I guess my deck does struggle a bit with early willpower.

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What kind of decks are you guys using to get turn 3 wins on Into Fangorn? Are you playing solo or two handed? Anyone feel like writing a round report?

Because if you can't tell, I'm getting beat. But I guess my deck does struggle a bit with early willpower.

i haven't played solo in years, as i don't really think you get a "full" gaming experience that way. encounter decks simply don't "shine" when you only flip one card.

 

so, i played these quests 3 player. one player was leadership-ish dwarves (dain, thorin, bifur), i used designer-Matt's rohan deck posted on the site (well, a tweaked version of it), and the 3rd player used mono-tactics, if i remember correctly.

 

so yes, you do need a decent amount of willpower, between the dwarves and some rohan WP, we blasted through it and the tactics player could take a tree or two down to reduce threat slightly. :)

Bullroarer Took likes this

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What kind of decks are you guys using to get turn 3 wins on Into Fangorn? Are you playing solo or two handed? Anyone feel like writing a round report?

Because if you can't tell, I'm getting beat. But I guess my deck does struggle a bit with early willpower.

i haven't played solo in years, as i don't really think you get a "full" gaming experience that way. encounter decks simply don't "shine" when you only flip one card.

 

so, i played these quests 3 player. one player was leadership-ish dwarves (dain, thorin, bifur), i used designer-Matt's rohan deck posted on the site (well, a tweaked version of it), and the 3rd player used mono-tactics, if i remember correctly.

 

so yes, you do need a decent amount of willpower, between the dwarves and some rohan WP, we blasted through it and the tactics player could take a tree or two down to reduce threat slightly. :)

so you use dwarfs? Of course everything will be easy with them until you play NM.....

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What kind of decks are you guys using to get turn 3 wins on Into Fangorn? Are you playing solo or two handed? Anyone feel like writing a round report?

Because if you can't tell, I'm getting beat. But I guess my deck does struggle a bit with early willpower.

i haven't played solo in years, as i don't really think you get a "full" gaming experience that way. encounter decks simply don't "shine" when you only flip one card.

 

so, i played these quests 3 player. one player was leadership-ish dwarves (dain, thorin, bifur), i used designer-Matt's rohan deck posted on the site (well, a tweaked version of it), and the 3rd player used mono-tactics, if i remember correctly.

 

so yes, you do need a decent amount of willpower, between the dwarves and some rohan WP, we blasted through it and the tactics player could take a tree or two down to reduce threat slightly. :)

so you use dwarfs? Of course everything will be easy with them until you play NM.....

 

to be clear, i personally did not use dwarves. :P

Glaurung likes this

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I can attest to Dain, the third quest is a little easy, but I am assuming it would be more difficult if you were forced to go to stage 3 (if you are quick enough you can breeze by it and avoid a lot of trouble).

 

However, if you are wanting to up the challenge, you can just house-rule that the Huorn enemies do attack during the combat phase in addition to their hinder key word. That would make the quest very, very, difficult, in my opinion, because they have such a high attack strength and are really difficult to kill. I think I am going to try that out as a bit of "nightmare" mode.

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What kind of decks are you guys using to get turn 3 wins on Into Fangorn? Are you playing solo or two handed? Anyone feel like writing a round report?

Because if you can't tell, I'm getting beat. But I guess my deck does struggle a bit with early willpower.

For the third quest, two-fisted I used a Rohan deck and a Gondor/Loragorn deck that pumped out willpower with Eowyn/Rohan allies for one and with lots of allies and Sword that was Broken for the other.  The Lore and Leadership doomed cards made the victory easy, because they jump-started both decks.

SPOILERS but, the quest three is really thematic.  If a bunch of trees attack you, and you run away really fast, you'll probably be ok. 

And no complaints about the box except for quest three, only because it was so simple to solve.  Art is great, player cards are great, first two quests are great, storyline is great, theme is great.  A great box, and one of the best purchases in the game I've made. 

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Played Into Fangorn twice tonight and I beat it both times without too much trouble. I hate to say it, but it is a bit easy, mostly because the Huorns don't attack and so you can just quest like crazy and there's only two real quest stages. I'm not slamming the quest, but I just wish it was a bit more difficult, as I really love the idea behind the quest.

 

For the record, two-handed with Frodo/Eowyn/Glor on one side and Eomer/Beregond/Imrahil on the other. Second game, I replaced the mono-Spirit deck with Grima/Glor/Loragorn.

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