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jgt7771

Is this just "AH Pandemic" with slightly more cards and rules?

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Obviously I'm jumping the cosmic gun and just knee-jerking, but I bet I'll enjoy this more than Mansions. My Co-op Cult might as well. So bring it, FFG...let's see whatcha got.

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In what ways does it resemble Pandemic? Remeber AH did co-op before Pandemic and every game that has a global map (like RISK) can't be Pandemic so what is similar?

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Well, it seems like the "Mythos Phase" spawns more than Clues to track down, and the Investigators will have to stop the spread of Eldritch-ness, in addition to tracking down Clues and equipment, and using abilities. Maybe I'm missing some rules, but that seems a bit like Pandemic to me.

Hey, I'm still gonna buy it. I obsessively collect one-player co-op games.

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Right, I dig, I'm not "hatin'" its just folks keep saying "like Pandemic" but don't include specifics. Everything you've listed occurs in Arkham Horror which came before Pandemic correct? So other than "co-op" and "world map", Eldritch Horror has little in common with Pandemic.

What makes Pandemic, Pandemic is the way the infection of cities works out. Its directly tied to a clever-card mechanism that feeds back on itself. Player success in figuring out how to win is also tied to a deck of cards which can arrange themselves in such away as to have games that can never be won.

Arkham Horror, Elder Sign, and Eldritch Horror does not have the same feedback mechanism and player choice and actions are tied to dice-mechanics than can prevent what I describe above.

So Eldritch Horror is nothing like Pandemic, at least not anymore than Pandemic is like Arkham Horror (which no one ever says).

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Yeah, I agree it doesn't seem like Pandemic at all.  In a way, I kind of wish it did, though, as this game seems more like an "experience" type of game and less where the choices and problem-solving really matter.  Arkham Horror is very much experience oriented, but also has a good amount of decisions and problem-solving and risk/resource management.  It's possible I'm wrong, and EH does have more important choices than it seems, but the look of it seems to be more of the nature where you run around doing things and see what happens and are amused by the various story elements.  That can be very entertaining, mind you, and if so I'll enjoy it, regardless, but I'm hoping there's more of an actual "game" to it, as well.  In Pandemic, you really need to work things out and make the most of every character and the way they interact together.  There's a lot of very important decision-making and planning.  I wasn't necessarily looking for that with EH, but it would be nice if it ends up leaning a bit in that direction.  Doesn't seem so, but I could be wrong.

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Seriously guys, it's Agents of S.M.E.R.S.H.

 

I had not really heard of the game and when someone said it looked like a re-theme I took a look. If it had the encounter book that would seal it. But that's where the expansions come in.

 

Check out AoS. You will be surprised.

 

And did anyone else see any of the video from GenCon? It looks like a lot of the components are from AH.

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I think Eldritch Horror will be its own game, with a distinct feel and identity.

 

 Arkham Horror is very much experience oriented, but also has a good amount of decisions and problem-solving and risk/resource management.  It's possible I'm wrong, and EH does have more important choices than it seems, but the look of it seems to be more of the nature where you run around doing things and see what happens and are amused by the various story elements. 

...

In Pandemic, you really need to work things out and make the most of every character and the way they interact together.  There's a lot of very important decision-making and planning.  I wasn't necessarily looking for that with EH, but it would be nice if it ends up leaning a bit in that direction.  Doesn't seem so, but I could be wrong.

I know that Richard Lanius has commented that while he think Pandemic is a good game, he feels its more of a puzzle than a game. Which is why he prefers, as you put it, the "experience" aspect of Arkham, Defenders, Elder Sign ect. He'd rather have a lot of things for players to do than have the one think they MUST do. I agree that Pandemic can have a huge "alpha-player" problem where that person dictates what goes on.
 

 

Seriously guys, it's Agents of S.M.E.R.S.H.

...

And did anyone else see any of the video from GenCon? It looks like a lot of the components are from AH.

I agree that AoS and EH are closer together, but AoS would be Arkham Horror if it used story cards instead of a book, no?

Small aside, at this point so many games are being produced by companies and Kickstarter than I think no one is going to invent something totally new. And a lot of games are going to be "flavors" of each other. For instance, I love Lords of Waterdeep but really its nothing that other worker placement games haven't done. However, I love fighting beholders and the undead with fighters and wizards more than trading for salted cod and spice.

So, perhaps we should first judge games by thier own merit THEN argue about them in context of similar games in the same family.

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I think Eldritch Horror will be its own game, with a distinct feel and identity.

 

 Arkham Horror is very much experience oriented, but also has a good amount of decisions and problem-solving and risk/resource management.  It's possible I'm wrong, and EH does have more important choices than it seems, but the look of it seems to be more of the nature where you run around doing things and see what happens and are amused by the various story elements. 

...

In Pandemic, you really need to work things out and make the most of every character and the way they interact together.  There's a lot of very important decision-making and planning.  I wasn't necessarily looking for that with EH, but it would be nice if it ends up leaning a bit in that direction.  Doesn't seem so, but I could be wrong.

I know that Richard Lanius has commented that while he think Pandemic is a good game, he feels its more of a puzzle than a game. Which is why he prefers, as you put it, the "experience" aspect of Arkham, Defenders, Elder Sign ect. He'd rather have a lot of things for players to do than have the one think they MUST do. I agree that Pandemic can have a huge "alpha-player" problem where that person dictates what goes on.

 

 

Seriously guys, it's Agents of S.M.E.R.S.H.

...

And did anyone else see any of the video from GenCon? It looks like a lot of the components are from AH.

I agree that AoS and EH are closer together, but AoS would be Arkham Horror if it used story cards instead of a book, no?

Small aside, at this point so many games are being produced by companies and Kickstarter than I think no one is going to invent something totally new. And a lot of games are going to be "flavors" of each other. For instance, I love Lords of Waterdeep but really its nothing that other worker placement games haven't done. However, I love fighting beholders and the undead with fighters and wizards more than trading for salted cod and spice.

So, perhaps we should first judge games by thier own merit THEN argue about them in context of similar games in the same family.

You missed the point there. The Encounter Book is only included in certain copies of AoS. As it stands with the smaller amount of encounter cards EH is a straight across cousin. They wouldn't include a book with 1600 encounters in it because then who would need to buy any expansions?

 

And I'm not talking about games having similar themes. My problem is the recycling of material over and over and selling it back to us. My 'recycled' game buying days are over. I did my Elder Sign (and got off cheap on it).

 

And if I have said it once I have said it a thousand times - if this were set say in modern times or a Gaslight version that might be one thing. But 2 years in the future? 1928? You know how much things change between 1926 and 1928? They don't. They never stop reminding us how it is the 'sister' to AH, 'inspired' by AH, made to sit on the same shelf beside AH, etc. That doesn't sound like a new game standing on its own two legs to me.

 

They got one thing right...the forums were full of folks saying they wouldn't buy a 're-booted' AH so they just changed the name. Now you have loads of people lining up to buy. And if it doesn't pan out they still have AH. But both will not remain in print.

 

My single and only concern is that a new player (like I just helped the other day) be able to buy the game for a reasonable price and not $200 on eBay like Descent went for with it's 're-boot'. I want AH to stay in print. I see people saying they wouldn't 'cannibalize' their sales of AH for EH but that is exactly what it will do. I've already seen the first thread for 'Do I buy AH or EH' and the game isn't even here yet.

 

I don't want or need a new game system. I already own THE Lovecraft board game of board games. I want support from the company that I gave several hundred dollars to for that system. That is my concern. They can build all the toy games they want or other Lovecraft products. I just would like to hear a straight answer to a straight question - is AH going to remain in print or not? Are they going to continue to support it with expansions (and before I get the  'how many expansions does it need' thrown in my face check and see how many have been released for CoC: LCG and I'll use that as a starting figure) or not.They may not have a deadline on that question, but I do.

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I don't want or need a new game system. I already own THE Lovecraft board game of board games. I want support from the company that I gave several hundred dollars to for that system. That is my concern. They can build all the toy games they want or other Lovecraft products. I just would like to hear a straight answer to a straight question - is AH going to remain in print or not? Are they going to continue to support it with expansions (and before I get the  'how many expansions does it need' thrown in my face check and see how many have been released for CoC: LCG and I'll use that as a starting figure) or not.They may not have a deadline on that question, but I do.

 

Is AH going to remain in print? I would assume that as long as it makes money it will remain in print. They will not continue to support it with expansions, the last being Miskatonic Horror- a big box expansion to tie all the other expansions (how ever you chose to use them) together with the base game. Arkham Horror is done. You will not get any further support in the way you want.

Since CoC: LCG is a different model system it has a different number of expansions and lifespan. But given Netrunner, Star Wars and Game of Thrones I wouldn't be suprised if it faded out. But I don't know the current popularity of all the LCGs is at the moment.

 

As for your "recycled" game days, my point still stands. Give how many games are being produced these days you are going to get something recycled- theme, mechanics, or both. For this long time Arkham Horror player, I think Eldritch Horror will be a great way to retain the fun of AH without all the parts that slowed it down as well as provide a better design space via learning from mistakes in AH.

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I've watched the demos from GenCon.  In no way does this replace AH.  I totally see it as a companion game.  It is less "in-depth" than AH, and looks like it will play faster than AH.

 

EH will be good for times when we don't have the space or time for AH, but it will never replace AH.

 

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I've watched the demos from GenCon.  In no way does this replace AH.  I totally see it as a companion game.  It is less "in-depth" than AH, and looks like it will play faster than AH.

 

EH will be good for times when we don't have the space or time for AH, but it will never replace AH.

More or less what I was thinking, although I'm not planning to buy EH unless it's significantly different from AH. A sister may be a bit too similar.

I can't see AH going out of print while it is still the best selling game. I'm also not convinced we have seen the last of AH expansions. I agree the game doesn't require any more expansions, but if there is still a demand, why not? I'd buy a lot more. No reason a new expansion would sell less copies than any of the others; people don't necessarily buy the old ones first.

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I can't see AH going out of print while it is still the best selling game.

 

See, that is the business part that people still aren't taking into account. It's not about sales.It's about profit margins. The game is expensive to produce and ship. EH will cost less to make and ship and sells for the same price.

 

Games like Arkham are not Monopoly. They don't stay in print without support. So even though Arkham is FFG's best selling product line ever (their own quote - twice -from GenCon In-Flight program) it has to be dealt with. It doesn't matter if it sells 10,000 copies a month if at the end of the day the profit margin isn't there. That's business.

 

I think there are many solutions to that problem and my disappointment comes in the way they are not exploring any of those options.

 

I will say it will be the last product I buy from them and the only item I will purchase from them in the future would be playable content for the game. And even that has a deadline. The clock is ticking.

Edited by suicidepuppet

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The difference between Arkham and Pandemic isn't so much in the card mechanic. It's mostly in how you lose.

 

In games like Pandemic, flash point, forbidden island, etc, the condition of the game deteriorates as time goes on. As time passes the board gets messier and messier as it fills with cubes and you struggle to slow down the torrent while exhausting your resources.

 

In arkham, you can have a stable, effective team who has things under control, but still lose. Things don't necessarily get worse, you just suddenly lose when the doom track fills. You actually build up and become more powerful as the game progresses, preparing yourself for greater threats.

 

If Arkham were like pandemic, then when the game ended the board would probably be covered in portals and monsters, the investigators all but dead with most of their items used up and gone. You CAN lose the game in this way, but for the most part it's the doom track filling up that causes a loss. Arkham is like trying to defuse a time bomb, pandemic is like trying to win a battle.

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I played the Demo at GenCon and it definitely had a different feel than AH. AH feels claustrophobic to me, especially since the streets are unsafe most of the time. This games has more of an Indiana Jones feel.

I didn't get to play as much as I'd like, so I don't know how you win/lose, really. But I did like the new mechanic I think of as the Devil's Bargain. It was like taking a loan from the demonic mafia.

My only concern, and it is minor, is that I already have Elder Sign and AH. I haven't even tried Mansions of Madness yet. So as much as I love the genre... how many more games do I feel like playing in it?

That being said, my wife already assumes I have it on pre-order and intend to play it with her pretty much when it comes out. She seemed to like it more than AH almost immediately.

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Is this just "AH Pandemic" with slightly more cards and rules?

 

Yes. Wonderfully so. :D

 

Really?  Having played it now, it's nothing like either of those games.  Well, it's something like AH, of course, but very watered down, to the point of almost no meaningful decisions.  But it's nothing at all like Pandemic.

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Is this just "AH Pandemic" with slightly more cards and rules?

 

Yes. Wonderfully so. :D

 

Really?  Having played it now, it's nothing like either of those games.  Well, it's something like AH, of course, but very watered down, to the point of almost no meaningful decisions.  But it's nothing at all like Pandemic.

 

 

Agreed ^^.  It has some of the feel of AH, but I cannot fathom any sort of comparison to Pandemic in feel or mechanics. The only thing I see "in common" is that both their boards depict the world, which can be said for a lot of games.

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EH summons a lot of common feelings with Pandemic if you ask me. That said, to each his own.

 

- You "build the Mythos deck" in a very similar fashion, with custom stages by GOO.

- It can be argued that "Solve 3 mysteries" is really similar to "cure 4 diseases", only with means to do it that vary much more..

- Mythos cards have a "feel" closer to Pandemic than AH's Mythos cards: definite symbolic, very concrete (and discrete) effects.

- Again, actions for investigators and their interactions are very clearly defined (Travel/Prepare|Charter/Acquire|Cure/Trade, etc.)

- You get a lot of the feeling of "splitting tasks between characters" (you cure, I find cards, Bob researches).

- You also get the feeling of "running somewhere before it bursts", for instance when you expect a Monster Surge on the next Omen symbol,

 

On my side, over the years I've found AH to be a bloated, convoluted game with false pretense of strategy (If I want real strategy I'll go over to Mage Knight). So I guess that evens out. Point is I'm having much more fun playing EH than I've ever had playing AH, in a lot less time. ;)

Edited by LexMajor
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