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Another Character Generator

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At the risk of being a pest, is there a list of which books are currently supported? I'd like to wait to update until all the EotE and AoR books are folded in. I checked Ogg's FAQ and didn't see anything; I suspect I may be missing it?

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13 minutes ago, gwek said:

At the risk of being a pest, is there a list of which books are currently supported? I'd like to wait to update until all the EotE and AoR books are folded in. I checked Ogg's FAQ and didn't see anything; I suspect I may be missing it?

There is no 'official' list yet, but I can go ahead and tell you: the only books that aren't supported yet are Dawn of Rebellion, Unlimited Power, Knights of Fate, and Cyphers and Masks. Also, Disciples of Harmony is mostly supported, but OggDude lacks a detailed Mentor generator (you can fudge it a bit with generic NPC creation, but he doesn't have all the options regarding the different 'societies' Mentors can come from, not to mention the process is even more detailed than making an Inquisitor).

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34 minutes ago, gwek said:

At the risk of being a pest, is there a list of which books are currently supported? I'd like to wait to update until all the EotE and AoR books are folded in. I checked Ogg's FAQ and didn't see anything; I suspect I may be missing it?

He has everything up to desciples of harmony. Fully Operational is in but has some bugs...

Get the web install version. It will keep up to date...

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I'd love it if I could just get a copy encounter button like the copy stat block so I don't have to go to the print preview, take and crop a screenshot for each page.

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13 minutes ago, RogueJedi said:

I'd love it if I could just get a copy encounter button like the copy stat block so I don't have to go to the print preview, take and crop a screenshot for each page.

What are you trying to accomplish? Cause im pretty sure what you want can be done now easier than what you are doing 

Edited by Daeglan

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2 hours ago, RogueJedi said:

I'd love it if I could just get a copy encounter button like the copy stat block so I don't have to go to the print preview, take and crop a screenshot for each page.

Can't you just print to PDF?

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16 hours ago, Daeglan said:

He has everything up to desciples of harmony. Fully Operational is in but has some bugs...

Get the web install version. It will keep up to date...

If I make changes - I've made extensive changes, including manually deleting a lot of core equipment and most species - would the web install version overwrite those changes?

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6 minutes ago, gwek said:

If I make changes - I've made extensive changes, including manually deleting a lot of core equipment and most species - would the web install version overwrite those changes?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Assuming you’re using the Data Editor to make changes, all of those changes are stored in a separate folder called DataCustom, which isn’t touched by software updates. That doesn’t preclude data conflicts if you’ve added new items and OggDude uses the same item key, but does it differently. Overall, though, you should be fine. If you’re concerned, you can always tell it not to update yet, and then make a copy of your DataCustom folder before updating.

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12 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

Can't you just print to PDF?

Just as much / more work, see below.

 

14 hours ago, Daeglan said:

What are you trying to accomplish? Cause im pretty sure what you want can be done now easier than what you are doing 

Copy the encounter blocks into OneNote. With stat blocks it's one click, for some reason this is different.

Edited by RogueJedi

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2 hours ago, RogueJedi said:

Just as much / more work, see below.

 

Copy the encounter blocks into OneNote. With stat blocks it's one click, for some reason this is different.

Just print them to the onenote printer

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On 8/24/2018 at 7:30 PM, Daeglan said:

Just print them to the onenote printer

Still more work than just having the stat block feature that multiple other areas already have. I'd fix it myself if I could, but he hasn't open sourced it for some reason.

Speaking of, there seems to be a bug in the Equipment stat block button. It will not display a stat block for "owned" instances if they are focused, it simply does nothing.

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12 hours ago, RogueJedi said:

Still more work than just having the stat block feature that multiple other areas already have. I'd fix it myself if I could, but he hasn't open sourced it for some reason.

He’s been very forthcoming regarding the reason it’s not open source. The project began as a means of him learning to code. As a result, there’s some ugly, bashed together code, especially early on, that he’s reluctant to correct because it works, and fixing it could have a domino effect of failures to other areas.

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37 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

He’s been very forthcoming regarding the reason it’s not open source. The project began as a means of him learning to code. As a result, there’s some ugly, bashed together code, especially early on, that he’s reluctant to correct because it works, and fixing it could have a domino effect of failures to other areas.

I really wish people didn't feel this way about sharing 'bad' code. There's a ton of promising projects that just die, because they were never shared because the author was embarrassed by the quality of their old code and never shared it. In academia this is a serious issue- a PhD student learns to program on the job and is ashamed of the quality of their code so never shares it, writes a few papers, then leaves and their work can never be replicated or built on without hiring someone to spend another few years re-writing the same thing from scratch.

Obvs it doesn't help that some people *can* be kind of jerks about code quality but... :(.

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Well said Talkie Toaster, very well said. I think Oggy here is scared of letting out the code not because its a huge mess, but because it simply works. He's scared, and might I add, rightly so, that if others poke at it, what works the way it does, wont work as it should and currently does.

Aty least, that is how I see it. Dont get me wrong, people can indeed be jerks when it comes to quality coding, but for me, how Oggy got this generator working so well as it does, that in and of it self, is Kriffing Magic and its good enough for me :)

So to that I say

THANK YOU OGGDUDE FOR THIS GENERATOR!

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2 hours ago, Ni Fang said:

Well said Talkie Toaster, very well said. I think Oggy here is scared of letting out the code not because its a huge mess, but because it simply works. He's scared, and might I add, rightly so, that if others poke at it, what works the way it does, wont work as it should and currently does.

Aty least, that is how I see it. Dont get me wrong, people can indeed be jerks when it comes to quality coding, but for me, how Oggy got this generator working so well as it does, that in and of it self, is Kriffing Magic and its good enough for me :)

So to that I say

THANK YOU OGGDUDE FOR THIS GENERATOR!

There's this thing called version control, GIT is a good example, and there are sites like http://GIThub.com which would take take of the management and sharing for him. It works with MS code too https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/introvideos/versioncontrol .  

Oggdudes Generator is an invaluable resource, but things like him not logging on for months at a time, and having this thread go on for pages wondering what happened to him, could be a sign that there needs to be more community envolvement.

Edited by Eoen

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There doesn’t “need” to be.

There could be.

If he chooses to invite collaboration, which he’s under no obligation to do.

Meanwhile, there’s nothing stopping those who have volunteered to collaborate from coming up with their own take on it.

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8 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

There doesn’t “need” to be.

There could be.

If he chooses to invite collaboration, which he’s under no obligation to do.

Meanwhile, there’s nothing stopping those who have volunteered to collaborate from coming up with their own take on it.

I'm not here to give anyone orders.  By need I mean there is a need. It's preferable to be up to date with the current sprawling state of the game, and his generator is the only game in town.  Because of licensing issues it is unlikely there will ever be a competitor commercial or otherwise.

There is something to stop people from volunteering: the close source nature of the project, and it's depth of material will discourage anything else from being developed as they would be hundreds of man hours behind.

Edited by Eoen

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On 8/28/2018 at 12:44 PM, Nytwyng said:

He’s been very forthcoming regarding the reason it’s not open source. The project began as a means of him learning to code. As a result, there’s some ugly, bashed together code, especially early on, that he’s reluctant to correct because it works, and fixing it could have a domino effect of failures to other areas.

On 7/23/2018 at 2:54 PM, RogueJedi said:

I've seen this mentioned a couple times and I hate to say it but it's false. Open sourcing it doesn't mean anyone can just start making changes to the primary version that OggDude distributes, you'd submit your changes to OggDude who can then review them, ask for changes, reject, or approve them. Just because it's a mess doesn't mean others can't grok it and help clean it up or make improvements without "BAD THINGS" happening. He's managed to create the primary tool for this game that people turn to, so there are already people (like me) who are ready and willing to help. What better way to continue learning than reviewing outside contributions? 

 

23 hours ago, Eoen said:

[..] and it's depth of material will discourage anything else from being developed as they would be hundreds of man hours behind.

Exactly this. I have considered writing my own, but it's a pretty large undertaking to sell myself on when OggDude's is sitting right here so I'd rather not.

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On 8/28/2018 at 8:01 PM, Eoen said:

I'm not here to give anyone orders.  By need I mean there is a need. It's preferable to be up to date with the current sprawling state of the game, and his generator is the only game in town.  Because of licensing issues it is unlikely there will ever be a competitor commercial or otherwise.

There is something to stop people from volunteering: the close source nature of the project, and it's depth of material will discourage anything else from being developed as they would be hundreds of man hours behind.

 

19 hours ago, RogueJedi said:

Exactly this. I have considered writing my own, but it's a pretty large undertaking to sell myself on when OggDude's is sitting right here so I'd rather not.

Clearly you folks just need to start an open source character generator on Github and enlist every person in this thread who's ever asked OggDude to make it open source to help. Combine it with harvesting all the data in the app already (like the makers of this webapp did) to overcome the "depth of material" problem and I bet you'll catch up in no time.

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1 minute ago, Kaigen said:

 

Clearly you folks just need to start an open source character generator on Github and enlist every person in this thread who's ever asked OggDude to make it open source to help. Combine it with harvesting all the data in the app already (like the makers of this webapp did) to overcome the "depth of material" problem and I bet you'll catch up in no time.

I noticed that irony: with quite a few people asking over time for OggDude to make it open source, they all seem to shy away from starting from scratch, citing the amount of work it would take.

But...isn’t that one of the points of doing it open source? To spread the work load among more people?

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21 hours ago, FLHTCU said:

But the final decision sits with Oggdude, regardless of how much we may wish otherwise.

So we shouldn't try to convince him?

 

19 hours ago, Kaigen said:

Clearly you folks just need to start an open source character generator on Github and enlist every person in this thread who's ever asked OggDude to make it open source to help. Combine it with harvesting all the data in the app already (like the makers of this webapp did) to overcome the "depth of material" problem and I bet you'll catch up in no time.

 

19 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

I noticed that irony: with quite a few people asking over time for OggDude to make it open source, they all seem to shy away from starting from scratch, citing the amount of work it would take.

But...isn’t that one of the points of doing it open source? To spread the work load among more people?

The reality is more complicated than this though. The fact of the matter is OggDude's doesn't have enough wrong with it that it's necessarily worth going through the effort of rebuilding just to get it open source and fix a couple things. Complaints about the software are minor and the data is "open". Until he disappears altogether or the app becomes more trouble than it's worth, I doubt you'll see much traction on a new effort. Especially not while people hold out hope that he might open source it. Admittedly I haven't read all nearly 400 pages of the thread, but I've only seen other people talk about a single position he apparently held or holds on the issue. 

Stuff like "go do it yourself then" doesn't seem very constructive to me. I want to help OggDude, not take the ball away.

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6 minutes ago, RogueJedi said:

So we shouldn't try to convince him?

To quote Admiral James T. Kirk, “You may ask.” ?

So far, he’s seemed pretty well settled on keeping it closed for the reasons mentioned. But, no...no reason you shouldn’t state your case. Just like there’s no reason not to point out his existing responses to the request. Fair enough for both sides, right?

10 minutes ago, RogueJedi said:

The reality is more complicated than this though. The fact of the matter is OggDude's doesn't have enough wrong with it that it's necessarily worth going through the effort of rebuilding just to get it open source and fix a couple things. Complaints about the software are minor and the data is "open". Until he disappears altogether or the app becomes more trouble than it's worth, I doubt you'll see much traction on a new effort. Especially not while people hold out hope that he might open source it. Admittedly I haven't read all nearly 400 pages of the thread, but I've only seen other people talk about a single position he apparently held or holds on the issue. 

Fair enough points. The thread is pretty dense, and sifting through to find a small handful of posts can be an undertaking. (I know this from experience, looking for any one of about four posts with some info I was looking for last weekend.)

The vibe I get is that he’s not inclined to change his mind on the issue. Not because he’s “embarrassed” of the old, bashed together code as one person suggested. But because he knows what shortcuts and happy accidents are in that code making him best equipped to build on it, and even the best of intentions in correcting those things could bring down the whole house of cards.

Honest question: If one of the factors of the open source crowd not working on a new tool is holding out hope that he’ll open it, and he’s pretty consistently declined the request, aren’t they getting in their own way in that respect?

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