Edge of the Empire: Alternative Mechanics House Rules

[Josep Maria 685]

Greetings people!

 

EotE is from my point if view one of the best RPG games I ever played (I love cinematic style games) but there are a few things that I would prefer that be a better different.

 

I would like to know if anyone more would like to improve/change something from the game and also opinion about the alternatives I propose.

 

First one, I don't like level or class mechanics in games. Edge doesn't have levels but it has class system. I would like to forget "carrier" restrictions and let characters access to all options, but I'm not sure about if add some extra XP cost anything or just give a less XP.

 

The other one is that I don't like so much "Characteristics" on games. For example, a character with Brawn 5 AUTOMATICALLY knows how to fight properly with 5 dices without having so much problems.

This part its a bit difficult compared with the class option so, I'm not sure about how to change/alternate this option without breaking the game stability.

 

Thanks and please add your alternatives too please

Edited August 21, 2013 by Josep Maria

[Skie 209]

A character with Brawn 5 is very strong and hits hard, but without the skill he doesn't know how to hit vital points (no yellow dice - no crits). It suits the cinematic style - a martial arts-oriented hero beating up a much larger, but not so skilled opponent.

[Josep Maria 685]

Hello Skie!

 

Yep, I understand that a Brawn 5 can hit very hard and do so much damage but, also have more precision? The same case to other skills that can seem a bit overpowered, but the other ones could be fine to me. The main matter seem Agility and Brawn over combat.

[Krieger22 2,471]

Really? You find the class system restrictive? Everyone can learn all skills and all talent trees, what's so restrictive about that? The almost negligible increase in XP cost for non-career skills? This is one of the most open and flexible systems I've ever seen.

 

And I'm not quite sure I follow you on "not liking characteristics". Every time you attempt a roll it's a mix of characteristic and skill. If you remove the characteristic bit you also change the entire game system into something else. You might as well save yourself the effort and buy another system instead. Maybe something D20-based would be more to your liking?

[Josep Maria 685]

Yep. I mean, why if I'm a policeman I will have problems about learning to sing something or cooking? If I work about about 6-8 hours a day and I spend 8 more sleeping, why I have to spend more XP in something I practice between 6-8 hours a day just because it isn't "my class"?

 

About freedom, D6 and M&M where probably more free than Edge in that terms.

 

No more d20 please XD Don't misunderstand, I love Edge and even the characteristics, I like the "common heroic concept" that they introduced, but, why if I have a really strong guy, capable of lifting even a ton, I will hit the best duelists just because my Brawl its 5 or 6 with NO idea about combat?

 

I will accept that part because the rest of the entire game is just awesome! But I always hope that there is someone with a brilliant alternative idea to share.

 

So again, ideas are welcome

[osu4fan 28]

Spending XP earned on the skills that are using represents your progression in that skill just as much as it could represent your training in a new skill. It's all in how you roleplay it.

My character uses his blaster rifle with all his attacks and when I get enough xp to rank it up it doesn't have to represent new training just my personal progression over time at getting better at it.

[Sturn 2,951]

Yep. I mean, why if I'm a policeman I will have problems about learning to sing something or cooking? If I work about about 6-8 hours a day and I spend 8 more sleeping, why I have to spend more XP in something I practice between 6-8 hours a day just because it isn't "my class"?

 

 

If you are the Police class, you are going to easily get training from experts in Pilot (drive), Ranged (light), etc. If you are of the Entertainer class, you are going to have easy access and contacts to teach you Singing. Also, in both cases, you've probably already picked up little bit on related skills even if you don't have a skill level in it yet. An Entertainer who was specialized as a dancer hs probably been around lots of singing and so has some latent training already. The Police officer would not have that same latent experience. So, the Police officer needs more XPs to learn Singing then the Entertainer.

[kelann08 42]

 

Yep. I mean, why if I'm a policeman I will have problems about learning to sing something or cooking? If I work about about 6-8 hours a day and I spend 8 more sleeping, why I have to spend more XP in something I practice between 6-8 hours a day just because it isn't "my class"?

 

 

If you are the Police class, you are going to easily get training from experts in Pilot (drive), Ranged (light), etc. If you are of the Entertainer class, you are going to have easy access and contacts to teach you Singing. Also, in both cases, you've probably already picked up little bit on related skills even if you don't have a skill level in it yet. An Entertainer who was specialized as a dancer hs probably been around lots of singing and so has some latent training already. The Police officer would not have that same latent experience. So, the Police officer needs more XPs to learn Singing then the Entertainer.

 

 

That's how I was viewing it.  Your career is who you are around and what you spend your time doing.  As a Smuggler, I'm used to sneaking around (Thief), flying my ship (pilot) and being charming (Scoundrel).  Even though I may specialize in flying, I often find myself in situations that require sneaking or being charming.  What I don't experience very often is the need to slice computers or negotiate with someone.  If I want to experience these things I have to out of my way to get the exposure.  This is represented by the additional XP used.  Its your character branching out of his/her comfort zone to have new experiences.

[whafrog 10,384]

Normally I'd agree with the OP about class systems, but for EotE I find it's an almost irrelevant speed bump, and instead of a hindrance it actually helps with defining the character's backstory.  Still, for the class system, if you really don't like it, then just let them pick a career, and give everybody access to the first three talent trees they want at "career" costs, and make all the rest non-career.

 

Then again, you could just give everyone access to any talent tree and any 8 career skills they want at character creation, and then give access to every talent tree at career costs...it's your game, and your player's characters will be probably over-powered and min-maxed compared to those in someone else's game, but so what?

 

As for Characteristics driving skills, you could house rule that any use of an untrained skill gets a setback die, or increased difficulty (3 purple instead of 2 for Brawl); or if situation is dangerous, any use of an untrained skill gets an automatic difficulty upgrade (purple to red).  Personally I've used the latter as a reason to use a destiny point, eg:  someone untrained in Medicine is trying to heal someone else...if you mess that up there could be consequences, so I flip a DP and watch them squirm

 

Edit:  and in all honesty I realized I've often (unconsciously) weighed the character's training when setting a difficulty...if I'm wavering between "average" and "hard", I'll probably pick "hard" if they're untrained.

Edited August 21, 2013 by whafrog

[kmanweiss 1,502]

brawn 1 - no skill - vibroax: This player would barely be able to swing the vibroax.  He won't hit much as the weapon is so unweildy, and if he does hit, it won't be very hard.

 

brawn 5 - no skill - vibroax: This player is going to be able to handle the weapon well.  He can swing it with easy, and change it's trajectory mid swing as he has the strength to manuever it's mass despite it's momentum.  He'll also be able to swing it faster making it strike harder and do more damage.

 

brawn 1 - 5 skill - vibroax: While still challenging to swing the weapon with ease, the player has been trained to use the weapon well.  He knows how to fight with it, the stance to use while swinging it, the weak points in armor that this weapon can take advantage of, etc.  He'll do far more damage and is far more accurate, but someone with the natural ability to swing the weapon will be more effective.

 

brawn 5 - 5 skill - vibroax: Run, just run away.  This player has the training to use the weapon effectively in combat and the ability to swing it around like you or I weilding a wiffle bat.

 

agility 1 - no skill - blaster rifle: Lacking the hand-eye cooridination and the steadiness required to shoot accurately, this player is likely to miss the broad side of a nerf barn.  This player can't even line up the sites on the weapon while aiming due to the way his hands shake.

 

Agility 5 - no skill - blaster rifle: This player has great natural skill.  They handle the rifle with ease.  They can make small adjustments to their aim with the slightest flick of their wrist.  While not amazing accurate, and unlikely to hit a bullseye, this character would at least hit most of the targets in a shooting gallery.

 

Agility 1 - 5 skill - blaster rifle: While somewhat unsteady with a weapon yet, they know the ins and outs of ranged combat.  Able to identify targets, and even target unarmored parts of their foes with ease.  While they may still miss a moving target, if they do hit, they tend to hit right on the bullseye.

 

Agility 5 - 5 skill - blaster rifle: This player can shoot a single wing of a fly at 100 paces...with a light repeating blaster.  The ability to hold the weapon steady, the natural ability to squeeze the trigger instead of pulling it, the ease at which they move the weapon from target to target is just uncanny.  It's almost as if the rest of the world slows down around them when they have a blaster in their hands.

 

Natural ability plays a huge factor in most things.

[Josep Maria 685]

Hi again!

 

I have one doubt for everyone that told me one of my players. "Do you believe that is fair that someone with normal Brawn of 2  that has trained an entire life with swords adquiring 5 to Melee, has the same posibilities and ratio or above to hit someone than someone with NO idea about combat, 0 skill, but with only incredible Brawn 5?"

 

I just want to understand whats the meaning of having a high or a low Brawn. Just means "I'm big and huge and can crush things?". If this is the meaning then it have no sense that it adds precision, or at least, say that high Brawn or Agility means that I'm Rambo cause of that XD

 

Of course, more Brawn, Agility or other Characteristics MUST mean important advantatges, but, skill must have priority.

 

I don't have a possible alternative without breaking the main, but I liked the upgrade dices, add setbacks and add dices idea, its a nice one (thanks whafrog!). What do you think about it?

[Keeop 158]

I just want to understand whats the meaning of having a high or a low Brawn. Just means "I'm big and huge and can crush things?". If this is the meaning then it have no sense that it adds precision, or at least, say that high Brawn or Agility means that I'm Rambo cause of that XD

 

Of course, more Brawn, Agility or other Characteristics MUST mean important advantatges, but, skill must have priority.

 

 

I either have a small idea what you're getting at...or I'm clueless...so let's take a shot...  3 Agility 2 Ranged (Light) will have the same starting dice pool as a 2 Agility 3 Ranged (Light). The advantage to upgrading the characteristic during character creation is that a high Agility will have the opportunity to effect multiple skills, not just the ranged light.

[Greybird 2]

Yep. I mean, why if I'm a policeman I will have problems about learning to sing something or cooking? If I work about about 6-8 hours a day and I spend 8 more sleeping, why I have to spend more XP in something I practice between 6-8 hours a day just because it isn't "my class"?

 

 

Like others have said (and I'm paraphrasing), think about it backwards.  Think about it not as an extra cost for non-class skills, but as a discount for class skills.  A policeman is going to spend 8 hours a day talking shop with other cops.  He's going to spend 8 hours a day practicing police work, and he'll spend time thinking about it when he's not at home.  He has access to resources - facilities, trainers, materials - that make improving his skills easier.  

 

He can certainly learn to cook, dance, fix cars, fly a plane, whatever, but he's got to do it on his own.  It'll take more time, effort and resources.

[whafrog 10,384]

I used to play a game called Chivalry and Sorcery, and your combat effectiveness was a complex calculation that included Strength, Dex, Int, Wisdom, Charisma, Ferocity, a multiplier based on your background (peasants vs knights, etc), and a multiplier based on your character class (e.g.:  0.5 for scholars/mages, 1.2 for knights).  Much more "realistic" but the game was almost unplayable.

 

I've given up worrying about it, not to mention it's pretty clear that allowing Agility to be used for Melee or Brawl will make it the "go to" Characteristic that everyone will want because it would cover shooting, fighting, piloting, and sneaking, and what more could a Star Wars player want?

 

Also, there isn't enough range to finesse it that much.  Brawn 2 is average, Brawn 3 is every fit action hero movie star.  Brawn 4 might be Ah-nold the Terminator, if he was actually as tall as they make him look.  And Brawn 5 is monstrous.  Think Andre the Giant in the Princess Bride.  I don't care how much kung fu you have, you better be careful even if he is slow and hungover to boot.  Agility matters, but even Agility 1 can do things; the game isn't wasting time modelling incapacity.

 

So instead maybe just deal with it narratively.  If somebody gets Advantages and wants to pass a bonus on to their buddy:  if they want to play to their native Agility, then maybe their natural finesse allows them to trip their opponent so their buddy has an easier time of it; or maybe they have high Presence, so they project a "haha, my buddy is behind you" look, and their opponent is momentarily fooled.  Leave this to the player, and the moment will be remembered as how their favoured Characteristic got used, not that they didn't have enough Brawn to fight a Wookiee.

[kelann08 42]

I just want to understand whats the meaning of having a high or a low Brawn. Just means "I'm big and huge and can crush things?". If this is the meaning then it have no sense that it adds precision, or at least, say that high Brawn or Agility means that I'm Rambo cause of that XD

 

Brawn 5, Melee 0 - Huge arms, holds a vibroaxe, doesn't know which end to stick them with but does a great job of just beating them over the head with it.  Probably uses it more like a cudgel than an axe.  Every once in a while he'll get it aimed the right way (likely by accident) and land a crit.  As his skill goes up, he'll learn to aim it the right way and seek out weak spots on his opponent thereby increasing the damage he deals.

 

Brawn 1, Melee 5 - Tiny, spindly arms, knows how to wield a vibroaxe like a surgeon uses a scalpel.  He can pick it up but he can't swing it with much force at all.  What he can do is find gaps in armor, turn the blade to slip past his opponent's guard.  He can put the business end of that weapon anywhere he wants any time he wants but his lack of force means he does only decent damage.  As his brawn goes up, he'll be able to land with more force thereby increasing the damage he deals.

[BaronVonStevie 18]

since the game isn't trying to be Gurps, I feel like the way Edge of the Emprie is set up works. Classes might not be free form enough, but the game isn't trying to be free form. It's trying to be Star Wars.

 

also the abilities represent attributes that, again, work in Star Wars. The big oafish guy strolls into the fight and can throw his weight around because... well... he's a big oaf. That kind of stuff works in action movies.

 

My alternatives are pending. I haven't gotten into the game enough. At first glance, I would love to see a way to balance out agile characters with armored characters. It seems like armor is too good and not being armored is way too dangerous (for Star Wars). My smuggler with naught but a light jacket wouldn't last long in a serious fire fight, it seems... even if he were really really skilled.

[gwek 123]

Brawn 5 = me when I play-fight my 4-year-old daughter.

 

Seriously, though, if I recall (and I may be misremembering), Brawn isn't JUST muscle -- Brawn is also about understanding how to USE that muscle... not necessarily in a skilled way,  but in a "native instinct" way.

[Josep Maria 685]

Brawn 5 = me when I play-fight my 4-year-old daughter.

 

Seriously, though, if I recall (and I may be misremembering), Brawn isn't JUST muscle -- Brawn is also about understanding how to USE that muscle... not necessarily in a skilled way,  but in a "native instinct" way.

Interesting, so, do you consider that someone with Brawn 5 (a mix between old Strenght and Constitution) doesn't need to be some with almost iron skin and awesome strenght, just someone who knows how to use it?

 

In a description probably a guy with Brawn 5 will be so much different than another one with 2. Probably one of them (5) its about 1,90 and 90 Kg (180 lb) and the other one (2) will be something like 1,75 and 70 Kg (140 lb).

 

Bruce Lee (not so tall and not so heavy) will have probably Brawn 3 or 4 and Brawl/Melee 5.

Stallone (Rambo) probably will have Brawn 4 or 5 (even more) and Melee 3 or 4.

 

This is how I believe that stats should represent chars, but your point of view is also interesting. Bruce Lee can probably have Brawn 5 or 6 because he know how to use his muscles.

 

Next one! (better double post sorry)

Edited August 22, 2013 by Josep Maria

[Josep Maria 685]

Lets say that I want tou build my character and my DJ loves me XD Gives me all the XP I want to build the strongest fighter (or one of the most).

 

I create some kind of pseudo-Bobba Fett.

 

I start with Brawn 3 or 4, Agility 4 or 5 and probably with skill Ranged 4 or 5 too. A great superior quality armor (Soak 3) and some Talents that improve Soak by one or even two points and my Defense in 1. Also I have Dodge 2 talent. Also a few more cool things.

 

Not the best but probably one of the best amog the galaxy so, this super-hunter kills Minions easily but... a group of 4 Stormtroopers (3 Proficency) will probably hit me a lot of times because there is a important lack of defensive options.

 

Even if I use a grade 2 Cover, they have still a lot of possibilities to hit and damage me, again, even using Dodge upgrades (I'm spending 2 Strain with 4 Minions).

 

If this is the build of one of the best characters, I can easilty hit even taking cover (I tested it launching about 50 or 60 dice pools), so, there is a lack of defense options? (Yep I counted de 2 dificulty from range too).

 

Someone in the forum told me to add the "Dodge" and the "Parry" Skills to the game cause he also believed that defense was too low.

 

I'm not looking for inmortal heroes but, "almost-Jango" can be "easily" defated by a 4 minon stormtrooper Agility 3 group?

 

Suggestions and points of view are welcome

Edited August 22, 2013 by Josep Maria

[Chortles 274]

The thing about the minion rules is that from RAW there's no restriction on how and when the GM can sort them into groups -- so the four stormtroopers? They could be attacking your almost-Jango/pseudo-Boba with Ranged (Heavy) 3... or they could split up into pairs and take two separate attacks against him but at Ranged (Heavy) 1 each... or they could be acting individually and each make separate attacks (four in all) but with no ranks in Ranged (Heavy), because they don't get any skill ranks unless acting in groups...

 

Now if you want really disposable mooks, it's Imperial Naval Troopers that your "almost-Jango/pseudo-Boba" should be taking on...

[EldritchFire 499]

Boba Fett is more than just a collection of characteristics! He's got talents up the going yang! He's modded his gear like crazy, and has a few ranks in barrage and/or point blank shot. He's probably got that talent that adds Cunning to the damage, and he probably shoots first.

After his first shot, one or two Stormies are going to be down, so the two left aren't going to be able to take him down.vHi next volley will destroy the rest of the group.

-EF

[Chortles 274]

The above all applies too -- the deck is really stacked against those stormtroopers unless you're playing with standard XP and character creation rules (then it's stacked against starting characters), and if you're going to get "all the XP I want to build the strongest fighter"... then it's time for your GM to start upping the stormies' stats or at least just who your pseudo-Fett is taking on.

[Dogwood2 99]

In order to feel like Star Wars, I think characters need to have a certain level of competence in a wide range of things. I mean, when was the last time you saw a character in a Star Wars movie say "I can't drive that speeder/shoot that weapon/unlock that door, I don't have the training"?

IMO, this was one of the reasons WEG's d6 system worked better than d20/Saga for Star Wars, and it's one of the things I like about FFG's system. Star Wars characters should be able to do something well based simply on natural ability, with little or no training, just because that's how Star Wars goes. If it were emulating a different genre, making characteristics less important would make more sense.

[Chortles 274]

Err, Saga's whole "half character level as a bonus to untrained skills" was specifically stated to be due to characters' versatility in the movies at stuff that they weren't overtly trained in (trained skill = a +5 bonus plus access to certain uses of the skill), there was even an article on the WOTC site specifically for this change compared to Revised.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Chortles

[Rookhelm 117]

I'm thinking of adding a "hunker down" maneuver when using cover.  The rules already support "superior" cover, which gives two setback dice.

 

But, I'd like for the players, if they want to, to really get behind cover and keep their heads down.  Costs an extra maneuver to do this and they get two setback dice on any attacks made against them.  however, they suffer either (and I haven't tested this to really decide) an upgraded difficulty while firing (which opens up possibility for despair), or suffer 1 or 2 setback dice when firing to represent "blind fire".

 

So for characters who don't have a lot of combat skill or hitpoints, they can hunker down, cover their heads with their hands and curl up into a ball until the shooting stops, but get better cover in doing so.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Rookhelm