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napoleonWilson

madam Flush and alternate Baltar....is this as broken as it looks

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Yes...but, like Big Blue playing Kasparaov, the bot gets the last laugh.  The tape would have been REMOVED from the vote before it takes effect which meant all those High value negative cards thrown in STAY....no brig for me.  Which is what you made it sound like.  he threw in negative which killed the vote until you threw in Tape.

  If tape no there...tape no effect.  :) 

 

napoleon

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How exactly would chief do that Napoleon? you seem to be confusing chief's OPG with Cally's quick fix. Chief has no core mechanic to remove cards from a check... you read his card recently (Google images it)?

then do I get to call you a silly cylon again ;p

Edited by JasX

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Ahhh...I guess I was thinking of Cally's. 

yeah for some reason I thought Tyrol removed the cards.  Haven't played him in a bit I guess.

Touche

 

I still say that except for those rare instances the Tape stinks and damages the purity of awesomeness in the yellow. 

 

Napoleon

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Ahhh...I guess I was thinking of Cally's. 

yeah for some reason I thought Tyrol removed the cards.  Haven't played him in a bit I guess.

Touche

 

I still say that except for those rare instances the Tape stinks and damages the purity of awesomeness in the yellow. 

 

Napoleon

 

Technically Tyrol does remove cards, but only after the season two finale and not the tyrol you're thinking of :P.

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Bringing is what the president is for or the GREATEST card in the game the yellow auto vote pass. 

 

So you rely on drawing one specific card from the Quorum deck (I'll give you that there are 2 copies of it) when you need to brig someone and then hope that the Pres isn't a Cylon who Brigs a Human player instead? What do you do with all the useless cards like Probation or Appoint VP (really, how often does a vote happen? With Daybreak never) that you draw while trying to get the Arrest Order?

And honestly, I hate that yellow card and wish it had never been printed. It's just a broken card, whoever is lucky enough to draw into it generally holds it until after getting their Sleeper card then uses it to screw over the other team by Brigging or Executing someone. Or a Cylon player gets lucky enough to draw it and escapes from the Brig. It's a blatantly unfair card.

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Well...we go through that quorum deck MUCH faster than you do..we actually xo the pres non-stop, (unless of course there is Madam one lump in play). And you are gonna tell me that you are not relying on all the players being human that vote to brig somebody?  Gonna blow a ton of cards on a pointless skill check when the pres can do it for free.  How hard does the brigging target fight? is there another cylon that will help him out,...and of course the fickle destiny cards.  We don't find those other cards useless either.  There are lots of those  VP type cards which gives two cards,.  the probation keeps whoever has it honest, release mugshots, civy defense, repair 2 vips and loc., eulogy, morale and food boosts. LOTS of VASTLY important cards., .  With our way you are only hoping that the pres is not a cylon. Your way with a vote to brig you have to worry about Everybody and you are wasting cards.  And if the pres does quasi reveal at least you know what you are dealing with. 

The yellow card is amazing and frankly I am all for it.  Up until now the president had that kind of singular power, now there is a chance for anybody to have that.  True the pres has a good chance at getting it but, I tell you until I get it I am BURNGING through yellow to get it. I don't have a problem with it.  After all this game is BASED on mismatched powers.  A game designer who makes pilot Apollo and then makes Anders and claims that they are trying for  some kind of equanimity in the game is out of his mind or a boldfaced liar.  So there are lot's of

"unfair" things in the game.  How about the new little honey that says if someone is "executed" they loose their miracle token even if they haven't used it yet.  Talk about unfair.

with that perspective the yellow card is nowhere near a big deal.

Despite your very different play styles, I would LOVE to play a game with you or at least watch a session.  It would be interesting.

Napoleon.

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LOL...I also think it is hilarious that I started this thread to discuss what I consider a REALLY blatantly unfair ability that the humans seem to have in Madam Cain Flushing more than half the total distance in a little more than one full round and it has lead to discussions on why purples stinks, which character are good or bad, and now the quorum decks usefulness. 

Thank heavens its the weekend...get to try it again.

 

napoleon

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Hey, it wouldn't be an FFG forum if we didn't go off on tangents, on the AGoT threads we'll go for 6+ pages sometimes. And I do love the fact that there is no one "right way" to achieve success for Humans! And that there is one wrong way, choosing to use Anders.

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Ohh god...help that fool...

 

I am thinking about house ruling him.  he is SO unbelievably pathetic and it would have been so easy to make him playable.

I don't understand why they make god characters like Apollo and then him...it's so dumb.  We have to have bottom feeder games just to see some different characters otherwise it is ALWAYS the same lineup.  Maybe I should start another thread......

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Ohhh...ok

 

I should have known that.  I despise the show but, I did make it through season 3 I think.  The episodes kinda

bleed together so I am not sure where I finally had enough. 

 

Sorry didn't get joke:)

 

napoleon

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About the topic in the original post: If I were Cain or New Baltar, I would never help humans that well before sleeper fase and screw myself if I become cylon. You have to stay a tiny bit selfish before sleeper fase.

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Yeah...but the occasion sure does come around very infrequently. 

But, I think you kinda missed what Von was saying.  We were debating the value of Yellow vs. Purple.  I had used trust instincts card as an example of why purple stinks but, he countered with bringing up the Red Tape.  Which I have to say is a VERY valid point.  Both cards are about equally useful, very situational and I am sure everybody has some great, "this one time I did..." story, but for the most part, most of the time and when you are looking at 2 or 3 in your hand neither card is going to be winning any awards.

 

napoleon

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Ah...ok to quit...this is a fundamental play style difference.

 

My game group feels that if you are human ...you are HUMAN.  "pulling the reins" with your play and gaming the system in order to see if you get the cylon card is tantamount to cheating.  I guess that you can play that way, but if we found somebody was playing as a cylon before they got a cylon card we would just lock em up and forget em...or more probably just not invite that person back to play.  If you are human you play to the best of your abilities to help the humans until something changes.  Otherwise just cook the loyalty deck and deal yourself a cylon card if you want it that bad.

 

I feel playing with tactics like that are seriously against the spirit of the game.  I don't think we would be very good in the same group. 

 

Sorry,..

napoleon

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I did not say play like a cylon while you're human. 

Just to play for yourself until you know. You have more chance to stay a human than to become a cylon, so you should definitely help the humans, but you shouldn't help them too much if you can wait to give that same help until after the sleeper phase. 

 

What I mean by this:

- Keep your once per game until you know what team to use it for. (especially for characters like boomer, starbucks, helo, anders, chief, Dee, Cain, ... )

- Try to have others contribute to the skill checks right before the sleeper phase, instead of contributing all your cards yourself.

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But then why bother holding  back at all. 

 

Why not sabotage votes to make sure the humans are not doing too well?  Refuse to give out xo's cause the humans MIGHT BE your enemy? Leave 1's on top of the destination deck so it takes the humans a bit longer to get to their goal? Don't use any quorum cards to get back morale or food.   I mean...just in CASE....

Sorry, but sabotage is sabotage.  If you CAN do something and you don't I think  you are throwing the game. 

I know it sucks to get the cylon card at the half and have the humans be REALLY close to home but, dems da breaks man.  You have to take the hand that you have been dealt and not play to what you wish.  I have played plenty of games where the cylons don't get dealt out till the half and they still win. It's harder but, the game is designed to be REALLY hard for the humans and they need to have everyone on board for as long as they can.  The cylons get enough of an advantage from the game itself.

  I don't like the  argument that you are, "playing for yourself"  and I think it is flawed.  The game is a team game and you should be playing for your team that you are on. 

It is no different than a jockey holding his horse back, a boxer taking a dive in the fifth, or the Korean Olympic Ping-Pong team intentionally throwing their games so they could get more favorable standings in the playoffs.  It's legal and the rules don't forbid it,...but wow is it bad sportsmanship. 

 

Napoleon

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You are overreacting. 

 

Take this example: 

Distance = 3, jump prep has advanced 2 spaces this cycle. Space is calm, it's one of those moments in the game where you don't have to put out fires but can build up resources for future challenges. The admiral has 1 nuke left. 

 

It's my turn, and I receive the card "build nuke". 

 

Let's assume that the best human play would be to build the nuke. I would not do it. I would do something else good for the humans, or would draw cards in the press room, or whatever. 

 

By my next turn, I would know my second loyalty card and would still hold the "build nuke", so I could play it then. I didn't harm the humans by my play. I didn't sabotage anything. 

I just made sure that if I turn cylon, I would still hold a 6 value blue card to sabotage an important skill check, and I didn't give the humans an extra nuke token. If I stay human, I will still build the nuke later and no real harm would be done. 

What is unsportsmanlike about that play?

 

I don't cheat, I don't go in against the spirit of BSG. (What Baltar and Zarek did in the show ... even apollo choosing for politics was a selfish choice when the fleet needed the best pilots in the cockpits.)

I just try to win however the game turns out, and no, I will not help the cylons in the hope of becoming one. I just don't invest all my trump cards before the sleeper phase if they can just as well be kept until after the sleeper phase without a real impact on the human chances to win. 

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You are equivocating with an example that is so insignificant that it is pretty much a straw argument.  The response you made was to a clearly human benefit.  Jumping 2-3 times with Cain and Baltar with VERY little danger to the humans.  If you were either Cain or Balter and human, by not using that amazing ability(especially if the other players are saying to do it) I say you are throwing the game. An extra nuke isn't that big a deal, usually best thrown into the off vote.  An argument for keeping it back could be reasonably made for being a human as well as a cylon.  There is no comparison between the two plays 

 

 

I didn't say you are cheating.  Tantamount means VIRTUALLY the same as, however, I still say it is terribly bad sportsmanship and certainly against the spirit of the game to play in the hopes of the odd chance you are a cylon.    I also think using actions of characters in the show is not an argument either.  Chief, Anders, Torri and whoever else the show producers hit on the dart-board to see who would be a cylon are not automatically cylons because they were on the show. 

 

We are DEFINATLY not going to see eye to eye on this one but, I think people know where we stand.

 

Napoleon.

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Man, it's pretty weird that the rulebook's strategy tips (p. 29) encourage players to violate the spirit of the game

Thank you for this reminder:

From the rulebook (p29)

 

Preparing for the Sleeper Agent Phase

It is important for human players to keep in mind that even

if they do not start as a Cylon, that may change during the Sleeper Agent phase. At the start of the game, it may be a good strategy for the humans to avoid doing too well, because one of them may become a Cylon player during the Sleeper Agent phase. Performing exceptionally well as a human

may make winning the game more difficult for a player who switches over to the Cylon side. 

 

So the rulebook tells me to play like that. It can't be against the spirit of the game then, can it?

 

And you keep saying I hope to become a cylon. I never hope to become one. I prefer the games where I am human all game. 

And I don't see how trying to win the game is bad sportsmanship. 

 

Doing 3 blind jumps in a few game turns using newBaltar and Cain, is doing way too good for the humans. I prefer to bring the game to the sleeper phase in a way that I can still win the game, however my second loyalty card turns out. I don't play in the hopes of becoming a cylon, I play in the hopes of winning, whatever my loyalty is. 

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I guess...

 

I guess this would be ok too," Aww...I am going to loose....meh...I will just throw the game so we can go play another one." That's not the spirit of the game either but, if your fellow players said that I am willing to bet Sub that you are not the type of player that would be happy about that.

I think what that tip meant was don't worry about events of the show or if you are doing something that a character would or would not do in the show.  I don't think it meant to intentionally throw the game. 

 

napoleon

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A game is never lost until it's really over, so indeed I wouldn't like someone throwing the game. 

 

But there is a difference between throwing a game and keeping your options open because you don't know yet what team you will end up on. 

 

Anyway, we don't need to agree. 

What's important is that my play group doesn't mind me playing like that, because they all do it, and we have fun with those games and humans still have like 40-45% victory chance. And you don't have people in your play group that play like I do, and I suppose your games are fun too. 

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