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Lomiat

Welcome to BattleLore Second Edition!

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I was a fan of Battlelore until the setup time was greater than the playtime...same with Battles of Westeros...

 

I SINCERELY hope it'll not be the same with BL 2nd edition...I love the Terrinoth universe (own anything Terrinoth related except Runebound) and will likely buy the game but I have a bad feeling about this...

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I got to sit and play it. The dice are new with crown (usually a triggered ability on the creature card), weak attack, strong attack, lore, ranged hit, and flag. The game resembles the base game with call to arms built in. Lore cards seem to be integrated better at the start too. At the end of your turn you can choose to draw two lore cards, lore card and gain a lore, or gain two lore.

Setup is accomplished by using a setup card for each side. The setup cards are long and display the terrain on your side of the map as well as where you can put units. I had card a1 for the uthuk, which was called blood in the water. I could earn vps by holding points, and every unit i killed in the water earned me vps. Also my cav units (some demon dogs of some sort) could move freely in the water. You can choose your setup card, or randomize them.

Im pretty happy with what i saw.

I know this question will yield a very biased answer, but if you've played Runewars and/or Rune Age, how does this game feel compared to those? I've got my own impressions, but without having played it, I'm not putting much stock in my current feelings. I'd love to hear more impressions/thoughts/critiques from you or anyone else who got a chance to play it.

Runewars and Rune Age only share setting with 2nd edition. Runewars is a grand strategic game, rather than a tactical game. Rune age is a deck builder... Hrmm... I wonder if battlelore 2nd could be used to resolve runewars battles?

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I was a fan of Battlelore until the setup time was greater than the playtime...same with Battles of Westeros...

 

My only previous exposure to this has been through Battles of Westeros. Looking at the snatches of video on this game, it does look a lot like BoW, so I am pretty excited by it, though the setup time is always fiddly. At least this game looks like you don't have to glue the figures into their bases (and, usually, fingers to the two as well...) 

 

I do hope, though, that they provide expansions for different races, rather than subfactions of the same race, as was the case for a long time with BoW. I don't think I could convince my usual gaming mate to play it without the Latari Elves...

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I'd just like to repeat a comment I made at BGG. It's about avoiding as many of the drawbacks of the first edition as possible. It would be sad to see a great game slain twice by its internal flaws -

 

   Although the new version looks better than the old, it's sort of frustrating that it continues one stupid game feature. It is what, in my opinion, killed the game for Days of Wonder....
   There is no reason to represent extra strength or health of a unit with extra miniatures. 70% of of the molded plastic in Battlelore is nothing but a of waste money, resources and game time. The banner piece was the unit, the others were just traits. I replaced them with old wooden risk pieces; any tokens could be used. How stupid is it for one miniature to function exactly like four? How silly do you feel hunting for the four matching archers for a single archer unit?
   At least Fantasy Flight reduced the number of unnecessary extra miniatures and reduced the fighting value of damaged units. They should take the next logical step - use one miniature per unit.

 

Maybe the production is already set, but this could be a better game.

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I'd just like to repeat a comment I made at BGG. It's about avoiding as many of the drawbacks of the first edition as possible. It would be sad to see a great game slain twice by its internal flaws -

 

   Although the new version looks better than the old, it's sort of frustrating that it continues one stupid game feature. It is what, in my opinion, killed the game for Days of Wonder....

   There is no reason to represent extra strength or health of a unit with extra miniatures. 70% of of the molded plastic in Battlelore is nothing but a of waste money, resources and game time. The banner piece was the unit, the others were just traits. I replaced them with old wooden risk pieces; any tokens could be used. How stupid is it for one miniature to function exactly like four? How silly do you feel hunting for the four matching archers for a single archer unit?

   At least Fantasy Flight reduced the number of unnecessary extra miniatures and reduced the fighting value of damaged units. They should take the next logical step - use one miniature per unit.

 

Maybe the production is already set, but this could be a better game.

 

 

If I understand you correctly (and I may not, I didn't play first edition) you're saying that a unit with five footmen models (for example) functions identically to a unit with one footman model?  What do the additional models do?  Do you remove models as the unit takes damage thereby indicating the overall health of the unit?  Does removing models make the unit weaker?  The way you describe it sounds like any other wargame - a unit of footmen has five members and therefore five models and, to you, this is bad.  Am I understanding your POV correctly?  I want to make sure before I voice an opinion.

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I'd just like to repeat a comment I made at BGG. It's about avoiding as many of the drawbacks of the first edition as possible. It would be sad to see a great game slain twice by its internal flaws -

 

   Although the new version looks better than the old, it's sort of frustrating that it continues one stupid game feature. It is what, in my opinion, killed the game for Days of Wonder....

   There is no reason to represent extra strength or health of a unit with extra miniatures. 70% of of the molded plastic in Battlelore is nothing but a of waste money, resources and game time. The banner piece was the unit, the others were just traits. I replaced them with old wooden risk pieces; any tokens could be used. How stupid is it for one miniature to function exactly like four? How silly do you feel hunting for the four matching archers for a single archer unit?

   At least Fantasy Flight reduced the number of unnecessary extra miniatures and reduced the fighting value of damaged units. They should take the next logical step - use one miniature per unit.

 

Maybe the production is already set, but this could be a better game.

X miniatures per unit :

+ see a greater army

- lost of time before and after game

- lost money when buy unit pack

+ healt value of all unit is easier to view at a glance with X miniatures than another count system

 

 

1 miniature per unit :

+ gain of money (in theory)

- an other system is necessary to count healt of unit.

= don't gain of time if we replace X minature by X other elements

+ gain of time if use of counter for each unit

- or + gain or lost of money if healt counter is or isn't expensive

 

 

Gain or lost money depend of public price of the unit pack/game extension/... not manufacturing cost.

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You forgot about the cool factor. In fact, the relatively fewer figures is the main drawback of BL2 for me.

Edited by Sevej

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I'd just like to repeat a comment I made at BGG. It's about avoiding as many of the drawbacks of the first edition as possible. It would be sad to see a great game slain twice by its internal flaws -

 

   Although the new version looks better than the old, it's sort of frustrating that it continues one stupid game feature. It is what, in my opinion, killed the game for Days of Wonder....

   There is no reason to represent extra strength or health of a unit with extra miniatures. 70% of of the molded plastic in Battlelore is nothing but a of waste money, resources and game time. The banner piece was the unit, the others were just traits. I replaced them with old wooden risk pieces; any tokens could be used. How stupid is it for one miniature to function exactly like four? How silly do you feel hunting for the four matching archers for a single archer unit?

   At least Fantasy Flight reduced the number of unnecessary extra miniatures and reduced the fighting value of damaged units. They should take the next logical step - use one miniature per unit.

 

Maybe the production is already set, but this could be a better game.

X miniatures per unit :

+ see a greater army

- lost of time before and after game

- lost money when buy unit pack

+ healt value of all unit is easier to view at a glance with X miniatures than another count system

 

 

1 miniature per unit :

+ gain of money (in theory)

- an other system is necessary to count healt of unit.

= don't gain of time if we replace X minature by X other elements

+ gain of time if use of counter for each unit

- or + gain or lost of money if healt counter is or isn't expensive

 

 

Gain or lost money depend of public price of the unit pack/game extension/... not manufacturing cost.

 

 

There was a project mentioned on the BGG forums a while back where someone was converting BL1E from using figurines to using blocks (a la so many other block wargames). Basically, you rotate the block to indicate its strength/hit points. It's perhaps not as aesthetically pleasing, but makes set up and clean up a bit easier.

 

The other advantage of blocks is that you could also simulate fog of war (i.e,, you wouldn't know what a specific unit is until you attack it or it attacks you).

 

Personally, l'm not sure if I prefer blocks over lots of cool plastic minis (I'm a sucker for the toys)--but they are another option, if you're into hand-crafting a bit.

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If I understand you correctly (and I may not, I didn't play first edition) you're saying that a unit with five footmen models (for example) functions identically to a unit with one footman model?  What do the additional models do?  Do you remove models as the unit takes damage thereby indicating the overall health of the unit?  Does removing models make the unit weaker?  The way you describe it sounds like any other wargame - a unit of footmen has five members and therefore five models and, to you, this is bad.  Am I understanding your POV correctly?  I want to make sure before I voice an opinion.

 

 

First edition units were composed of 4 plastic minis total with one of them with the flag.  Each time you suffered a wound you removed 1 miniature from the unit...but the unit kept all it's other stats.  So a 1 mini unit attack with the same strengh as a full unit.

 

That felt a bit weird at first but hey, the game was fun for my group.

 

Now I see they changed some things like 1 mini units that seem more powerful (maybe with more HP, skills and other unique traits) and it's looking promising.  Less minis = cheaper and less setup/put away time and that a huge plus for me.

 

My greatest hope is to see more uniqueness in the units.

 

Only time will tell but it looks cool so far.

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Backside of the board half of a double-sized map as it was in 1st ed ?

 

how Long, how Long until we get undead and elves and how many years if at all until we get dwarves and orcs including these in runewars ? i fear im dead before, waiting for Talisman 4rth Corner.

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you guys never organized your minis!? simple plastic bags or containers would save you a world of troulbe in set up time; it takes liek and hour to oraganize it once and it cuts set up time in half easily.

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however, i just bought wesateros. not to play it, but to use the map for battlelore. not that im going to play battlelore, i like the models and do something on my own for them. i dont believe in any good game fropm ffg anymore. they do excellent graphic work and thats it.

westeros map does not have these ugly red lines across the field, the folding edges do right that. ist a bit bigger, exactly matching the number of hexes of the heroes of might and Magic 3 battlefield. doing some püaperwork for sieges, that will be fine.

again, i only hope the undead and elves will appear right after the basic game.

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you guys never organized your minis!? simple plastic bags or containers would save you a world of troulbe in set up time; it takes liek and hour to oraganize it once and it cuts set up time in half easily.

 

This is exactly what I did before I even started my first game. It seemed so obvious just after reading the rules, that I need to keep these minis separate. 

 

What I liked so much about Battlelore 1st Edition is its simplicity and yet very tactical, I just hope the same will be for 2nd Edition. The only thing I would have liked to have seen in the first edition was some different races being introduced. I am happy with all the rules of 1st and liked the ease of their use, nothing complicated and a very easy game to introduce to non gamers.

 

I'm looking forward to 2nd edition and hope that it makes battlore even better if that's at all possible.

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I'd just like to repeat a comment I made at BGG. It's about avoiding as many of the drawbacks of the first edition as possible. It would be sad to see a great game slain twice by its internal flaws -

 

   Although the new version looks better than the old, it's sort of frustrating that it continues one stupid game feature. It is what, in my opinion, killed the game for Days of Wonder....   There is no reason to represent extra strength or health of a unit with extra miniatures. 70% of of the molded plastic in Battlelore is nothing but a of waste money, resources and game time. The banner piece was the unit, the others were just traits. I replaced them with old wooden risk pieces; any tokens could be used. How stupid is it for one miniature to function exactly like four? How silly do you feel hunting for the four matching archers for a single archer unit?   At least Fantasy Flight reduced the number of unnecessary extra miniatures and reduced the fighting value of damaged units. They should take the next logical step - use one miniature per unit.

 

Maybe the production is already set, but this could be a better game.

Sadly based on the demo video, they do have multiples of the same unit on hexes. But also, based on the number in the unit does some unique items as well.

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I realy WANT this game in my Terrinoth colection...but I think that it is going to have a lot of expansions so it isnt going to be a cheap incorporation... :wacko:

 

I agree.  From what I recall seeing of BL 1.0, it's more like a tabletop wargame than a board game.  ie: You get some basic units in the starter box, and then individual "battalion units" are sold separately to increase your army's scope.  You can collect one army specifically or try to build them all (if you've got money to burn.)  Given FFG's penchant for expansions, I can only imagine what they would do with a game model like that. =P

 

 

As far as the OP's complaint goes, I can definitely see how that's a valid concern for the mechanic.  I suppose you could use unit bases like many proper tabletop war games do to at least ease movement of these multi-figure units around the board.  You'd still have to hunt around to assemble your units during set up, though.

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My main hope is they release expansions steadily but not to fast.  I'm hoping they won't go the same way as Descent 2nd edition...too many expansions too quickly.

 

And I also hope they release more factions first before expanding the existing ones.  I'm hoping for dwarves and undead and hope they'll release first!

 

My other wish is for the setup.  Don't want to turn out like BL1 where it took too long to setup for the actual playtime.

 

It's still a sure buy for me though and it'll be a huge test for my willpower...

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I

 

As far as the OP's complaint goes, I can definitely see how that's a valid concern for the mechanic.  I suppose you could use unit bases like many proper tabletop war games do to at least ease movement of these multi-figure units around the board.  You'd still have to hunt around to assemble your units during set up, though.

 

 

One could construct hexagons to place a group of figures on. Clear plastic, double thick card stock with felt, if that's what a player likes... or nice little wooden pieces with recesses for each figure and maybe a slot to see the terrain underneath, space permitting.

 

A note about set up time. If each side of the map is set up by a different player, set up shouldn't take very long at all. Just organize the terrain hexes. :D

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Look, I'm as excited about Battlelore for Christmas as the next guy, but what I really want for Christmas is RUNEBOUND 3RD EDITION!! SERIOUSLY..C'MON!... just.....c'mon, guys....please...

Battlelore looks great tho. Something just for 2players. Other games that I own like say, Descent or Talisman/Relic don't really shine in that 2player spot. I don't always feel like having a hootinanny square dance get together koolaid n'all when I wanna geek out. So yeah. Battlelore.. totally!

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