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SmokeGunner

Star Destroyer

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I try to cut the West End books a lot of slack.  Back then there was no know knowledge, and all they could do was make that stuff up.  Heck a lot of what they made up ended up as canon.

 

I actually once had a chance to talk with Timothy Zahn (many years ago), and he said that when he started writing Star Wars novels he was given a stack of West End books and told to use those for source material.

 

Much of there stuff does still make good source material.  I can look at ship stats, like a Star Destroyer, and get a basic idea of what they have, then translate it into Edge of the Empire terms.

Edited by Split Light

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The only group that made use of X-Wings that I know if is Corellian Security (Corsec). In the X-Wing books, Corran Horn, a former Corsec officer, mentions that his X-Wing had been part of a complement used by Corellian Security. When they got those ships, however, I'm not certain, because the X-Wing books are post RotJ. The time frame would have at least had Corsec possessing them before RotJ, though.

At that point, though, hadn't Corellia defected to the Rebellion as well? That'd explain why they had X-Wings.

 

No, Corellia was still aligned with the Empire as the background for the character involved an Imperial liaison working with CorSec.

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The Y-wing struck me as filling more of a fighter-bomber role. Heavier, better armoured and less maneuverable. It was primarily Y-wings that went into the Trench on Death Star.

As for Star Destroyer stats, I shudder to think of placing PCs in a situation that actually calls for mechanical stats for one. They seem to function more as scenery and plot devices. In a New Hope the Star Destroyer in the opening scene is pure plot device. Leia's ship needs to be disabled so she can give the plans to R2-D2 and get captured thus setting the whole plot in motion. The Star Destroyers above Tatooine when the Falcon blasts off are really set dressing, as are the ones in Empire Strike Back. The Star Destroyers in Return of the Jedi do not significantly interact with Player Characters.

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The West End books made a lot of stuff up, some of which was wrong or didn't fit with the setting - see Y-Wings and TIE Fighters being just as manoeuvrable as each other mechanically, etc.

 

You do realize that the setting - before WEG started publishing - consisted of seven novels and the Marvel Comics run, right? Of course they made a whole bunch of stuff up and pulled stuff out of the air - they had nothing to work with!

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The West End books made a lot of stuff up, some of which was wrong or didn't fit with the setting - see Y-Wings and TIE Fighters being just as manoeuvrable as each other mechanically, etc.

 

You do realize that the setting - before WEG started publishing - consisted of seven novels and the Marvel Comics run, right? Of course they made a whole bunch of stuff up and pulled stuff out of the air - they had nothing to work with!

 

Saga made crap up, too, with much less of an excuse. For example: apparently they thought that Star Destroyers have point defense laser turrets instead of just an obscene number of turbolasers and fighters. Star Destroyers aren't good at fighting fighters... but they just need to get lucky once.

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The West End books made a lot of stuff up, some of which was wrong or didn't fit with the setting - see Y-Wings and TIE Fighters being just as manoeuvrable as each other mechanically, etc.

 

You do realize that the setting - before WEG started publishing - consisted of seven novels and the Marvel Comics run, right? Of course they made a whole bunch of stuff up and pulled stuff out of the air - they had nothing to work with!

 

 

More to the point, a lot of what we now know as the EU was created by WEG in the first place! I don't think a lot of Star Wars fans really realize that.

 

Saga made crap up, too, with much less of an excuse. For example: apparently they thought that Star Destroyers have point defense laser turrets instead of just an obscene number of turbolasers and fighters. Star Destroyers aren't good at fighting fighters... but they just need to get lucky once.

 

I dunno, I think that Incredible Cross Sections gave precedent to Star Destroyers having point-defense gunnery, and that was years before Saga. Also, while turbolasers are the Star Destroyers' bread and butter, it doesn't make any logical sense that they wouldn't have defense systems against starfighters.

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Saga made crap up, too, with much less of an excuse. For example: apparently they thought that Star Destroyers have point defense laser turrets instead of just an obscene number of turbolasers and fighters. Star Destroyers aren't good at fighting fighters... but they just need to get lucky once.

 

I dunno, I think that Incredible Cross Sections gave precedent to Star Destroyers having point-defense gunnery, and that was years before Saga. Also, while turbolasers are the Star Destroyers' bread and butter, it doesn't make any logical sense that they wouldn't have defense systems against starfighters.

 

Every other source I've found for the armaments of Star Destroyers marks them as having Turbolasers (of varying power), Ion Cannons, tractor beams, and fighters. And it's specifically brought up in the EU that the Empire made the Lancer class ships to deal with the fact that Star Destroyers couldn't really deal with fighters, except through their own fighters. 

 

It makes a lot of sense, the Star Destroyer is designed to be able to bombard planets and fight other capital ships. Fighters aren't really a threat. It wasn't until after the first Death Star is destroyed that the Imperial Navy starts to get concerns about fighters.

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The West End books made a lot of stuff up, some of which was wrong or didn't fit with the setting - see Y-Wings and TIE Fighters being just as manoeuvrable as each other mechanically, etc.

 

You do realize that the setting - before WEG started publishing - consisted of seven novels and the Marvel Comics run, right? Of course they made a whole bunch of stuff up and pulled stuff out of the air - they had nothing to work with!

 

You're forgetting 3+ years of Daily comics, as well, and a pile of Starlog Magazine articles, and the backs of the figure and toy packs....

 

It wasn't entirely cogent...

 

Just looking at the list on Wikipedia...

3 Han Solo novels (1979, 1979, 1980)

3 Lando Novels (1983,1983,1983)

Novelizations and Audiobooks of all three movies 

Young Adult Novels of all three versions

two Ewok films (1984/1985)

Star Wars Droids animated series (85-86)

Star Wars: Ewoks animated series (86-86)

NPR Audio Dramas (3 movies adapted, plus a 4th "movie," Return from Ord Mandell, that was original in 1984)

Daily comics (1979-1984)

6 Video Games

Several Marvel monthly comic book series, from 1978-1986, plus marvel monthly strips in Pizzaz. Plus adaptations of all 3 movies.

 

All of this is pre 1987. Most of this was available to WEG.

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Having taken a good look at the large production model Star Destroyer constructed iirc for Empire Strikes Back at the Star Wars: Identities exhibit, I must say the guns in the main turrets on that sucker are HUGE!

To better define HUGE, the Star Destroyer in question is about seven feet long. The guns are about .5 to .7 mm in diameter, maybe a little thicker, vermicelli but not spaghetti, and twenty to thirty millimeters long, per barrel.

The photos I can find on the web really do not do the size and mass of these guns justice. I am not sure I want or need game stats on it.

AT-ST walkers, oh yes! Please. I could easily see those interacting with player characters, but remembering how small the Millennium Falcom, about as large a ship as I want my players to have, was compared to a Star Destroyer....

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The West End books made a lot of stuff up, some of which was wrong or didn't fit with the setting - see Y-Wings and TIE Fighters being just as manoeuvrable as each other mechanically, etc.

 

You do realize that the setting - before WEG started publishing - consisted of seven novels and the Marvel Comics run, right? Of course they made a whole bunch of stuff up and pulled stuff out of the air - they had nothing to work with!

 

You're forgetting 3+ years of Daily comics, as well, and a pile of Starlog Magazine articles, and the backs of the figure and toy packs....

 

It wasn't entirely cogent...

 

Just looking at the list on Wikipedia...

3 Han Solo novels (1979, 1979, 1980)

3 Lando Novels (1983,1983,1983)

Novelizations and Audiobooks of all three movies 

Young Adult Novels of all three versions

two Ewok films (1984/1985)

Star Wars Droids animated series (85-86)

Star Wars: Ewoks animated series (86-86)

NPR Audio Dramas (3 movies adapted, plus a 4th "movie," Return from Ord Mandell, that was original in 1984)

Daily comics (1979-1984)

6 Video Games

Several Marvel monthly comic book series, from 1978-1986, plus marvel monthly strips in Pizzaz. Plus adaptations of all 3 movies.

 

All of this is pre 1987. Most of this was available to WEG.

 

 

You forgot the Holiday Special :P

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You're forgetting 3+ years of Daily comics, as well, and a pile of Starlog Magazine articles, and the backs of the figure and toy packs....

 

All of this is pre 1987. Most of this was available to WEG.

 

 

Yes, but this is still a very, very, VERY tiny fraction of the universe, and not nearly enough for someone to build an entire game around. How many novels are out today? How many comics? How many video games? TV Shows? Hell, Lucasfim has their own EU coordinator - I bet West End Games would have given their right nut for someone like that back in '88!

 

Dreadnaughts? That was invented by them.

Verpine? Them again.

Victory Star Destroyers? Interdictors? Jodo Kast? Torpedo Spheres? BoSS? The ISB? Those basic concepts were all developed by WEG. So yeah, they had to make a LOT of stuff up to fill in the corners and forging new ground - so we should cut them some slack if the numbers didn't crunch 20 years on..

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You're forgetting 3+ years of Daily comics, as well, and a pile of Starlog Magazine articles, and the backs of the figure and toy packs....

 

All of this is pre 1987. Most of this was available to WEG.

 

 

Yes, but this is still a very, very, VERY tiny fraction of the universe, and not nearly enough for someone to build an entire game around. How many novels are out today? How many comics? How many video games? TV Shows? Hell, Lucasfim has their own EU coordinator - I bet West End Games would have given their right nut for someone like that back in '88!

 

Dreadnaughts? That was invented by them.

Verpine? Them again.

Victory Star Destroyers? Interdictors? Jodo Kast? Torpedo Spheres? BoSS? The ISB? Those basic concepts were all developed by WEG. So yeah, they had to make a LOT of stuff up to fill in the corners and forging new ground - so we should cut them some slack if the numbers didn't crunch 20 years on..

More has been built on less by other companies.

 

There have been 2 or 3 Barsoom adaptations, built on a mere 7 or 8 novels, and ones that didn't have much detail, at that (Lots of action, little detail). There was the Aliens RPG, based upon two movies and a tech manual. There was a Cadilacs & Dinosaurs RPG. Palladium built 4 RPG's on  88 roughly-17-minutes-of-content-each episodes.

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Actually, having combed through the Barsoom novels looking for details, there is a lot of it. Units of measure for both time and distance, a fair bit of geography, culture, history, religion, wildlife, it's in there. More than the first six Star Wars novels.

The problem with Star Wars EU now is that. It has gotten too big, drawn from too many sources, and can't entire decide on what is. Canon and what is not.

Take Stormtroopers for example. In a thread on Age of Rebellion I have seen it put forth that they are all clones, and that they are not all clones. At least one EU novel states quite explicitly that Stormtroopers are no longer all clones. In fact by the time of A New Hope/The Empire Strikes Back the majority of Stormtroopers are not clones as the clone troopers have been dying off from age and attrition.

Even the six films contain contradictions, and that is just in the current versions, never mind looking back to the original theatrical releases...

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Wow, it seems to me a bit harsh to expect players to wait for the next book in the rules series to get hold of the mainstay of the imperial fleet! And why include Y-Wings but not X-Wings? I suppose they have to hold something back to fill the next book with but still, seems a bit arbitrary?

 

I hope FFG will give us the stats for key ships such as these before they actually appear in the next rulebook, or else people will make up their own version only to find they are radically different to the published version when it actually appears.

 

Y-Wings were more prevalent in the Outer Rim than X-Wings.  X-Wings were very new in Episode IV and they were pretty much "Rebel only" starfighters.  "Rebel only" means Age of Rebellion.  

 

Also, these are the same people that are making players wait 2 years to be able to play Jedi.   It's a very narrow setting when you think of the entire EU but they had to start somewhere.   Just think of EotE, as game where every GM globally decided "No Rebels and No Jedi!" and it will go easier.

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The West End books made a lot of stuff up, some of which was wrong or didn't fit with the setting - see Y-Wings and TIE Fighters being just as manoeuvrable as each other mechanically, etc.

 

You do realize that the setting - before WEG started publishing - consisted of seven novels and the Marvel Comics run, right? Of course they made a whole bunch of stuff up and pulled stuff out of the air - they had nothing to work with!

 

You're forgetting 3+ years of Daily comics, as well, and a pile of Starlog Magazine articles, and the backs of the figure and toy packs....

 

It wasn't entirely cogent...

 

Just looking at the list on Wikipedia...

3 Han Solo novels (1979, 1979, 1980)

3 Lando Novels (1983,1983,1983)

Novelizations and Audiobooks of all three movies 

Young Adult Novels of all three versions

two Ewok films (1984/1985)

Star Wars Droids animated series (85-86)

Star Wars: Ewoks animated series (86-86)

NPR Audio Dramas (3 movies adapted, plus a 4th "movie," Return from Ord Mandell, that was original in 1984)

Daily comics (1979-1984)

6 Video Games

Several Marvel monthly comic book series, from 1978-1986, plus marvel monthly strips in Pizzaz. Plus adaptations of all 3 movies.

 

All of this is pre 1987. Most of this was available to WEG.

 

 

You forgot the Holiday Special :P

 

No, I just don't list it because almost no one seems to think it canon.

 

Christmas in the stars...

Out among the stars...

What a merry Christmas it will be!

...

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Y-Wings were more prevalent in the Outer Rim than X-Wings.  X-Wings were very new in Episode IV and they were pretty much "Rebel only" starfighters.  "Rebel only" means Age of Rebellion.  

 

 

This is highly subjective to what you personally consider canon. Everything written in the EU or just the movies?, for example. The movies don't tell you if Y-wings or old or new. I DO recall official Star Wars fan magazines in 1977 interviews with George Lucas stating he wanted the Rebel starfighters to be old and used with access panels and such removed for easy repairs. I think this is what later led to the development of Y-wings being aged, not new, by the time of Episode IV, as suggested by the links below:

 

The original Y-Wing model used during the Clone Wars

 

The more modern Y-wing new before some of it's armor plating was removed.

 

Episode IV old, battered Y-wing with some of it's armor playing removed.

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I'm not so sure that we will have to wait for Age of Rebellion for more stats on missing ships, vehicles, and weapons. It seems we may be getting several (6?) supplements before Age of Rebellions is released. We may not be seeing an X-wing or Star Destroyer until Age of Rebellion, but we should be seeing lots of other missing stuff before then.

 

Edge of the Unknown is a supplement available soon. It's description says it is the, "Explorer's Handbook", and, "all players will benefit from new character, vehicle, and equipment options."

 

So it looks like the plan is to have 5 more supplements after this one for the other 5 classes: Bounty Hunter, Colonist, Hired Gun, Smuggler, and Technician. Each will have it's own gear section, possibly with some of our missing vehicles and starships.  I don't think any of these will include an X-Wing (not really available to players until a Rebel campaign anyway) or the Star Destroyer (could be included as a Smuggler opponent?), but we will be getting a wealth of new stuff before Age of Rebellion. At least that is the way I read the writing on the wall with, "Explorer's Handbook" coming soon and FFG obviously wanting to sell some Star Wars stuff while we wait for Age of Rebellion.

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Y-Wings were more prevalent in the Outer Rim than X-Wings.  X-Wings were very new in Episode IV and they were pretty much "Rebel only" starfighters.  "Rebel only" means Age of Rebellion.

 

This is highly subjective to what you personally consider canon. Everything written in the EU or just the movies?, for example. The movies don't tell you if Y-wings or old or new. I DO recall official Star Wars fan magazines in 1977 interviews with George Lucas stating he wanted the Rebel starfighters to be old and used with access panels and such removed for easy repairs. I think this is what later led to the development of Y-wings being aged, not new, by the time of Episode IV, as suggested by the links below:

 

The original Y-Wing model used during the Clone Wars

 

The more modern Y-wing new before some of it's armor plating was removed.

 

Episode IV old, battered Y-wing with some of it's armor playing removed.

This is true, but keep in mind the book has to decide what it holds as canon just the same as players do. The book includes the story of the Incom defection (I believe in the Galaxy section, but I don't remember where). I don't think it's unfair for a game to assume players will believe the provided back story and provide vehicles and other stats that fit with that back story.

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