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Murko

Teleportarium question

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Hello again.

Maybe it was covered before, but i did not find it anywhere so i will ask and hope, that someone will be so kind and replies me. My players have teleportarium on their ship. And they want to do hit and run action. Nothing special i know. But they do not want to teleport the troops but atom bomb in the middle of the enemy ship. Is it possible? probably is. And what next? Will it destroy enemy ship? Or cripple it?

Thx for replies

 

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The Teleportarium as written is a completely broken piece of equipment. But yes; by RAW and by the Fluff, what they want to do is totally possible to do, and would (for all intents and purposes) guarantee the destruction of the ship.

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If you allow it, though, you'll have to continue to live with the fact that your players can now destroy all ships within 5+VU each round without any sort of roll. Further, since it's an extended action, it is possible for some of the crew to use the teleporter before moving, and the rest to use it afterwards.

 

If that's the way you want to play it, sure, go ahead, but I'd just say 'no'. If you wanna be cute about it, you can always refer to the "the GM should allow creative uses" bit from the Atomics rules, and say that using them with teleporters and boarding torpedoes is a painfully obvious combo, not the least bit creative. ;P

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The Teleportarium really should come in various Craftsmanship levels, with rolls for screwups and tables for effects. Whereas a fully functional Best-craftsmanship Teleportarium should be able to do almost the exact things as the current Teleportarium rules, a regular one should have the potential of flat-out not working, losing it's cargo, inflicting Corruption (or insanity, or both in some cases), or picking up a stray as it flicks someone through the Warp.

The way it works right now, it's painfully overpowered no matter how you twist it.

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IMO, let them use it for that purpose.  The trick could really only be used a few times before it becomes a hindrance to them as it becomes something they will have to protect from zealous tech priests, ambitious members of the Navy, a militant member of the Inquisition, Pirates, fellow Rogue Traders, etc.  They'd also be aware of the alpha-strike tactic too and would probably have a small group to a small fleet with them as well to compensate.

 

That's not even getting into them running into a chaos ship employing the same tactic.  Let panic ensue.

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How would they be aware of it, though? It's a virtual guarantee that there won't be any survivors of the party's escapades. Additionally, if the party's ship is anything larger than a frigate, it's going to take a *very* large fleet to combat them. A teleport nuke will take out a battleship as easily as it takes out a raider.

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How would they be aware of it, though? It's a virtual guarantee that there won't be any survivors of the party's escapades. Additionally, if the party's ship is anything larger than a frigate, it's going to take a *very* large fleet to combat them. A teleport nuke will take out a battleship as easily as it takes out a raider.

 

last moment astropath signal, in-system communications, wandering passerby, crew bragging at port, investigations by X-connection to destroyed ship, infiltrations, a tactician familiar with the basic load out of their ship, acquisitions of atomics, investigation of the wreckage of the nuked ship, psyker powers iirc...

 

those are just off the top of my head. 

 

as I said, the trick works once or twice. after a few times, people will probably start to notice.

 

in regards to "combating" them? a small fleet with the right amount of tactics can probably take them down. the trick is to do so without damaging the archaeotech.

Edited by NeoSamurai

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What, all the large Imperial organisations just start launching investigations into the Rogue Trader dynasty at random? And the fact that they use the teleportarium for transporting nukes makes the teleportarium itself more valuable to others? Sounds pretty contrived to me.

 

And what's with the quotation marks? 'Combat' is a perfectly good verb.

 

And taking them out without damaging the archeotech is mostly a question of how many ships you're willing to lose in the process, considering that you'll lose a number of ships equal to the size of the party minus one every round. Most cost-efficient way would probably be to overwhelm them with boarding torpedoes and attack craft, but doing that before they catch up to your capital ships and casually destroy you would require a goodly amount of cruiser-sized ships or bigger. Ships that you are still risking.

 

Then again, ship combat rarely actually destroys any components at all, so the overall best tactic is probably to bring a huge fleet and simply blast them to oblivion before they get in range. Personally, I find there's very little room for finesse in space combat. Massed macrobatteries and a command crew with high stats are the only tactics that matter nine times out of ten.

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What, all the large Imperial organisations just start launching investigations into the Rogue Trader dynasty at random?

Not at random. I'm working on the assumptions that 1)multiple uses of the tactic occurs 2)the opposition the RT takes out with the tactic are going to be missed and 3)the RT crew will have enemies that already have their eyes on them.

barring that, the odds are that one of the several thousands of crew that hit portside may set their jaw about to brag about how they escaped that Chaos Raider or cutthroat pirate.if not, there's always the possibility that part of the crew that didn't return from port-leave (i.e. poor morale, etc.) was actually kidnapped by the RT crew's enemies to disclose some secrets...or replaced with a shapechanger of sorts...

 

And the fact that they use the teleportarium for transporting nukes makes the teleportarium itself more valuable to others? Sounds pretty contrived to me.

A teleportarium by its very existence is more valuable to others. The fact that a RT crew is using it for an alpha-strike in more than one instance makes it an attention getter.

 

And what's with the quotation marks? 'Combat' is a perfectly good verb.

It is, when referring to actual combat and physical warfare.  However, some opposition going after a RT crew will not go for a straight on fight (i.e. Officio-Assassanorium per some of the tales in Into the Storm). I used it mostly to reference your point than anything else (as I've only recently figured out how to use the quotes function on the new forum--like within the last hour).

 

And taking them out without damaging the archeotech is mostly a question of how many ships you're willing to lose in the process, considering that you'll lose a number of ships equal to the size of the party minus one every round. Most cost-efficient way would probably be to overwhelm them with boarding torpedoes and attack craft, but doing that before they catch up to your capital ships and casually destroy you would require a goodly amount of cruiser-sized ships or bigger. Ships that you are still risking.

I'd probably use a combination of main forward assaults as a distraction with a flurry of guncutters to launch for boarders. A sizable fleet really isn't an issue more so the ratio. I'd go with a 5 to one ratio with mostly forward mounted guns to set up a T scenario using the various opposition to use their RT's ship as a cross (placed strategically along a Z-axis to avoid crossfire taking their allies out) as it spreads out fire while minimalizing their target area to the opposition's most likely response of broadsides.

yes, the loss to the opposition would be large, but this is the Imperium we're talking about. millions of soldiers have been thrown against the enemy to protect templates. you could always repair a ship and replenish men, but finding an intact piece of archaeotech is pretty much beyond price and measure.

 

Then again, ship combat rarely actually destroys any components at all, so the overall best tactic is probably to bring a huge fleet and simply blast them to oblivion before they get in range. Personally, I find there's very little room for finesse in space combat. Massed macrobatteries and a command crew with high stats are the only tactics that matter nine times out of ten.

There's some decent bits of finesse and tactics in 18th century ship to ship warfare that could probably be applicable. Add Y and Z axis to the concepts open up some interesting possibilities.

Edited by NeoSamurai

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What sort of ship do they have?

If it's not a raider, enemy raiders will simply run away. Well, probably loosing the first one, but ehy hunts in packs, surely?

 

Do try to fight at range, that's the main reason the Sunsears are so broken.

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Actually, Tenebrae, a Tech-Priest is probably going to be able to push the engine every round for a ton of extra speed, at no risk because he cannot possibly fail by that many degrees. Add to that the mechanics for a stern chase, which the players are essentially never going to lose, and chances are good even a grand cruiser will catch up with the fastest raider.

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Actually, Tenebrae, a Tech-Priest is probably going to be able to push the engine every round for a ton of extra speed, at no risk because he cannot possibly fail by that many degrees. Add to that the mechanics for a stern chase, which the players are essentially never going to lose, and chances are good even a grand cruiser will catch up with the fastest raider.

I'm quite aware of those rules.

I also consider any ship with only Crew Rating (no characters) to be purely irrelevant and prey.

As a GM, you doomed them the moment you decided you couldn't be bothered to stick an NPC or 3 in there.

 

And I still wish I had the OP's problem. His group destroys ships - mine boards them and take them over.

If I wasn't careful about detroying some of their ships every once in a while, they'll build a fleet in no time!

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There's actually a fairly simple fix, in some ways: Glimmer shields.

 

Teleportaria don't work through active void shields*. Normally, that's not an issue for PCs, as they just have to hit the other ship to knock them down that turn before using the teleportarium, and any dynasty worth their salt is going to manage it. However, glimmer shields have a chance of not stopping the hit (and thus not going down for a turn). If you, as GM, decide to fudge it, they're going to wind up still shielded when it comes time for the PCs to H&R.

This does have some downsides- it means that the ship is effectively unshielded, so lances will rip it a new one, and it could probably do with being up-armoured, but given that they were going to destroy it utterly anyway...

 

There's also, if memory serves, a component somewhere which has a chance of resetting the shield before it goes down for the turn, which would do the same thing, with less of a downside. I honestly can't remember which book it might be in, but I'll have a search.

 

*As explained in either ItS or the Errata/FAQ. Can't remember which. It does match with the stuff from Battlefleet Gothic though.

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Wait, wouldn't it be Gellar fields that would block the teleportarium?

Gellar fields block the warp and warp related stuff from getting aboard ship.

Teleportation happens via brief transport through the warp.

Seems pretty self-evident to me.

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Wait, wouldn't it be Gellar fields that would block the teleportarium?

Gellar fields block the warp and warp related stuff from getting aboard ship.

Teleportation happens via brief transport through the warp.

Seems pretty self-evident to me.

 

I've already been considering this for my own players that also have a teleportarium...including having something "pop" through their side. something...interesting.

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Per fluff, it's void shields that block teleportation. Arguably there's no reason you couldn't modify that, telling your players that until a Gellar Field is damaged or unpowered, they're unable to teleport in. Gives a reason for keeping the field powered up, at least.

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I've had a few PC's manage their ships power influx problems by stating they had no need to keep the Void Shields and Gellar Fields operational at the same time.  I too once thought that Gellar Fields stopped Teleportation but could never find a reference for it.  Guess it's a good question to ask FFG. 

 

Question, where is the "Ask FFG" link at?  It used to be at the bottom of the page. 

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Personally I would rule if in combat a test would definitely have to be made to teleport in a bomb. either a BS or Tech use test to properly aim it during combat maneuvers. That or a real hit and run must be done beforehand. I could see it being no test easy if both ships were holding still during communcations or something. but even then maybe a tst to detonate it remotely, or a timer so the other ship has however much time to find and defuse it. theres options out there

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Personally I would rule if in combat a test would definitely have to be made to teleport in a bomb. either a BS or Tech use test to properly aim it during combat maneuvers. That or a real hit and run must be done beforehand. I could see it being no test easy if both ships were holding still during communcations or something. but even then maybe a tst to detonate it remotely, or a timer so the other ship has however much time to find and defuse it. 

This is how I would handle it. Additionally, Void Shields would block the attack unless disabled. (Their must be some reason why everyone in the galaxy doesn't use this fairly simple tactic or some variant thereof [For really  Icky consider a virus bomb teleported i/s the enemy ship! :o ). Those reasons probably include; A to hit roll in combat; Shields will defeat it; Limited range (In BFG you have to be within 10cm for a teleporter to function) and potentially others! Also, Remember that atomics don't grow on trees! Just because the explorers aquire one somehow does not mean they should be able to load the "Arsenal of democracy  :wacko:  on every vessel!

Edited by Radwraith

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it was ruled with our group that due to the reaction of the teleportium tech and radioactive materials in a working nuke couldn't be teleported safely. 10% chance it gets where it's going and goes off, 10% chance it gets there but doesn't go off. (50/50 chance the bomb is broken in some way preventing it from ever going off.) 10 % it detonates in the teleportium (on your ship) 10% it doesn't go anywhere with the 50/50 broken. 20% chance it appears between target and you and goes off. 20 % between and doesn't go off with 50/50 rule. 20% chance it goes somewhere else. (GM decides where and when this is. could go off in the warp, or you could find it 10 years later in the crypts of some forgotten xeno world balanced on the edge of a dropoff with crystalized prometium covering every rock.) 

 

by these rules they can send it at their own risk, it has both saved the group and party wiped us before. 

nuke/boarding torp/bomber/other small craft. the radioactivity of the bomb acts as a homing device and targeter for turrets. 

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Without reading all of these, to know if this was already said, I'd argue that a ship with active void shields/Geller field need not worry about you beaming an active nuke aboard their ship. Whether they are blocking a site to site beam, the targeting sensors, or the warp disturbance that a teleportation is, said defenses should need to be hammered down first, in which case you've already entered into general combat.

 

Otherwise, the crew would have to ask why this trick hasn't been done to them, already, if it is so easy, as the teleportarium might be the single most frequently selected Archeotech add-on, based on its awesomeness factor.

 

As for balancing the use of the teleportaruim, I'd say add a variant of the rules for the warp jump generator in Koronus Bestiary (p.55). Some Tech-Priest makes a Tech-Use roll to operate the teleportarium, and if the roll is doubles, or something slightly more common, the transported people must make a Hard (-20) Willpower test, or blink away FOREVER. In this way, the device is cool, but not without risk. Objects can't save, so you might lose some precious cargo to mishaps, if you are known to marathon-beam large quantities of loot, but the strength of will of living passengers COULD save them. I know that the book is vague, and doesn't say that, but yeah, the teleportarium can be cheese. One of the books gives still vague extra stuff to include with the teleportarium, as they probably realized that it was cheese, but I can't remember which.

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I think there is a reason that teleportariums are a rare technology. Sure, a Rogue Trader could likely get his/her hands on one, but a what cost? Pardon the pun, but that cost has simply got to be astronomical. Teleportariums are used by the Astartes to teleport Terminators into the middle of Hulks. I'm sure they just don't randomly pip them in and hope their arrival point is significant. They scan, I'm sure, for whatever criteria is most important to the mission. Some Terminators have collapsed upon arrival, twisted and smoking husks, the result of teleportarium mishaps.

 

For a Rogue Trader Id say the minimum required to teleport a "nuke" is knowing where it has to go, and knowing that location very well, which would require (some of) the PC having to make a hit and run boarding attack, make their way to a vital part of the ship, and activate a teleport homer. Sure you teleport it over, but without knowing the coordinates of a sizable location maybe it teleports partially into a bulkhead and falls apart, useless. Well, maybe it leaks enriched plutonium into the atmosphere- population damage at best, not spectacular ship atomization. 

 

But, uh, then those same PCs have to leave by the boring assault boat. Teleportariums don't work like Star Trek transporters- they're not a "two-way street".

Edited by Brother Orpheo

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