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sockmerchant

Murderous PC's

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I agree with a lot of what has been said here in terms of tips.  There's no way their murderous actions would go unnoticed.  I'd hit them hard with multiple set back dice on most social interactions with any moderately sane people. I'd start having their contacts dry up and hit them pretty heavily with imperial intervention.  If they're constantly running into heavy armed imperial forces and they're forced to run away from most fights they might start to see they need to probably change things a bit. Again, the most important thing is that your players are having fun so whatever works for you. 

 

Personally, I find players that just want to be assholes and murder everyone are below the maturity level that I want to game with. Being purely evil is just so "easy" that I can't imagine doing it.  I mean, just shooting every one in the face instead of interacting with NPCs and engaging in dialogue really limits the scope of the game.  The pre-written adventures are filled with clever openings during interactions that allow for side quests or hidden bonuses. Edge of the Empire is awesome because it presents so many opportunities to "ride the line" with morality.  Your characters aren't perfect angels. They come with a back story and substantial obligation from their "past life".  They're dealing in drugs, killing gangsters, thugs and crime lords left and right.  They can be cutthroat and tough but still have a modest conscience (whether from their own moral choices or out of fear of authority) .

 

Didn't mean to rant, and to each his own. That's just my two cents. :)

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If you'd like to deal with them in a more in universe in character way... drawing that much attention with criminal acts in the Outer Rim will get the attention of Sector Rangers, the arm of Imperial law enforcement that tends to function out there and actually cares about getting the bad guys. If they start killing Sector Rangers... well that's going to get the Empire interested in what's happening.

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Personally, I find players that just want to be assholes and murder everyone are below the maturity level that I want to game with. Being purely evil is just so "easy" that I can't imagine doing it.

 

This.  Plus I'd start to wonder when one of these jokers will start feeling that the game isn't "enough"...

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There is an inherent benefit to leaving no witnesses alive - it actually reduces the likelyhood that you'll build up many types of Obligation. Bounties put out on "the unknown party responsible for the _________ massacre" are not too likely to be posted unless evidence can be collected (and CSI Outer Rim isn't too likely in most places).

 

Of course, did they make sure that everyone was dead? Did they miss a CCTV camera somewhere? Was there a hobo in the dumpster who saw the whole thing? Did they leave any DNA behind (in the form of blood from wounds) that might be traced? Footprints? Did the victims have a datapad recording a message home when the whole thing went down?

 

Once they might be able to get away with. Several times? Unlikely.

 

Hell, have a local constabulary (not a stormtrooper, just the local cops) make his rounds and see the incident. They'll kill him too - but then the local police will drop the hammer on them BIG to bring these psychopaths to justice as a result.

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Thanks guys, 

 

Re the maturity levels. Well...it aint massively high, but honestly they aren't being complete dooshes as players... just as PC's. They role play their PCs dooshyness VERY well. And... we are having a lot of fun.

 

In general, I realise most of them prefer (or lean towards) combat so provide a lot of that... preferably in locations that lends itself to the extreme action sequences of the 90's action movie variety. In the last two weeks alone they have narrowly ascaped a sabotaged station, shot a fish tank containing space sharks to deal with enemies, jumped out of a 4 story building into a pool to escape, and a bunch more similar things. But I do like to throw some negotiation and other stuff in there as well.

 

Part of the problem is that I have six players. It only takes one to be a doosh for it all to fall over.

 

In addition to some of the stuff I mentioned above, I was thinking about putting some posters around the place with the players photos. Some will be the "wanted" type. Others praising the vigilantes taking on the criminal underworld (due to the places they have been hitting so far).

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I'll say this again: Star Wars doesn't have surveillance tech as prolific as modern-day RL. They don't readily have CSI labs that go to work on every little thing happening in the Outer Rim (and killing a half dozen nobodies is still a little thing in the SW universe). While CC cameras are certainly around, they are typically obvious and record on-site. Remember that the baseline tech of this setting is reskinned 70s/80s where starships = automobiles and blasters = firearms. Other elements, like lightsabers and bacta better resemble magic. However, this is not the place for ultra-tech miracles pulled out of Star Trek, nor even of modern cutting edge forensics (consider how hard it was to track down the crew of the MF after it was identified as having been resposible for the destruction of the Death Star).

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I can only add a short note on this, I'll comment more later. As a mechanic, I would say that if the act is really awful, the group forfeits a light destiny point, which begins building up a much larger dark side destiny pool... and the players suddenly start experiencing more chances for despair.

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Thanks guys, 

 

Re the maturity levels. Well...it aint massively high, but honestly they aren't being complete dooshes as players... just as PC's. They role play their PCs dooshyness VERY well. And... we are having a lot of fun.

 

In general, I realise most of them prefer (or lean towards) combat so provide a lot of that... preferably in locations that lends itself to the extreme action sequences of the 90's action movie variety. In the last two weeks alone they have narrowly ascaped a sabotaged station, shot a fish tank containing space sharks to deal with enemies, jumped out of a 4 story building into a pool to escape, and a bunch more similar things. But I do like to throw some negotiation and other stuff in there as well.

 

Part of the problem is that I have six players. It only takes one to be a doosh for it all to fall over.

 

In addition to some of the stuff I mentioned above, I was thinking about putting some posters around the place with the players photos. Some will be the "wanted" type. Others praising the vigilantes taking on the criminal underworld (due to the places they have been hitting so far).

Wai wai wai wai wait...."space sharks"? Really, space sharks? Did they have frickin laser beams attached to their heads?

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Thanks guys, 

 

Re the maturity levels. Well...it aint massively high, but honestly they aren't being complete dooshes as players... just as PC's. They role play their PCs dooshyness VERY well. And... we are having a lot of fun.

 

In general, I realise most of them prefer (or lean towards) combat so provide a lot of that... preferably in locations that lends itself to the extreme action sequences of the 90's action movie variety. In the last two weeks alone they have narrowly ascaped a sabotaged station, shot a fish tank containing space sharks to deal with enemies, jumped out of a 4 story building into a pool to escape, and a bunch more similar things. But I do like to throw some negotiation and other stuff in there as well.

 

Part of the problem is that I have six players. It only takes one to be a doosh for it all to fall over.

 

In addition to some of the stuff I mentioned above, I was thinking about putting some posters around the place with the players photos. Some will be the "wanted" type. Others praising the vigilantes taking on the criminal underworld (due to the places they have been hitting so far).

Wai wai wai wai wait...."space sharks"? Really, space sharks? Did they have frickin laser beams attached to their heads?

 

Wait until space sharks combine with a force storm to produce the next Syfy film...

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Wai wai wai wai wait...."space sharks"? Really, space sharks? Did they have frickin laser beams attached to their heads?

 

 

**** it! That would have been even cooler! <makes notes about adding lasers to future space sharks>

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Wai wai wai wai wait...."space sharks"? Really, space sharks? Did they have frickin laser beams attached to their heads?

 

 

**** it! That would have been even cooler! <makes notes about adding lasers to future space sharks>

 

I'm not sure they have enough hard points for that modification.

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Thanks guys, 

 

Re the maturity levels. Well...it aint massively high, but honestly they aren't being complete dooshes as players... just as PC's. They role play their PCs dooshyness VERY well. And... we are having a lot of fun.

 

In general, I realise most of them prefer (or lean towards) combat so provide a lot of that... preferably in locations that lends itself to the extreme action sequences of the 90's action movie variety. In the last two weeks alone they have narrowly ascaped a sabotaged station, shot a fish tank containing space sharks to deal with enemies, jumped out of a 4 story building into a pool to escape, and a bunch more similar things. But I do like to throw some negotiation and other stuff in there as well.

 

Part of the problem is that I have six players. It only takes one to be a doosh for it all to fall over.

 

In addition to some of the stuff I mentioned above, I was thinking about putting some posters around the place with the players photos. Some will be the "wanted" type. Others praising the vigilantes taking on the criminal underworld (due to the places they have been hitting so far).

 

While they are not force sensitive, the killing of innocents could attract some attention through the force.  Personally, I'd probably introduce a darkside force using nemesis with perhaps a squad full of stormtrooper commandos if they haven't taken some hints.  They might lose a ship, equipment, or a few limbs...

 

Obligation increase is also a good thing if you are using a cap that stops them from skilling up.

Edited by Dharus

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I'll say this again: Star Wars doesn't have surveillance tech as prolific as modern-day RL. They don't readily have CSI labs that go to work on every little thing happening in the Outer Rim (and killing a half dozen nobodies is still a little thing in the SW universe). While CC cameras are certainly around, they are typically obvious and record on-site. Remember that the baseline tech of this setting is reskinned 70s/80s where starships = automobiles and blasters = firearms. Other elements, like lightsabers and bacta better resemble magic. However, this is not the place for ultra-tech miracles pulled out of Star Trek, nor even of modern cutting edge forensics (consider how hard it was to track down the crew of the MF after it was identified as having been resposible for the destruction of the Death Star).

That's true. They mostly just use holo technology, which doesn't even have color (and its resolution is pretty crap). Their computer technology and our's is completely different. Pretty much everything is black base screen with a few colors (remember the view of the Death Star approaching Yavin?) or holo-projections.

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If they entered the area where the target was, and killed people, once, they might slide - someone will have vid of them entering the area, but not of need enough to satisfy the local Officer for the Stormtroopers.

 

If the witnesses start to disappear, the Impies will start running face rec on everyone for a window either side. And once isolated, they WILL be taken out. Especially after the local ST Supervising Officer issues a warrant for their arrest, "Dead or Alive, no questions asked."

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I had this issue during a d20 Star Wars campaign. My PCs were bounty hunter mercs for hire. They had no issues killing innocents for their own gain. My first step was having them recruited by a crime organization to give them some more structure (giving them jobs) instead of going off on their own which eventually led to grand larceny and murder. When that didn't work exactly as planned, they bumped into some Rebels and were eventually recruited to the good side. Their actions quickly turned more sane.

 

Is your key issue not wanting a dark campaign at all or just want some appropriate punishements?

 

Try mental games to move their gaming personalities towards good? Their violent actions accidentally kill a child or orphan another? They feel horrible. A small poor colony has been ransacked and taken over by a pirate group. The players end up helping rid them of the pirates and the colony now thinks of them as heroes. The players feel good. Then, the Black Sun sends them a request for a mission to exterminate the small colony since the pirates were actually Black Sun agents. The PCs do the right thing (hopefully) again taking the side of the colonists. Of course this would end their Black Sun affiliation so won't work if that is not what you had hoped for. The players then use their criminal skills to smuggle the colony and its assets away to a hidden location and become their guardians from the nefarious Black Sun.

 

 

Just remember that PCs in this game are not shining lights in the darkness. When you can have characters that have Specializations like Assassin and Marauder, that should tell you that they are not required to play nice with others. And also, Han shot Greedo in cold blood. He's the iconic character for this game (along with Chewbacca, Boba Fett, and Lando), and he committed murder within his first few minutes on the screen.

 

From a legal standpoint I must chime in. Greedo was committing Aggravated Assault (threatening with deadly force) against Han. In self-defense, Han shoots Greedo. A modern US court would likely find Han innocent of any charges, especially regarding Murder (self-defense, stand-your-ground, etc). Tatooine's legal system probably has even more liberal interpretations when it comes to crime and weapons.

Edited by Sturn

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I had this issue during a d20 Star Wars campaign. My PCs were bounty hunter mercs for hire. They had no issues killing innocents for their own gain. My first step was having them recruited by a crime organization to give them some more structure (giving them jobs) instead of going off on their own which eventually led to grand larceny and murder. When that didn't work exactly as planned, they bumped into some Rebels and were eventually recruited to the good side. Their actions quickly turned more sane.

 

Is your key issue not wanting a dark campaign at all or just want some appropriate punishements?

 

Try mental games to move their gaming personalities towards good? Their violent actions accidentally kill a child or orphan another? They feel horrible. A small poor colony has been ransacked and taken over by a pirate group. The players end up helping rid them of the pirates and the colony now thinks of them as heroes. The players feel good. Then, the Black Sun sends them a request for a mission to exterminate the small colony since the pirates were actually Black Sun agents. The PCs do the right thing (hopefully) again taking the side of the colonists. Of course this would end their Black Sun affiliation so won't work if that is not what you had hoped for. The players then use their criminal skills to smuggle the colony and its assets away to a hidden location and become their guardians from the nefarious Black Sun.

 

 

Just remember that PCs in this game are not shining lights in the darkness. When you can have characters that have Specializations like Assassin and Marauder, that should tell you that they are not required to play nice with others. And also, Han shot Greedo in cold blood. He's the iconic character for this game (along with Chewbacca, Boba Fett, and Lando), and he committed murder within his first few minutes on the screen.

 

From a legal standpoint I must chime in. Greedo was committing Aggravated Assault (threatening with deadly force) against Han. In self-defense, Han shoots Greedo. A modern US court would likely find Han innocent of any charges, especially regarding Murder (self-defense, stand-your-ground, etc). Tatooine's legal system probably has even more liberal interpretations when it comes to crime and weapons.

Greedo may have had his blaster on Stun. For that matter, Han certainly could have put his blaster on Stun, so his use of deadly force cannot be claimed as self-defense by modern sensibilities. Also, was Greedo a licensed bounty hunter in pursuit of a legal bounty? If so, his changes the self-defense argument.

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New to these forums, but EotE brought me to here. My campaign aims to also play characters who are also employeed in the criminal underworld. Not contracts for hire, but full employment where all supplies are covered, nice gifts so on, but of course the situation is that they can't say "no" to any kind of mission.

 

When it comes to your game. Run with it, There is a lot of good suggestions. PC's can earn Obligation for actions like this. They can earn the ire from Black Sun for being noticed(operatives that can't move freely become harder to work with). Have them reprimanded by the Black Sun, have the official's have an APB on their ship and faces. They are forced to travel more incognito. Let the 100+ Obligation Stress be a constant strain until they manage to get the heat cooled on them. Once it's managable don't go on saying that what they did is bad, but let keep on feeling the repercussions of such public spectacles.

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Sorry but I did not go through the entire forum just a large hunk of it.

 

Be careful with increasing obligation. Send a cool bounty hunter after them for something they did? Thats just one more enemy to kill and stuff to loot. Soon enough you'll keep escalating to the point where the story stops as you spend every session trying to arrest or kill them. Which can be fun if you do a Last Chancers prisoner type deal.

 

It really creates a very GM vs players attitude or it can cause it so be careful.

 

Sometimes its just best to sit them down and tell them that their heartless actions or over the top, while fun, make it difficult to run the game and ask them to reign it in a little.

 

Blowing up a room full of civilians for no reason is over the top. Thats the kind of stuff they could leave out and still have just as much fun.

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Definitely hit them up with Obligation. You don't need to baby them with .. are you sure? you will get X, if you do Y. They are acting like murderers, treat them like murderers. Give them 10 Obligation and let them realize that generating so much heat will cook them.

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From a legal standpoint I must chime in. Greedo was committing Aggravated Assault (threatening with deadly force) against Han. In self-defense, Han shoots Greedo. A modern US court would likely find Han innocent of any charges, especially regarding Murder

U.S. courts generally find people Not Guilty rather than Innocent, but I agree that Han didn't murder Greedo, but acted in self defense, from an ethical standpoint even if not a legal one.

Greedo had a blaster pointed at Han from like a yard away and had at least implicitly threatened to kill him. For Han to shoot Greedo under those circumstances seems completely defensible.

Now, Special Edition Han is a different story. Special Edition Greedo took a shot at Han from like a yard away and missed, so he clearly wasn't a real threat to Han, but Han killed him anyway. Special Edition Han is one cold dude.

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Definitely hit them up with Obligation. You don't need to baby them with .. are you sure? you will get X, if you do Y. They are acting like murderers, treat them like murderers. Give them 10 Obligation and let them realize that generating so much heat will cook them.

 

Yeah I'll just give them a heads up "yo you guys have been causing a lot of collateral damage and a lot of people are missing family members. Continue as you are if you want but there will be obligation etc to contend with. 

 

They have a bunch of role play to do next session, so it would be good to let them know before they shoot everyone they are supposed to talk to. 

Edited by sockmerchant

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If you have a weapon that can take an opponent out without killing them (blaster on stun) and you choose to use it in a lethal setting, its a true stretch to claim self-defense.

 

Actually no, it's not.  As a Law Enforcement officer I can tell you right now that if someone is pointing a firearm at me in a threatening manner I am in no way obligated to use my TASER against said person just because I have it available.  On a force to force level, you don't respond to a firearm by pulling out a non-lethal weapon.

Edited by GalenParatus

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