Scene Reading Post: Interpretating scenes in Edge of the Empire "SWTOR Deceived Cinematic"

[Josep Maria 685]

Hi people!

 

Edge of the Empire is a trully awesome cinematic game but usually some people, including myself, would like to interprete some scenes on movies or games using game mechanics.

 

This is the typical question to that scenes that people use to make when looking videos and say: "How can I do it with my character GM?".

 

The first scene that I would thank that you could help me is the one from SWTOR Cinematic: Deceived 

 where the Sith Lord enters the Jedi Temple and in less than 4-5 seconds kills 2 soldiers with 2 fast lightsaber moves, another one (maybe two) with some kind of slaming kinetic power (don't care if it isn't created yet, lets says that he waves a hand and kill/push someone XD) and after that he throws the weapon with kinetic power again and kills the 2 remaining guards.

 

2 saber hits, 1 Force Power and another one (lightsaber throw) in less than 5 seconds without any soldier reaction.

 

How its possible in Edge?

 

Another part is where the red haired bounty hunter appears suddenly and makes two fast shoots killing two guards and turns around and kill the third one in less than 3 seconds without letting them react.

 

Of course there are other interesting scenes in the movie but, maybe thos ones are the most "hard to splain with mechanics".

 

Thank you so much for your help!

 

[Hungry Donner 10]

This would be done using minion groups. When minions are grouped, their wound threshold is combined and shared. A critical hit will always kill 1 minion in a group. Even though their threshold is combined a member of the group will still die when the base threshold for the NPC is exceeded, then the damage carries to the next. For example lets say there are 3 guards each have 5 threshold for a total of fifteen. If the group takes 5 damage then, one member will die off. With the reminder carrying over it PC can cut through a minion group fast. Lets say this PC crits. The crit automatically kills one, the damage total 12 which is enough to kill the last two. Minion groups will help make PC's feel powerful.

 

 So for the first scene, I would have run it as follows.

 

*You approach the Jedi Temple. The guards eye you unsure of the danger you present*

Initiative has not been rolled at this point.

 

The player then attacks, initiating the combat.The players first attack is made, it is technically outside of combat because it was a unexpected/sudden/surprise attack. The player crits and kills one minion and the damage carriers over to kill the second.

 

Initiative is rolled. Player goes first. Player then takes his action to take out the rest/second minion group.

 

The second part with bounty hunter would be handled in the same fashion, using minion groups to represent the overwhelming skill/prowess of the PC.

 

Easy peezy.

 

I hope this helped. 

 

EDIT: edited for clarity

Edited July 28, 2013 by Hungry Donner

[Josep Maria 685]

Wow... just a simple an awesome answer O.o XD

 

Yep almost 100% probably, I received the book a few days ago and I'm not already fully familiarized with the rules but the "minion group" fact its one brilliant idea to describe all those "overpowered scenes" where you see characters doing awesome things and the only thing you can use to do is say "what the...?! how he/shedo that in roleplay mechanics?!" XD

 

Probably there will be a few scenes that can only be justified by "cinematic way" but until the moment, this one seems that fits un rules. Of course other points of view are always thanks.

 

Thanks again Hungry Donner!

[Hungry Donner 10]

No problem! This is actually a really good exercise for GMs. I used to do a lot with LotR and D&D. It is awesome that you are looking at these scenes in a rules set framework! Keep doing it and your games will improve.  

Edited July 28, 2013 by Hungry Donner

[Josep Maria 685]

Yep, we use to think that a good system mechanics (ambiented on a concrete world like SW) MUST represent canonic scenes from movies, TV series. Videogame mechanics not necessarelly but yes their cinematic scenes like SWTOR or Force Unleashed.

 

If the game mechanics can represent a proper scene without so much "GM patches" then the system is a good "ambientation  emulator" to us.

 

Until the moment, Edge satisfies our desires

[gwek 123]

I like Hungry Donner's explanation, but will offer some alternate takes, especially with respect to the Bounty Hunter moment:

 

Shae Viszla (that's her official name, although I may have the spelling wrong) kills two guards, then turns and kills a third, before any of them really react.

 

Version One: Shae gets the drop on the NPC guards and kills the first two during a "surprise round." (I forget if EotE calls it that, but there must be some analog, then wins initiative on the first "real"  round and kills Guard #3 before they can act.

 

Version Two: Shae is stealthy. She ambushes the first two guards and the third, in a different location, fails his Perception roll to identify the threat -- so, once again, Shae gets the drop on him.

 

Version Three: In this one, it's all how the GM describes it. Shae one again acts first and drops two guards. Next, the remaining guard attacks and fails his roll. Most often, this would be interpreted by the GM as "the guard misses," but there's no reason the GM couldn't describe it different for effect -- eg, "The guard is totally unprepared and stumbles for his gun... Your turn."

 

Although RPGing, especially cinematic RPGing like EotE, attempts to replicate the feel of a movie, it's important to remember that screenwriting and RPGing are very different forms of storytelling, especially in pacing.

 

Good screenwriting, at it's core, alternates between HOPE and FEAR. In one beat, we *hope* the hero will succeed; in the next, we *fear* that that will fail. For variety, screenwriters will sometimes go from hope to greater hope, or fear to greater fear, but in general, if you have more than 2 of the same "type" of beat strung together, it starts to get boring. Every see a movie where you get bored because the hero is too powerful? Too much hope. Ever zone out because you feel like the hero has no logical chance of surviving? Too much fear. Good screenwriting dances between hope and fear on a scene level and an action level.

 

RPGing, though, is predicated on everyone getting to act in order, and success or failure is based on random die rolls, so it's impossible to control the hope/fear balance...  and sometimes even the pacing, although the same rules about too much of either apply. In my experience, players are equally bored when they're in a fight then can't win or can't lose.

 

Another interesting point about the two moments that the OP chose as very hard to replicate in RPGing: anyone else notice that those are the first times we seen Malgus and Shae in action? In both cases, the director (or "GM") is giving these guys a little leeway to show how tough they are. Similarly, it's illogical that the few dozen Jedi who are confronting Malgus would choose NOT to act when the troop transport crashes into the temple, but to properly establish the scene and set the tone, the director needs them to hold.

 

Although it's a bit off-topic from the original post, I think there's an interesting lesson in here about introducing threats. A good director -- or a good GM -- needs to introduces their threats dramatically and effectively, demonstrating just how dangerous they are. Why? so the PCs *fear* losing but *hope* that they may be able to pull out a victory.

[Josep Maria 685]

Pretty good explanations too

 

Arguing with my friend about those scenes ad game mechanics we use to say that we are not looking for a perfect "real life simulator" with full physic rules, instead of that we are looking for a game mechanics that emulates SW universe.

 

Edge seems the right option (comparing with the preview ones) also and in a big part thanks to cinematic components that it has.

 

I'm happy to see people here that when see a bunch of dices or skill results look upon an awesome result or a "cinematic" response to players (and GM's ) that just want to have a great cinematic play time with a minimal guide mechanics thats help to add "luck factor" on stories and gives liberty to recreate or create new situations.

 

Thanks people

Edited July 28, 2013 by Josep Maria

[Sixgun387 69]

You might also consider using the optional One-Check Combat Resolution rule on page 323.  Both the Malgus and Vizsla encounters in the "Deceived" trailer seemed to be against Minions that were meant to be cannon fodder.  This is fine, and as gwek noted can build tension and whet your PCs' appetites for the more strenuous parts of the encounter.

[Josep Maria 685]

Yep, I like the "no need to roll, just describe an awesome scene" I use to use it a lot of times Seems that Edge considers all those situations with a minimal specs to say an "accurated" resolve. Thanks again!

 

I haven't seen yet rules about big scales fights but sure that applying those rules tons of people could recreate scenes even with a minimum dice guide.

[Reydan 173]

On a side note, I fully intend to make a one-shot some time where the PC party are a bunch of Jedi and soldiers from this scene and I'm literally just going to keep throwing things at them until they die.  Even if I need to bring in Malgus (who will be MUCH stronger than they are.)  It promises to be a really fun combat exercise!

[Josep Maria 685]

One doubt about minon groups. I readed in other posts that there is no limit to minon stack on upgrades, so 10 Storm Troopers will have 6 Proficency dices? Not sure if there is a limit on groups and how it has to be determined properly.

[Reydan 173]

Well, there's been no precedent of a skill being allowed to gain more than 5 ranks in any one skill.  So, after 6 people in one minion, group, the only real benefit is a higher wound threshold, and thus, a bigger buffer before they start losing those skill ranks.  Otherwise, a squad of 10 Stormtroopers would be rolling like, 9 dice, with at least 2 or 3 Proficiency.

 

(that's completely broken as all hell, by the way.)

Edited July 31, 2013 by Endrik Tenebris

[Tenrousei 80]

One doubt about minon groups. I readed in other posts that there is no limit to minon stack on upgrades, so 10 Storm Troopers will have 6 Proficency dices? Not sure if there is a limit on groups and how it has to be determined properly.

 

The upgrade process for minions is a little more complex than that. Storm troopers (ST), Which I believe have Ranged Heavy listed as a skill of theirs are also, I believe, Agility 3-4 (for the sake of explination I'll go w/ 3).  Minions only receive an upgrade for every minion in the group beyond the first, so 2 ST woul roll Yellow, Green, Green (YGG) 3 would get YYG and 4 would get YYY, 5 would be YYYG as per the upgrade rules. 10 would be ... YYYYYY, which is seriously going to damage your PC's, like death kind of damage.

 

I would split the ST's into groups of no more than 5 for the purposes of initiative, and to keep the party alive.

[Reydan 173]

 

One doubt about minon groups. I readed in other posts that there is no limit to minon stack on upgrades, so 10 Storm Troopers will have 6 Proficency dices? Not sure if there is a limit on groups and how it has to be determined properly.

 

The upgrade process for minions is a little more complex than that. Storm troopers (ST), Which I believe have Ranged Heavy listed as a skill of theirs are also, I believe, Agility 3-4 (for the sake of explination I'll go w/ 3).  Minions only receive an upgrade for every minion in the group beyond the first, so 2 ST woul roll Yellow, Green, Green (YGG) 3 would get YYG and 4 would get YYY, 5 would be YYYG as per the upgrade rules. 10 would be ... YYYYYY, which is seriously going to damage your PC's, like death kind of damage.

 

I would split the ST's into groups of no more than 5 for the purposes of initiative, and to keep the party alive.

 

I don't think that's how it works still, since I don't think their Skill ranks can go above 5.  But I still wouldn't go above 5 or 6 per minion group unless you really wanted them to cut through people.  XD