Eidolon and character insane

[marcoa.ramirez@gmail.com 4]

I play Eidolon over a destroyed opponent's character. Eidolon become a Attachment. But if the character will be insane, ¿what happening? I presume the character return owner's discard pile

 

It is correct?

==========  Neutral  ==========

Eidolon
-------
Type : Event
Cost : 1
Subtype :
Game Text : Response: After a character is destroyed by an opponent's card effect, return that character to play under your control and attach Eidolon to it (counts as an Attachment support card with the text "Attached character loses all icons and gains Invulnerability. No skill checks can resolve at a story at which attached character is committed.").
Flavor text :
Illustrator : Rafal Hrynkiewicz
Collector's Info : The Key and The Gate F41

 

 

[jhaelen 98]

I have to admit I have no idea. The most likely interpretation is that you are correct.

 

Imho, the card should mention what happens after the attachment is removed, though.

'Back from the Dead' (ImoD 35) has a very similar effect but mentions that the character is sacrificed when the attachment leaves play.

Edited July 30, 2013 by jhaelen

[.Zephyr. 1]

I think if it leaves play character goes back to normal. I see no rule to do anything with the character so IMO it stays in play insane.

 

If it was owned by opponent it is still controlled by you IMO, as eidolon attachment text doesn't say anything about control, and event part didn't specify duration, so for "take control" effect i think its permanent.

 

But I'm not sure there are that many card effects that destroy your own characters. Sacrifice, yes, destroy, not that much. Mummy and Khopesh come to mind.

 

Better ask designers though. Might be totally wrong on this one.

Edited July 29, 2013 by .Zephyr.

[jhaelen 98]

Well a post by dboeren over at BGG reminded me of the following:

From the FAQ:
"If an attached card gives you control of another player’s card, you retain control of the attached card only as long as the attached card is in play."

So, at least one thing is sure: if the character loses the Eidolon attachment, control will revert to its owner.

 

I still think the card text should be amended similar to 'Back from the Dead'.

[.Zephyr. 1]

a) back from the dead is another card, Eidolon is not back from the dead... so lets read what is on the card, rather than what we would like to see there...

b) The control isn't granted by attachment, the attachment text doesn't have any part about controlling character, control was granted by event part

Edited August 1, 2013 by .Zephyr.

[HilariousPete 4]

a) back from the dead is another card, Eidolon is not back from the dead... so lets read what is on the card, rather than what we would like to see there...

b) The control isn't granted by attachment, the attachment text doesn't have any part about controlling character, control was granted by event part

a) Jhaelen doesn't read anything from Back From the Dead into Eidolon. He just expressed his wish for Eidolon being worded more clearly (for example, stating what happens when Eidolon leaves play but not the character).

b) Right, good obeservation. Control-taking triggered effects are permanent effects, so I'd also vote for "the character stays in play under your control if your Eidolon is removed". (As if this were a democracy )

 

Granted, the FAQ entry doesnt specifically mention the phrase "return to play", but I think it is sensible to extrapolate the entry to include this phrase:

1.4) Duration of Effects

If a triggered effect has no specified

duration, then the effects of that

ability expire at the end of the current

phase. “Put into play,” “Remove from

play,” and “Take Control” effects

are all an exceptions to this rule, and

unless specified by a specific duration

are considered to be permanent effects.

With “take control” effects, control of

the card in question is granted to the

most recent “take control” effect.

[jhaelen 98]

b) The control isn't granted by attachment, the attachment text doesn't have any part about controlling character, control was granted by event part

Well, if you want to engage in a nit-picking contest, I'll counter that the FAQ isn't talking about an Attachment, it's talking about an 'attached card', and the text describing the control effect is indeed written on the 'attached card', right? Your turn!

Edited August 2, 2013 by jhaelen

[.Zephyr. 1]

Its not nitpicking. Eidolon is not an attachment, Eidolon is an event, that creates an attachment in the process. If it was like Parallel universe I'd agree with you, but its not. Big part of effect is not attachements text.

 

And this FAQ entry was added for Stygnian eye to cover its duration. But maybe its intended to apply here.... i'd say no, but maybe.

 

There is a point about ">attached card< gives you control of another player’s card" i still think its not attached card that gives control, its effect of an event that was already resolved that gave control, and attached card effect is only:

"Attached character loses all icons and gains Invulnerability. No skill checks can resolve at a story at which attached character is committed."

that has nothing to do with control. but the event happens to be printed on the same card... i think an official ruling would be nice here and wording FAQ entry to be more clear on this.

 

And definitely going insane seems like a big issue, as I initially thought character leaves play too, but there is no rule to justify that, so i think it stays in play.

Edited August 3, 2013 by .Zephyr.

[TheProfessor 4]

I think I agree with .Zephyr.

 

The first part of the Response has two things - ...return that character to play under your control and attach Eidolon to it.  

 

To me, the "and" implies two distinct and independent elements.

 

If it had said "Attach Eidolon to return that character to play under your control." then the analysis would be clear.  But, as written, I think the control comes from the Response, and is independent of the attachment.

[jhaelen 98]

Well, I disagree. I'll foward the question to Damon.

[jhaelen 98]

Okay, I've got Damon's answer:

 

Absolutely nothing happens after the Eidolon attachment is removed in any way. In other words: the character stays in play and control does not change.

Edited August 5, 2013 by jhaelen