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sherpa74

Does the toxic hydra effect aply to units entering in play later in the same turn?

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The question is in the topic, some people plays like that but i'm not sure, if i put a new unit from hand or move a unit from another zone to the zone that the effect of the hydra was aplied, the new entering unit gets the -2 hp?

Thanks for replays.

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I'm agree with you, but there is a polish player called Przemo, that finish 2nd in polish tournament on june with and end of times deck, that plays it on the other way, generating a constant effect in the corresponding zone until the end of turn that gives all the units there  -2hp, and does not matter the unit was already there or enters later in the turn. He plays Scions of misery in the same way. For me, playing empire, the diference was important.

21-95.jpg23-15.jpg

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:D Hi. No i'm not polish, Bery told me this in an octgn play. We were playing 1st round of 2nd international octgn tournament and this situation occurs in final turn of final game, my 2nd zone was burned by 1 point of damage becouse the unit that enter in play later in turn gets the -2 hp. The grudge thrower works different. The diference is that the hydra text says: when this unit enters play...is a triggered efect, triggers when the hydra comes into play and all the units in the corresponding zone in that moment suffers the efect, and thats all.

Sorry Rasdsaris, Bery just put a google translation from your blog to clarify the question and i was agree with him in that moment, but i want to be sure of that for the next time we meet.

The veteran slayer works the same way than the grudge thrower     

19-3.jpg

 

Bye.

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Hi,

the "trigger" on Hydra Action, says only "when" the effect kicks in - when it starts working. Hydra effect is changing the game state for the period of time ("unil the end of turn"). The only difference between Grudge Thrower and Hydra, is the timing, when ability starts to work (when Hydra enters play, or whenever you pay for Thrower).

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I think the same as Sherpa and virgo.

When hydra enters play, then the ability is aply, not starts to work.

 

Bye.

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Toxic Hydra:

Action: When this unit enters play, each unit in any corresponding zone gets -2 hit points until the end of the turn.

 

That effect lasts until the end of the round. So each unit in corrseponding zones is affect by that no matter it it enters the zone after the effect is resolved.

The other way round:  If you move an unit out of the zone it will get the hitpoints back because it's no longer in that zone, agree?

 

The effect kind of belongs prior to the zone (and so to the units in it) and not to the already existing units.

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Hi,

the "trigger" on Hydra Action, says only "when" the effect kicks in - when it starts working. Hydra effect is changing the game state for the period of time ("unil the end of turn"). The only difference between Grudge Thrower and Hydra, is the timing, when ability starts to work (when Hydra enters play, or whenever you pay for Thrower).

No the only difference between them is not the timing, Grudge thrower speak about ATTACKING UNIT so it works when unit attacks. The action of Hydra is triggered when it comes into play and then units get -2 HP until the end of the turn. There is a difference between "until the end of the turn each unit get -2 HP" and "each unit get -2 HP until the end of the turn".

 

So new units don't get -2 HP

Edited by Djibi

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This is very hard thing to tell just by looking at the cards...

I don't think the order of the words in sentence matters much in this case. Grudge Thrower works on units that weren't in play when it was triggered. So by this logic Hydra should too.

 

Although it would be good if devs could confirm it.

Edited by Virgo

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All actions (corsair, sorceress...) which reduce HP are "until the end of the turn", it's a way to tell us HP are not definitively reduced. So order of the words are very important because you guys read the sentence as "until the end of the turn each unit get -2HP" instead of the basic "each unit get -2HP until the end of the turn (and no longer)"

Edited by Djibi

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I understand what you are trygin to say Djibi, but as rasdaris said Hydra also works unitl the end of the turn (literally for one turn) buti it also works on new units. The problem is that Hydra doesn't target so when it enters play via Kraken/End Times its effect works on units that will be played into affected zone (so basically during "End Times" it kills every unit in battlefield with 2 hit points and there in no use in playing 2 hit points units into bf during that turn because they will die immediately, also every 3+hp unit is weakend in that zone, the effect of Hydra remains for the rest of the turn).

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If you tell us that hydra works until the end of the turn you could also say that you cant play unit after a troll vomit because it works until end of the round and all units played after will be destroyed. Come on the effect occurs when hydra enters into play that´s all.

Edited by Djibi

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No, troll vomit doesn't work like that :P

Yes, hydra triggers when it enters play, but its effect isn't bound to any "target unit".

Edited by Virgo

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Troll vomit resolves as a tactic, hydra creates constant effect that lasts until the end of the turn (in which it entered play).

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Where did you get that? Troll vomit is a tactic with an action and hydra a unit with an action too, absolutely not a constant effect. If it would have been a constant effect you couldn't read "Action :"

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Conditional Actions (v1.1)

Some actions create constant effects that wait for a specific condition to be met in order for them to resolve. These actions are called Conditional Actions.

Conditional Actions last until the end of the turn or until their condition is met, whichever is first.

 

Hydra's action is not conditional action, but as you you see some Actions create Constants. About the until the end of the turn thing. Look at Demoralise. If you play it on an unit without any power and then the owner of that unit will boost it power that power will still be reduced by 2 although it happens after the resolution of the action (Baby squig gets demoralised in battlefield, waaagh is played later, baby squig has 0 power, because the effect lasts until the end of the turn).

 

Hydra's effect lasts until the end of the turn, it affects whole zone, so even units that later entry that zone are affected.

Edited by Virgo

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Hydra's effect lasts until the end of the turn, it affects whole zone, so even units that later entry that zone are affected.

 

One more time this is not hydra's effect which lasts until the end of the turn.  Anyways let's wait for an official response like we did for GtW and repair the waystones.

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Don't worry Dijbi, sooner or later End Times will get Limit 1 per deck (rather sooner considering first turn usage with Undead capital).

Edited by Virgo

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Hydra's effect lasts until the end of the turn, it affects whole zone, so even units that later entry that zone are affected.

 

One more time this is not hydra's effect which lasts until the end of the turn.  Anyways let's wait for an official response like we did for GtW and repair the waystones.

 

I would have though that we're missing the all important "comma" in the sentence. It says quite clearly that when the Toxic Hyrda comes into play, all units in corresponding zone get -2 HP.

 

The way I read it is that the trigger for the effect is when it comes into play any exisitng units will suffer the -2hp but after that it shouldn't matter beacuase the initial trigger point is not going to happen again. i.e. the hydra won't enter play again but the end of turn effect will apply to all the existing units that were there at the time Hydra entered play.

 

My 2 cents :-)

Edited by Ronin_108

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Up ! Still no answer ?

 

Considering this debate, how would you understand the Action of Forest dragon ? 

 

22-118.jpg

 

According to your vision of Toxic Hydra's Action :

1) You can play charge of the silver helm on him after triggering his Action

2) You have to consider "double" like bloodletters. 1 Action = double ; 2 Actions = triple.

 

=> You don't consider his present power when you trigger his Action, but until the end of the turn, you double (or triple...) the power he can gain or lose.

 

.. And nobody never played him this way, right ?

 

Forgive me for my mistakes, english isn't my native language.  :ph34r:

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"When this unit enters play" is made as a trigger condion, to limit it's usage, i.e that you can't go on and use it whenever it pleases you. The corresponding zone will be affected for the duration of the turn, affecting any units entering the zone that turn.

To make it a bit more logical you can use the Hydra itself as a "real-life" example.

Toxic Hydra comes by your house, fills the house with poison (as it is toxic ;) ), everyone inside dies. But the house is still filled with poison, so new persons entering the house will also suffer a painful death, until the house is cleaned (until the end of the turn).

 

Many cards has the same effect, as mentioned earlier. Don't get mislead by the trigger condion - as long as it is affecting a zone "until the end of the turn" all units in that zone will suffer if they enter that zone before the end of the turn.

Edited by ChemicalWarfare

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