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Kager

midichlorians

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I for one am happy there was no mention or mechanic in the Force chapter for midichlorians. You cant tell me you didnt fear this when you were reading it..

Just alittle humor..

Happy gaming!!

Edited by Kager

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Well, it seems that most Star Wars material "politely ignores" that particular subject.

 

The last EU mention they got was (I believe) in the Death Star novel, where one of the on-station medical staff mentions that it's included in the bloodwork for patients, with the results sent to Imperial Center, but he doesn't know why they want that information or even what it's used for.

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Why would there even be a mechanic for midichlorians, sounds more like a thread to bait people.  Midichlorians aren't the Force, and the only purpose they would serve in any type of gaming mechanic would be to suggest how powerful a persons affinity is to the Force.... but we already have that mechanic, it's the Force die.

 

Yancy

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Well, it seems that most Star Wars material "politely ignores" that particular subject.

 

The last EU mention they got was (I believe) in the Death Star novel, where one of the on-station medical staff mentions that it's included in the bloodwork for patients, with the results sent to Imperial Center, but he doesn't know why they want that information or even what it's used for.

I like that.  For most people, a midiclorian count is as of little importance as a flea count of the neighborhood stray.  Knowing it serves virtually no purpose, unless you have a very good reason for wanting to know.

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The MC count could determine your max force rating. I doubt we will see it but it's possible.

That makes about as much sense from a gameplay standpoint as the racial level limits in AD&D.  Less even, because at least AD&D gave a logical method of determining the limit.  "You have this limit because you chose to be an elf," works better than "Your Midichlorian count is low because Reasons."

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MC could always be addressed indirectly. Maybe PCs could have a max force rating of 6, but Vader would be 7 and Palps would be 9. The reason for these ratings could be MC count but you would not have to say that.

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I'd like to see a whole expansion on Midichlorians. In this version of the game, after you are done creating your super cool character, you must then play the ten year old child version of that character.

ZING!

Edited by DylanRPG

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>>Everyone accepts Force power is related through genetic heritage of their parents

>>Get mad when Lucas calls that genetic heritage midichlorians

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I was one of the people who hated midichlorians when they were introduced in Episode 1. Then I watched Episode 3, where the payoff for that particular bit of lore paid off, and I went "oh... OH! NOW it makes sense. Cool!"

 

It appears the whole midichlorian thing was set up by Lucas as a plot twist about Anakin Skywalker's "father", but it's so subtle that I believe most people never even notice. 

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I stand by the assertion that Lucas wrote in midichlorians as a way to make Star Wars, the Force, and the entire mythos appear relevant to our modern social understanding.

 

Back in the 70's and 80's, people were more open to believing in a mystical Force that existed beyond physical understanding.  These days, people need hard facts and evidence to believe anything exists.

 

Regardless, the Force was way cooler in its original interpretation.  Making it a mere midichlorian count is taking away the tension behind whether or not the hero can overcome the enemy.  I mean... if you have a number on this stuff... it's not hard to imagine who is more powerful.  And then when the more powerful ends up losing... it doesn't make any sense (Obi Wan vs Anakin or Yoda vs Palpatine for instance.)

 

I hope they don't put that garbage in this game.

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I was one of the people who hated midichlorians when they were introduced in Episode 1. Then I watched Episode 3, where the payoff for that particular bit of lore paid off, and I went "oh... OH! NOW it makes sense. Cool!"

 

It appears the whole midichlorian thing was set up by Lucas as a plot twist about Anakin Skywalker's "father", but it's so subtle that I believe most people never even notice. 

 

*Deleted message*

Edited by Raice

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I told my group at the beginning of our campaign that two things were inflexible:

 

1) there are no midichlorians in our version of the SW galaxy.  The force was already explained in the original trilogy and didn't need further pseudo-explanation that shattered the big Mystery of the Force but still left too many unanswered questions.  Of all the stupid decisions Lucas made, this is probably the worst because of its implications.  The whole Han/Greedo thing really only adversely affects one character but still rates a strong #2 (pun intended).

 

2) Ewoks are not and will never be a playable race.  The Ewok Holiday Special is buy one hat lined with ewok fur, get one free.

 

We're also holding only to the Battle of Yavin as a fixed historical fact that shone a beacon of hope for the Rebellion and a clarion warning for the Empire: what happens afterwards is up for grabs and may well be influenced by the PCs in some ways.

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I stand by the assertion that Lucas wrote in midichlorians as a way to make Star Wars, the Force, and the entire mythos appear relevant to our modern social understanding.

 

Back in the 70's and 80's, people were more open to believing in a mystical Force that existed beyond physical understanding.  These days, people need hard facts and evidence to believe anything exists.

 

Regardless, the Force was way cooler in its original interpretation.  Making it a mere midichlorian count is taking away the tension behind whether or not the hero can overcome the enemy.  I mean... if you have a number on this stuff... it's not hard to imagine who is more powerful.  And then when the more powerful ends up losing... it doesn't make any sense (Obi Wan vs Anakin or Yoda vs Palpatine for instance.)

 

I hope they don't put that garbage in this game.

The higher count individual isn't necessarily more powerful. Training comes into play as well. MC count is just potential power.

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I stand by the assertion that Lucas wrote in midichlorians as a way to make Star Wars, the Force, and the entire mythos appear relevant to our modern social understanding.

 

Back in the 70's and 80's, people were more open to believing in a mystical Force that existed beyond physical understanding.  These days, people need hard facts and evidence to believe anything exists.

 

Regardless, the Force was way cooler in its original interpretation.  Making it a mere midichlorian count is taking away the tension behind whether or not the hero can overcome the enemy.  I mean... if you have a number on this stuff... it's not hard to imagine who is more powerful.  And then when the more powerful ends up losing... it doesn't make any sense (Obi Wan vs Anakin or Yoda vs Palpatine for instance.)

 

I hope they don't put that garbage in this game.

 

Not even close, again I have no clue where people get this stuff from.  The midi-chlorians have never been and never were in Lucas' mind... the Force.  They are simply the gateway and served basically four points:

 

1)  Explains, in a tangible way, why Anakin is more powerful and Force sensitive than the other Jedi.  It further reinforces the fact that he is a loner, so even though he's sitting there with his fellow Jedi he knows in the end he's "better" than the rest of them... which of course leads to a whole host of other problems (jealousy, resentment, arrogance).

 

2)  Establishes the point of the line in ROTJ, "the Force runs strong in my family..."  Obviously even then Lucas was thinking that there's something which makes the Skywalker clan special versus your run of the mill Jedi.  (BTW, Yes I'm fully aware of story conversations he had with Lawrence Kasdan in which he states anyone can learn to use the Force, "it's like yoga" was his direct quote.  Doesn't invalidate anything with the introduction of midi-chlorians... they simply qauge your potential).

 

3)  It reinforces one of the central themes of Episode I... symbiotic relations... working together.  So you have this thing in your blood which works with each individual as conduit to the Force, and as Qui-Gon says:

"...we are symbionts with them. Life-forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midi-chlorians,

life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you."

 

Contrast that with two societies, the Naboo and the Gungans who are face with a mutual enemy in the Trade Federation.  They are forced to work together to ensure their mutual survival.  Lucas clarified this in an interview:

 

"Midi-chlorians are a loose depiction of mitochondria, which are necessary components for cells to divide. They probably had something–which will come out someday–to do with the beginnings of life and how one cell decided to become two cells with a little help from this other little creature who came in, without whom life couldn’t exist. And it’s really a way of saying we have hundreds of little creatures who live on us, and without them, we all would die. There wouldn’t be any life. They are necessary for us; we are necessary for them. Using them in the metaphor, saying society is the same way, says we all must get along with each other."

 

4)  Which leads to the final reason for their presence... an explanation for Anakin's "virgin birth."  In Revenge of the Sith Palpatine more than implies that in some fashion he and his master at the time, Darth Plagueis, are responsible for the creation of Anakin.

 

"Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create...life. He had such a knowledge of the Dark Side, he could even keep the ones he cared about...from dying."

 

Whether you agree with his storytelling decisions here or not, there was a reasoning behind them and they are not simply some effort to make the Force more relatable to a modern audience.  

 

Yancy

Edited by Gallandro

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Of course Gallandro, one wonders how truthful Palpatine was being ... but more importantly, George Lucas has stated (for instance on the dvd commentary) that Anakin truly was the chosen one, and that even when he became Darth Vader, he remained the chosen one. It was by destroying the Emperor and himself that he fulfilled the prophecy and brought balance to the Force.

 

This doesn't necessarily mean that what Palpatine said was a lie, but it is important to remember that the prophecy was not a sham.

It's also worth noting that Anakin being born of a virgin is in keeping with many classic mythological stories in which the hero is indeed born of a virgin.

Edited by DylanRPG

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In my campaign, I treat the Original Trilogy as a Highly interpretive version of what really happen put out as Imperial propaganda after the clone wars (minus some key points that public would not know of course like Vader & Anakin connection, secret birth, etc).

 

This allows to me say that Midichlorians are an Imperial invention to explain away the jedi as being special… Also stuff like Order 66 did NOT go down as smooth as the empire would have you believe.

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Not even close, again I have no clue where people get this stuff from.  The midi-chlorians have never been and never were in Lucas' mind... the Force.  They are simply the gateway and served basically four points:

 

Nice summary, that's pretty much how I understood it when the concept was introduced in E1, I have no idea why people objected to it.  If they add it to the game, it's all fine with me, in fact, I hope they do.  The whole concept is centered around symbiosis which is central to the teachings of the Jedi.  The mitochondria model is just the tip of it:  we are learning now that our microflora are essential to being alive...there are more cells in our body that aren't technically "us" than those we call our own.  Or check this out:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/science/how-simple-can-life-get-its-complicated.html?ref=science&_r=0

 

 

Life does not exist in a laboratory vacuum, where scientists can pare away genes to some Platonic purity. Life exists in a tapestry, and the species with the smallest genomes in the world survive only because they are nestled in life’s net.

 

So if Lucas (and FFG) wants a biological model for Force awareness and ability and galaxy-spanning unity, it's just drawing on what we already know of the real world.

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Of course Gallandro, one wonders how truthful Palpatine was being ... but more importantly, George Lucas has stated (for instance on the dvd commentary) that Anakin truly was the chosen one, and that even when he became Darth Vader, he remained the chosen one. It was by destroying the Emperor and himself that he fulfilled the prophecy and brought balance to the Force.

 

This doesn't necessarily mean that what Palpatine said was a lie, but it is important to remember that the prophecy was not a sham.

It's also worth noting that Anakin being born of a virgin is in keeping with many classic mythological stories in which the hero is indeed born of a virgin.

Poor mothers of heroes having to be virgins so their sons can be special.

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Of course Gallandro, one wonders how truthful Palpatine was being ... but more importantly, George Lucas has stated (for instance on the dvd commentary) that Anakin truly was the chosen one, and that even when he became Darth Vader, he remained the chosen one. It was by destroying the Emperor and himself that he fulfilled the prophecy and brought balance to the Force.

I love talking about "The Prophecy".  "A prophecy, which, mis-read, could have been..."

 

Anakin was, is, and dies as the Chosen One.  But what does "bringing balance to the Force" mean?  That's the angle few think about.  I think that Anakin's actions throughout his entire life brought balance to the Force.  

 

1. He is directly responsible for the rise of Palpatine, and the destruction of the Jedi Order.  From the point he decides to let the man live, to the decision to serve him, to becoming the spear-point that personally executes any Jedi the clones didn't kill.  As you all know... the Sith had been a non-power in the galaxy for 1000 years before this happened.  "All Light Side" doesn't exactly equate to balance.  Light cannot exist without the Dark.  There has to be balance.  So Anakin's actions ended a 1000 year imbalance.

 

2. He kills Palpatine and ends the Dark Side domination of the 20 years following Order 66.  So... great, Annie kills the Jedi, and takes their "weight off the scale".  But now it's ALL Dark Side, baby.  The scale tipped in the other direction (for 20 years).  And, thanks to Palpatine (who suffered very few force users of any stripe in the galaxy), there's not a whole bunch of Dark Siders running around either.  So when Anakin kills him, and ends the rule of the Sith, he knocks the Dark Side weight off the scale.

 

3. He sets up his son to be the primary Force presence in the galaxy.  A son who (through Anakin's actions, both directly and indirectly) has been exposed to both the Light side and the Dark side.  He's felt them both, he's called on them both, and both live inside him.  Luke chose to be "a Jedi, like my father before me", but it was a beautiful character choice.  Unlike the staid Jedi before him, who were raised from infancy to stick their head in the sand about the Dark Side, Luke isn't like that.  Both Dark and Light are needed.  But he makes the choice among conflicting ideals.  But those conflicting ideals have to have the same weight.

 

That's what balance means.   ;)

 

[/rant]   :P

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I disagree, Chris, about what bringing balance to the Force means.

This is another area that George Lucas has shed some light, although I can't remember now where I heard/read him say it.

I don't think it's a case of balancing the Light Side with the Dark Side. I've heard that argument before, and it's one I used to have.

But "bringing balance to the Force" actually means triumph of the Light over the Dark Side.

Lucas said that the Dark Side was like a disease that took from the Force without giving back, while the Light Side was selfless. I'm paraphrasing, but basically there was a biological analogy made.

Anecdotally (is this a word?), if the Force is a person, then the Dark Side is a sickness, and the Light Side is good health. So bringing balance to this person would mean getting rid of the sickness. And that's what Anakin did at the end of Return of the Jedi.

I like this way of thinking, because it means that Anakin's fall was a true moral failing, and that his redemption was a true moral victory, and not some cosmic game of checks and balances.

The other aspect of all this which I really do like (whether you subscribe to your idea or my interpretation), is that there was one aspect of his fall which did bring about his redemption, and that was love. Although forbidden to marry and have children, it was the love of his son that saved him in the end, and thereby the galaxy. And I also love, for all the criticisms of the prequels, that Padme's last words were "there is good in him", to be echoed by Luke many years later. Despite the understandable doubts of Obi-wan Kenobi and Yoda, Luke didn't have to kill his father to prevail, and love won out in the end. That's a **** good story.

Edited by DylanRPG

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Of course Gallandro, one wonders how truthful Palpatine was being ... but more importantly, George Lucas has stated (for instance on the dvd commentary) that Anakin truly was the chosen one, and that even when he became Darth Vader, he remained the chosen one. It was by destroying the Emperor and himself that he fulfilled the prophecy and brought balance to the Force.

 

This doesn't necessarily mean that what Palpatine said was a lie, but it is important to remember that the prophecy was not a sham.

It's also worth noting that Anakin being born of a virgin is in keeping with many classic mythological stories in which the hero is indeed born of a virgin.

True, however in the shooting script for ROTS, it was spelled out quite clearly that Palpatine had orchestrated Anakin's creation and does a "Luke, I am your father." on Anakin, but that was ditched during shooting.

 

 

Yancy

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But "bringing balance to the Force" actually means triumph of the Light over the Dark Side.

...

Anecdotally (is this a word?), if the Force is a person, then the Dark Side is a sickness, and the Light Side is good health. So bringing balance to this person would mean getting rid of the sickness. And that's what Anakin did at the end of Return of the Jedi.

 

I like it, makes sense to me.  It does cause problems for the post-E6 EU though:  if Anakin really was the Chosen One to bring balance (i.e.: triumph of the Light), then all the cloned-Emperor garbage, and maybe (hopefully) the Vong garbage becomes impossible.  I hope E7-9 destroys those parts of the EU.

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