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LOR Hexer Class Questions

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To say that "a figure is targeted" means " this figure is occupying a targeted space." Likewise, the phrase "target monster" means "a monster occupying a targeted space."

 

Yes, I understand that, but we talking about a RULES, not about a free conversation between gamers or about flavor texts. Rules are the Laws of the game, and they must be unambiguous and not subject to interpretation!

 

If we put the sign of equivalence between the Target and the Monster (like FFG do in some cases), under the condition that the shape and size of the monsters are variable, will achieve only a Chaos!

 

(Are there actually any cards that say "target monster", or is that just a convenience used by us fans?)

 

Please, judge for yourself. These are exact citations:

 

ACCURSED ARMS: Exhaust this card during your turn to choose 1 hero adjacent to a hexed monster. The chosen hero may immediately perform 1 attack targeting a hexed monster.

 

Plague Cloud: Perform an attack with a Magic weapon. This attack targets each hexed monster in your line of sight and ignores range. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. Before rolling dice for the attack, each monster adjacent to a target monster is hexed.

 

1. Each hexed monster in LOS is a Target.

2. Any monster adjacent to a Target (hexed monsters in LOS) becomes hexed Before dices rolling (I.e. also becomes a target).

3. Range is ignored.

4. That Hero isn't a simple Hexer. Hi is a God and with one successful attack can clear the entire field from any monsters...

Edited by piligrim

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If i remember correctly, FFG had clarified in the FAQ that when targeting a large sized monster, you actually target a space that it occupies that you have LOS to and can make a legitimate attack.

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If i remember correctly, FFG had clarified in the FAQ that when targeting a large sized monster, you actually target a space that it occupies that you have LOS to and can make a legitimate attack.

 

Yes that is correct!

But how do you interpret the phrase "each monster adjacent to a target monster"? And then imagine one dragon on 6 spaces... And another one adjacent to him... And all monsters adjacent to them...

The issue here, does not affect the target, but things related with her. That is something different.

For comparison, in definition for Blast, all is completely clear: " On a Blast attack, all spaces adjacent to the targeted space are also affected by the attack."

 

Now, please imagine little different definition: "On a Blast attack, all spaces adjacent to the targeted monster are also affected by the attack."

 

I just replaced "space" with "monster" and look what happened... 

Additionally, Blast affect figures - Plague cloud affects only the monsters.

I not talk about Fair and Unfair or about Overpowered hero. Let hexer can kill all monsters with one attack - does not matter. If that is possible, Players will kill the Hexer because in this way he will destroy not only the monsters but the whole game.

I just find very unacceptable such bending and blurring of the rules moreover, in a second expansion.

Edited by piligrim

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There is an overlord card called "Uncontrolled Power" that trolls Dazra pretty hard core. With that one card (bouncing it back to my hand with Bloodlust and Dark Ritual) I kept her from EVER setting any hexes on my monsters for the whole quest. There are ways for an OL to keep a very powerful hero like her in check.

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Maybe you mean "Unholy Ritual" (who after clarification gives 2 additional cards)?

 

I'm so curious how the card "Plague cloud" is played in your group?
 

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Some question about hexer:

 

 

Is it possible to hex more monster with ONE attack? (i mean use two surges to hex two monsters) i think that it isnt possible, but at the same time, its rly hard for me to have hexed more then one monster at a time (bcs rest of group always kill it or i use hex to activate some other ability, so its hard to efectively use Plague Cloud). Do u have same problem or can u share some types about how to hex more then one monster easily? (other then "spasm" ability) maybe iam missing something in that mechanic). 

 

Fell comand: May i wait until hexed monster walk some distance to activate this ability or i have to use it directly when it is activate by OL?

 

Apologize for my english and thx for the answers:-)

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Is it possible to hex more monster with ONE attack? (i mean use two surges to hex two monsters) i think that it isnt possible, but at the same time, its rly hard for me to have hexed more then one monster at a time (bcs rest of group always kill it or i use hex to activate some other ability, so its hard to efectively use Plague Cloud). Do u have same problem or can u share some types about how to hex more then one monster easily? (other then "spasm" ability) maybe iam missing something in that mechanic). 

In general, each surge ability can only be activated once per attack. So as a general rule, no. Plague Spasm doesn't allow you to hex another monster, it just is an effect that can be used with already hexed monsters.

 

For spreading your Hexes, your options are Enfeebling Hex (the standard to apply a hex to a monster), Viral Hex (possibly doubling the number of hexed monsters near you), and Plague Cloud (Spreading hexes to adjacent monsters)

 

 

Fell comand: May i wait until hexed monster walk some distance to activate this ability or i have to use it directly when it is activate by OL?

According to RAW, no. The monster is commanded when chosen, before normal activation. After the attack, it activates as normal, so Fel Command can't be used to interrupt the middle of a monster's activation.

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I think you misunderstood my first question though. My fault for not explaining it well. Regarding Internal Rot, I was specifically wondering about the first half of the skill and the wording "Each time a monster becomes hexed...". At first glance it seems to imply: "any time you give a monster a hex token, give that monster two hex tokens instead." but in that case I feel like it would have been worded "Each time a monster is hexed...", or "Each time you hex monster...". Instead, it seems like it should be whenever a non-hexed monster becomes hexed, or when a monster goes from having 0 hex tokens to > 0. In that sense, it would only trigger when you hex a monster who wasn't already hexed.

 

 

I would like to know the answer to this. Not only to clarify that every time monster receives a hex token, Internal Rot gives it one additional token, but also to clarify if Internal Rot affects the number of tokens distributed by other skill cards. For example:

 

Viral Hex is used and there's 2 hexed monsters inside 3 spaces of the hexer. The 2 hex tokens from Viral Hex are placed on one of these monsters, with Internal Rot doubling both tokens, giving the monster in question a total of 5 tokens.

 

Another example would be Internal Rot combined with Plague Cloud. If there's 3 hexed monsters each next to each other, Cloud would distribute 6 tokens with Rot doubling that to 12 tokens. Would those examples be correct?

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If i remember correctly, FFG had clarified in the FAQ that when targeting a large sized monster, you actually target a space that it occupies that you have LOS to and can make a legitimate attack.

 

Yes that is correct!

But how do you interpret the phrase "each monster adjacent to a target monster"? And then imagine one dragon on 6 spaces... And another one adjacent to him... And all monsters adjacent to them...

The issue here, does not affect the target, but things related with her. That is something different.

For comparison, in definition for Blast, all is completely clear: " On a Blast attack, all spaces adjacent to the targeted space are also affected by the attack."

 

Now, please imagine little different definition: "On a Blast attack, all spaces adjacent to the targeted monster are also affected by the attack."

 

I just replaced "space" with "monster" and look what happened... 

Additionally, Blast affect figures - Plague cloud affects only the monsters.

I not talk about Fair and Unfair or about Overpowered hero. Let hexer can kill all monsters with one attack - does not matter. If that is possible, Players will kill the Hexer because in this way he will destroy not only the monsters but the whole game.

I just find very unacceptable such bending and blurring of the rules moreover, in a second expansion.

Exactly why I dislike this game. All this OL and hero OP stuff gets a laugh from me. I wonder with all the complaints with the game favoring OL or Heroes if most are even playing this poorly vague written game properly.

Don't get me wrong the game is we'll imagined and thought of and I want to like it.

Silverhelm likes this

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Viral Hex is used and there's 2 hexed monsters inside 3 spaces of the hexer. The 2 hex tokens from Viral Hex are placed on one of these monsters, with Internal Rot doubling both tokens, giving the monster in question a total of 5 tokens.

 

I'm not 100% sure of this, but I believe that since you are placing both tokens on a single monster, that Internal Rot would only increase that by 1, not double it. It's also possible to interpret this as being hexed twice (once from each token), but it's not how I would play it. I read it such that it is more strategic to spread things out so that you can double the tokens. That said, this is a bit vague, and is probably best to bring up to FFG via the Rules Questions link at the bottom.

 

 

Another example would be Internal Rot combined with Plague Cloud. If there's 3 hexed monsters each next to each other, Cloud would distribute 6 tokens with Rot doubling that to 12 tokens. Would those examples be correct?

 

In this case, Cloud would not distribute 6 tokens, it would distribute 3. Note that it does NOT read "Each targeted monster gives a hex token to each adjacent monster." It reads "Each monster adjacent to a target monster is hexed." In this case, even if they are adjacent to multiple hexed monsters, they are likely only hexed a single time (and given an additional token from Internal Rot). This one I'm fairly certain of, but it may still be a good idea to check in with FFG.

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I received the following e-mail clarification from FFG:

 

Yes, lieutenants are treated as monsters, so indeed Fel Command can be used on a lieutenant.
 
However, it does not allow you to force the monster to attack itself.
 
Thanks,

Justin Kemppainen

Creative Content Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

jkemppainen@fantasyflightgames.com

 

 

OK, with fel command the monster can not attack itself.

But what if it is a shadow dragon ? Can the hexer let the dragon attack an adjacent monster and then trace the fire breath the way that the shadow dragon itself is AFFECTED by this own attack (e.g. in shadow rune finale 1)

 

Do you see any reason why this is not allowed ?

 

An another one:

Does monster under control of the hexer with fel command ignore the shadow ability ?

(Shadow: "A HERO adjacent to this monster that declares an attack must spend 1 surge....")

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1) Since Fire breath says "Starting with the target space, trace a path of 4 spaces in any direction. All figures on this path are affected by this attack. Each figure rolls defense dice separately", I don't see any reason you couldn't do this to make a dragon attack itself. The reason you normally need a special ability to make something attack itself is that attack rules require that you target a space containing an enemy figure, and you're obviously not an enemy figure to yourself. If you're looking at the shadow rune finale specifically, you need to make sure that Gryvorn is considered to be a monster figure , and has the fire breath ability.

 

2) A monster is not a hero, nor does it become a hero just because you're controlling it. "Fel Command" does not say to treat the monster like a hero (unlike Dark Charm, in which the hero is treated like a monster) nor does it say that you (the hero) are performing the attack- the monster is. Therefore, I would say shadow has no effect since it specifically states "when a hero adjacent to this monster declares an attack..."

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Hi Zaltyre,

i totally agree with you in both points!

 

But just for a RAW discussion:

(2) With your argumentation the 'fel command monster' could not attack any other monster. "Fel Command" does not say to treat the monster like anything else. This would mean that the hexer could not use this 'fel command monster' to attack any other monster because they are still no enemy figure. :-)

 

I think it is clear that the intend of "Fel Command" was that "you perform an attack [action(!)] with that monster as if it were one of your heroes this turn. And then maybe the shadow ability could be an issue.

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Rulewise, I think it's one issue to say "you choose who the monster attacks," a separate issue to say "you choose who the monster attacks, and you can also choose to have it attack itself," and a much more substantial issue to say "during this action, treat the monster as a different type of thing" (namely, a hero figure.)

 

For starters, my argument is that any shadow dragon can affect itself, or any other monster, with fire breath- this is not a special case allowed by "Fel Command." The OL chooses the path of spaces, so if you've got 2 heroes on opposite sides of the shadow dragon (let's say H is a hero, D is a dragon, and E is an empty space:)

EEEE

HDDE

EDDH

EDDE

EEEE

 

The dragon could only hit both heroes with fire breath if it targeted one, and then traced the path through itself to the other hero. While intuitively this is weird, it has been ruled that the fire breath path can change direction and go around corners, and through overgrowth- you've just got to be able to count spaces.

 

An argument could be made that since the dragon is under your control, it sees other monsters as enemies- also, if that's not the case, Fel Command is absolutely useless. However, I don't think that necessitates allowing the monster to target itself.

 

However, going that extra step to say that the monster can't target itself "because it's treated as a hero figure" changes everything. The OL can now play OL cards that say "when a hero attacks a monster," the shadow dragon could add surges from heroes that say "when a hero attacks a monster," etc. That's a huge adjustment, and I don't think that can be read into the card. 

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Sorry , I am a bite of confused...

 

1.Will Fel Command use one attack once of this monster per turn ? or extra attack ?

 

2.If I set plot cars like Raided Army , will a monster controled by Fel Command still get bonus from plot card ? 

 

3.Can I say  the process of Plagued Cloud is :

Set Hex token on each monster adjacent monsters with hex token in LoS  > Attack monsters with Hex token in Los ?

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1) No. This attack does not count toward the monster's "1 attack" limit. It is in addition to any actions that monster might perform.

 

2) Yes- if that card is exhausted, the monster would benefit.

 

3) Yes. You first put down hex tokens on any monsters adjacent to hexed monsters, then attack ALL hexed monsters in your line of sight (including the new ones.)

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If a hexed monster was attacked and that attacking hexer discard all hex tokens ,

will he still get pierce 2 from internal rot ?

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If a hexed monster was attacked and that attacking hexer discard all hex tokens ,

will he still get pierce 2 from internal rot ?

Yes, because the attack gains pierce 2 when the monster is targeted (during step 1). At that point, it is hexed.

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