Ten Numb vs. Evade Tokens

[player1478495 5]

We're having a bit of a heated discussion over at Board Game Geek right now...

 

Can a crit result rolled by Ten Numb (assuming all regular hits have been canceled first) be canceled by the defender's evade token?

[dbmeboy 807]

Looks like it to me.  Evade tokens are not defense dice.

[Stormtrooper721 246]

We're having a bit of a heated discussion over at Board Game Geek right now...

 

Can a crit result rolled by Ten Numb (assuming all regular hits have been canceled first) be canceled by the defender's evade token?

 

Looking at the card:

 

 

It seems that it clearly states "defense dice", not evade token, so I'm going to say that an evade token can, yes, cancel one of Ten Numb's crits. This definately needs to be officially FAQed, however, before arguments get any more heated.

[player1478495 5]

Is there somewhere to submit FAQs?  Or does FFG just look through these forums and decide what questions warrant answering?

[nimdabew 156]

I bet if we got 50 people to submit the same question all on the same day, it would make it into the FAQ. When that FAQ comes out is anyone's guess.

[Johdo 343]

I don't see the need for an FAQ on this.  It clearly states on the Pilot card "Defense Dice".  I believe that would imply anytime you roll the green ones vs. Ten's red ones...

 

Using an Evade token is not rolling anything...it just simply adds 1 Evade to the test.

 

When you add to this the fact that you have to negate regular hits before critical hits, i think it works itself out.

[Stormtrooper721 246]

I don't see the need for an FAQ on this.  It clearly states on the Pilot card "Defense Dice".  

 

Your faith in the common sense of humanity is as admirable as it is misplaced.  Seriously, spend more time with us humans. We're really not that reasonable.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Stormtrooper721

[player1478495 5]

Yeah, I agree with you all too.  Dice are dice, and tokens are tokens.  But quite a few over at BGG were in the camp of an evade token merely adding an evade result to your agility dice roll.  And the way the rulebook is written, I could see why they'd come to that conclusion.

[jetsetter 49]

The only way to get rid of the crit is by an evade token....I really don't see the dilema here!?

 

You cancel all hits you can with dice, then if only a crit remains...and you still have an evade token...you get to cancel it. Easy. 

Edited July 9, 2013 by jetsetter

[Johdo 343]

 

I don't see the need for an FAQ on this.  It clearly states on the Pilot card "Defense Dice".  

 

Your faith in the common sense of humanity is as admirable as it is misplaced.  Seriously, spend more time with us humans. We're really not that reasonable.

 

Hehe...actually my faith in the common sense of humanity is pretty low...however, i try to hold my gaming brethren to a higher standard.  

 

I would gladly spend more time with you humans...playing X-Wing...except i can't find too many in my area that play.

[Cptnhalfbeard 680]

I am relieved the folks on the FFG forums have better common sense. I was reading the debate on BGG and it was angrying up the blood how many people felt an evade token would not cancel this crit. Their confusion is that the rules say an evade token yields an evade result. They think it means evade die result, but that's not what it says. Evade die give evade results. Evade tokens give evade results. An evade token is not a die, so it can cancel Ten's crit. Plain and simple.

[Parakitor 5,654]

I agree. I just wanted to add my opinion that with Evade tokens being ignored by Homing Missiles, it's nice to have a good use for them again. Don't get me wrong, the Evade action can be useful, but in my group we've really been focusing on...well, Focus.

[Ken at Sunrise 2,065]

Don't know if we need an FAQ. The rules on page 8, 12 and 14 talk about Evade Token and it clearly isn't dice.

Dice is something very separate though either can cancel a hit or crit.

 

Looks like you can use Evade Token.

[StevenO 2,996]

For anyone calling the card out doesn't having a shield also "cancel out" a critical hit?  I also support the idea that an Evade token should work against the result as it is not a die.

[Buhallin 4,563]

For anyone calling the card out doesn't having a shield also "cancel out" a critical hit?

Not at all.

 

{Hit} and {Critical Hit} results turn into damage.  Damage is resolved by removing a shield token if you have one, or drawing a damage card if you don't.  Results are a step removed from shields.

[Klasmars 34]

Just for clarification. Say i get 2 hits and 1 crit.

I roll 1 evade and have 1 Evade token to spend.

Can i choose to cancel the crit with my evade token?

Or must all hit results be canceled before any crit results can be canceled? 

[CrookedWookie 1,258]

All hit results must be canceled before any crit results.  

Page 12, number 6, last sentence of the second paragraph.

[Klasmars 34]

I just watched that board game show on youtube with Wil Wheaton and he canceled a crit with a evade token before canceling the other hits. I thought that he knew something that i did not.

 

The thing he knew was how to cheat! In front of 299.000 people online!! 

But i saw it!

[Buhallin 4,563]

Yeah.  The TableTop episode was good for exposure for the game, but they got a LOT of stuff wrong.

[CrookedWookie 1,258]

My group actually did that wrong our first couple of games, before I went back and gave the rules a careful re-reading with a little experience under my belt.  I was excited to watch that episode of Tabletop, but they flubbed quite a few things over the course of it, mostly in the order they resolved stuff, they played turns a little loosey-goosey.

[Klasmars 34]

At least 10.000 new players will buy the core game. and at least 10.000 new players will be pissed that the expansions is sold out world wide  

[Swanny 6]

This is more a heads up on what's coming.

The above discussion obviously occurred without the benefit of the most recent FAQ. While Ten Numb is not discussed directly, Auto Blaster which has virtually the same wording "cannot be cancelled by defence dice" is under the heading "Dice Results" and under the card itself. It clearly states that it can't be cancelled by evade tokens. I guess the reasoning is that as per the rules, spending an evade token actually adds an evade result to the defence dice, hence it adds to the defence dice.

I don't like this, and with the upcoming Mangler Cannon, expect to see a lot more of Ten Numb in the future. Shields and plenty of them I think is the best counter for now. I fear I'm going to have to shelve my lovely interceptors. Sob.

[Otacon 889]

Necroing a 2 and a half year old thread, that was indeed lacking the FAQ that dropped 5 months ago that reversed the original ruling on Ten Numb and evade tokens, when we've had several threads discussing Ten Numb's interaction with various cards in the last week. Well played.

 

As for your concern I think you're overblowing it. With just the Mangler, Ten is still a 35 point B-wing, focus fire will kill him just as quick as any other, so I'd hope given how high priority a target and how expensive he'd be that he could do some damage before he goes. He'll be viable but I doubt we'll be seeing Ten storm to the front of the meta.

[Swanny 6]

Necroing a 2 and a half year old thread, that was indeed lacking the FAQ that dropped 5 months ago that reversed the original ruling on Ten Numb and evade tokens, when we've had several threads discussing Ten Numb's interaction with various cards in the last week. Well played.

 

As for your concern I think you're overblowing it. With just the Mangler, Ten is still a 35 point B-wing, focus fire will kill him just as quick as any other, so I'd hope given how high priority a target and how expensive he'd be that he could do some damage before he goes. He'll be viable but I doubt we'll be seeing Ten storm to the front of the meta.

 

Sorry, my intention was not to have a go at the preceeding concensus. My first impression was in fact to agree with it. And I did point out that they did not have the latest FAQ.

Instead my intention was to provide the latest ruling for someone else who was searching for "Ten Numb vs Evade Tokens" (this thread was the first thing that came up on Google for me). Last night I was confronted with someone who claimed you can't use Evade Tokens, and after reading this thread, I had to go back to the FAQ and the Rules to understand why.

All I wanted to do was to share this information and save them from the same process, not to cause any offence. I apologise to anyone who has taken offence.

As for overblowing my concern we have been experimenting with the new upcoming upgrades. I took 3 Sabre Squadron Pilots with Pusht the Limits and Stelath Device (each doing Focus & Evade each turn) + Dark Curse with Stealth Device, Ten Numb was my priority target and I got slaughtered. I went back with 2 Wild Space Fringers with Heavy Laser Cannons + Tarn with R7 and the result was reversed. This is too small a sample to make any claims with confidence, but I was shaken enough to be concerned. It's a safe bet that what ever Ten Numb fires at now will suffer 1 Crit minimum. That's always better to take on a shield rather than a hull. Off the top of my head, I think Imperials have a crew that you can spend to flip a crit down, there's Determination, a droid that can flip Ship ones, Leebo who can choose between 2, and of course good old Chewie. I guess I could swap the stealth devices for Shield Upgrades on the interceptors and Dark Curse could go naked. Maybe that might do it. But I think we are going to see a lot more Mangler cannons out there, especially with Ten Numb, and a shift away from ships with no shields. Time will tell.

[FNG tie pilot 123]

Looking at "Dice results" on page 2 of the FAQ, it appears that evades from evade tokens are treated as dice results. Since Tens ability says dice, then nothing you can do will cancel it. At best you can draw their fire