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Thunderforge

So It's Really $75 to Play?

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Mr flibble with respect I have not once said it was a strike against FF for not having the dice I have stated I would be buying other books in this range. At not time have I been negative about the game or FF.

I was posting my personal view on the subject and thought it odd that a game that needs special dice to be able to play don't supply them with the game.

I'm quite happy to agree to disagree I'm not here to argue but to have constructive discussions

Believing Fantasy Flight has made the wrong choice, made an oversight, and is selling an incomplete game is completely negative. It doesn't have to be part of a larger point, and it can be perfectly reasonable, but it's still negative.
AK_Aramis likes this

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It is also not a complete star wars game.

 

So you are paying for one third of the experience that requires custom dice or an awful lot of grief in order to play. Relying on charts or stickers is ridiculous.

 

FFG need to rethink their decision making processes, particularly as people will have to wait 2 years to play a Jedi...in a Star Wars rpg! And of course the huge amount of errata that is sure to follow given how poor their editing always is.

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The funny thing is that most of us are really happy with the game,dice, and concept. It is really nice that you have taken the time to try to diminish our excitement for our new Star Wars goodies, thanks for that.

If you are not happy with the decisions made by FFG please feel free to protest by not buying their products or commenting on their forums, that'll teach them.

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It is also not a complete star wars game.

 

So you are paying for one third of the experience that requires custom dice or an awful lot of grief in order to play. Relying on charts or stickers is ridiculous.

 

FFG need to rethink their decision making processes, particularly as people will have to wait 2 years to play a Jedi...in a Star Wars rpg! And of course the huge amount of errata that is sure to follow given how poor their editing always is.

You own the book then? If not then you are talking out of your backside... Even if I didn't buy another book in the line I have enough here to keep playing for years!

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If you don't like FFG's games then don't buy them, but why are you crying about it? What do you hope to gain by trolling? I'm not going to post anything more to you, I've got a great game and you've missed out, but that descision was ours to make, nuff said!

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The old Red and Blue box Basic and Expert DnD came with light blue plastic dice, and a white crayon so you could colour in the numbers, so not only was it a rpg, but also a very basic colouring-in project

 

:D

 

So that's what that crayon was for? Well, there's that mystery solved. 

 

I'm perfectly happy with the format FFG have chosen, but there certainly would have been no harm in having a 'Deluxe' set - a cheap, throwaway cardboard sleeve that contains the book, the GM kit, and the dice (for the appropriate price, of course).

 

Only as an option, though. Because if every copy of the book came with dice, you bet we'd have lots of people who bought the Beginner Game crying because they're being 'forced' to buy another set of dice!  :P

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It is also not a complete star wars game.

 

So you are paying for one third of the experience that requires custom dice or an awful lot of grief in order to play. Relying on charts or stickers is ridiculous.

 

FFG need to rethink their decision making processes, particularly as people will have to wait 2 years to play a Jedi...in a Star Wars rpg! And of course the huge amount of errata that is sure to follow given how poor their editing always is.

This isn't "one third of the experience."  It is the first episode of a three-part RPG book series system.  Do you complain when you go to the first movie in a trilogy and you don't get the other two right then and there because they haven't finished them yet?

 

RPG systems are *ALWAYS* expensive because they are meant to be bought over long periods of time or between multiple people in one group.

 

And you *CAN* play a force user or a Jedi in this system.  You can't play an ultra-powerful Jedi Master without homebrewing some extra rules or adding extra forcepowers, but I think that's entirely reasonable.  Just because they don't have the superdeluxe jedi book out yet does NOT mean you should not let people play force sensitives.  The option is there, and the system for it is very promising.  I personally can't wait to see what else we get for force sensitives as we go.  Rather than being negative and saying "GOD WHY CAN'T I BE THIS" you should instead say "Cool, look at all the stuff I can play now, and the more stuff that I can be later when they finish it!"

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Haters gonna hate. My shelf is packed with FFG stuff that proves I can trust them. I'm happy knowing my buying decision is sound.

So that's what that crayon was for? Well, there's that mystery solved.

 I ate mine.

Ralph Wiggum: "I don't have a red crayon."

Mrs. Hoover: "Why not?"

Ralph Wiggum: "I ate it."

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The fact that the jedi don't take centre stage in this version of star wars is one of the main thins that drew me to the game in the first place.

 

I've played a bit of Saga star wars and although I like it I found the main stars in the group were the jedi and the other PCs became supporting actors in the adventure.

 

With only a basic force user / jedi class to choose to my way of thinking gives the game a level playing field for all PCs.

 

You all know my views on the dice so I won't harp on but I have no problem with other core books being produced over time, christ I've got most of the books in all five 40K ranges so that part isn't an issue and as long as the character balance is kept and all careers get an even billing this will be a great game to play over a long period.

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I will admit to some sticker shock when I saw what the price for the book was gonna be. But when you tally up that each sourcebook is both players handbook and dm guide in One, and just how much you get, it seems worth it. And the incidentals....dice, dm screen or kit are things you would eventually buy amyway, its not too bad for a hobby you enjoy. If I was not broke and broke I'd be all about picking these items up. Do research and try to find a good deal. Me, I like going to a store and buying this stuff to have in hand.....I May end up trying to trade in some old stuff to do that.

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You could always make your own dice. I did not want to use the stickers they offered during beta so I made my own.

 

The "Good dice" all had black symbols, the "Bad dice" all had red

Successes were plus signs (+) and Failures were minus signs (-)

Advantages were Circles, Disadvantages were triangles

Triumphs and Despairs were two symbols on top of each other (see photo near top center).

 

SW_Dice.jpg

Mark It Zero and 5sola like this

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Regarding the pricing of the book I think there are some things to consider:

 

1. Full Color on Nice Paper

2. Excellent artwork

3. Lots of pages

4. Well documented game.

5. A well-tested novel dice mechanic

6. It is a licensed product.

 

All these cost $$.

 

Also, comparing an RPG to an Boardgame is unfair since there generally is nowhere near the expense in development and making of the game...that is why so many companies are going to board, and especially card, games..Much better margins and much less money tied up in inventory.  

 

While I would probably have been happy with a $25 PDF... that ain't a happenin! So ,while I spent more than I would have liked, it is easy to appreciate the amount of man-hours put into creating this work.

 

While I can understand people not being happy with the lack of Jedi material....consider the effect on the book if one carved out the needed page count to make room for all that Jedi stuff? Personally, I think the book would have suffered significantly if that would have happened. Isn't it much better to get a fully dedicated book to the Jedi? When you finally get to go Jedi, it will be built on top of a system that has been thoroughly play-tested. 

 

I think starting out basic and working out in complexity is a good idea. Also, not everybody will necessarily be buying all the books. While it is possible that I may....most likely this is where I will stay. 

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Compared to the industry standard, $60 for a 400 page, full-color book is a great price. There are a lot of $40–$50, 286 pagers out there. Even considering the per-page price break you get for larger books, it's a value. They must be producing a metric ton of these (from RPG volume standards) to have the price where it is. 

 

We are getting a lot of material for the money.

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there is other ways to get the stuff like what I do is I look around to see if I have anything that I am not using anymore like old games just collecting dust that I can trade with Noble Knight Games as they sell everything old and new and is willing to trade old stuff for new stuff and I highly recommend them since the owner is good with trade offers.

 

Miniature Market is buying Miniatures that you can get store credit for their merchandise as well. I also recommend them as well since they are cheaper than the FLG which to me they are my local FLG since they are not that far from my work. Bad thing is you have to have at least $50 in Miniatures for a sale which I unfortunate do not have with my D and D miniatures.

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No...this game is free to play.  You'll probably want your own dice though. A player doesn't ever really need their own rulebook.  Read a fellow player's and your GM will always have everything the part needs. 

 

What was it Robert Heinleain said in the Moon is a Harsh Mistress: TANSTAAFL

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For me its not the price that annoyed me, and before anyone says it was well known that the dice came separately, it is the fact the dice, which are a major element to the game, are not sold with the rule book.

 

Don't get me wrong I love the game I think the production values are fantastic and I will be buying more of the books when they come out.

 

It is the fact that a game that hangs its whole mechanics on a special set of dice doesn't have a starter set as part of it. People round the table will buy there own sets as time goes by so there is a need for them to be sold separately but to not include a set with the rules just seems a bit off centre to me.

 

Its like spending £20,000 on a car then having to spend an extra £5,000 to get the engine. The rules rely on the dice to make it work without them the book is next to useless. OK I understand there are tables in the book that let you convert using normal dice or you can download an APP but that to me is a fudge and a copout.

 

No, it's like spending $20k on a car, and spending $5k on gas over the lifetime of that car.  In otherwords, it's nothing even remotely unusual.

 

Yes, it's something to factor in when you make a decision to buy, but its not like they left out a crucial piece that you can't play the game without.  (Remember, the rule book has conversion charts for 'normal' polyhedral dice on page 12.)

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If the dice were packaged in, it would cost $75. (Maybe even more thanks to the extra packaging necessary to ship each one as a single unit.)

So...I fail to see what all this huffing and puffing is about. See consumers make the mistaken assumption that if they pack an accessory in with a product, that it won't kick the price up a notch, but it will. Nothing included in a package is free, someone somewhere crunches the numbers and decides on price that will turn a profit.

So, do you want a $75 dollar purchase for a seperate book ($60) and package of dice ($15), or the $80 option that includes a nice (but ultimately useless) box/slipcover with more art, which is designed to safely transport a book and the accompanying set of dice?

Edited by Mark It Zero

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If the dice were packaged in, it would cost $75. (Maybe even more thanks to the extra packaging necessary to ship each one as a single unit.)

So...I fail to see what all this huffing and puffing is about. See consumers make the mistaken assumption that if they pack an accessory in with a product, that it won't kick the price up a notch, but it will. Nothing included in a package is free, someone somewhere crunches the numbers and decides on price that will turn a profit.

So, do you want a $75 dollar purchase for a seperate book and package of dice, or the $80 option that includes a nice box/slipcover with more art, which is designed to safely transport a book and the accompanying set of dice?

The other problem is how to distribute a book WITH the dice. If it needs to be in a boxed...that adds extra costs.

Mark It Zero likes this

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And for those of us who have already bought the EotE Beginner set, we may not want another set of dice.

That's crazy talk! Moar dices! :P Though a solid point none the less.

The other problem is how to distribute a book WITH the dice. If it needs to be in a boxed...that adds extra costs.

Exactly what I was getting at although my mini rant was a little poorly worded so I tweaked it a little for clarity.

Truthfully they would end up about the same in cost, maybe a buck or two different, because the dice packaging has a cost too even when seperate. However, the whole package is $75, together or seperate, of that you can be sure. :)

Edited by Mark It Zero
bandersnee likes this

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Been playtesting it since before the Beta, and even now, with the full core book on my desk... I don't have any of the special dice, I've never needed them. I might get some, because I love collecting dice, but the game has no intrinsic need for them.

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