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Bjorn Rockfist

I was right about the PS 7 TIE Bomber pilot

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So what would his ability be?   According to the article he is good at fleeing, I mean evacuating.  So maybe he can exit off the board and not count as being destroyed.

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On the wiki said that his Bomber has an advanced targeting system... so maybe something related wit target lock new rules?

If they wanted that, then a system upgrade slot. Problem solved.

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On the wiki said that his Bomber has an advanced targeting system... so maybe something related wit target lock new rules?

If they wanted that, then a system upgrade slot. Problem solved.

Maybe his Pilot Ability will be something along the lines of "Dead Eye" where you can focus instead of target lock. Or maybe not need a target lock to fire. Or...maybe ignore all the range restrictions from torps and missiles..?

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maybe ignore all the range restrictions from torps and missiles..?

 

Way too overpowered. I would load him up with cluster missiles and adv torps with the PS shuttle and just nuke a ship all day long. No fun.

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maybe ignore all the range restrictions from torps and missiles..?

Way too overpowered. I would load him up with cluster missiles and adv torps with the PS shuttle and just nuke a ship all day long. No fun.

Yes, but also an expensive loss..

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maybe ignore all the range restrictions from torps and missiles..?

Way too overpowered. I would load him up with cluster missiles and adv torps with the PS shuttle and just nuke a ship all day long. No fun.

I don't suppose you'd like to try again. I win!

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He doesn't ignore range restrictions (ie. fire at any range including clear across the board) but being able to shift a long range secondary in for close work and a short range secondary out makes it pretty interesting.  Getting nailed by an Advanced Torpedo at range two...ouch.  Get close enough he can't fire that Assault Missile at use...  not going to work.

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Get close enough he can't fire that Assault Missile at use...  not going to work.

Well, he may be ABLE to fire the Assault Missile at Range 1, but that doesn't make it a good idea... :)

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Get close enough he can't fire that Assault Missile at use...  not going to work.

Well, he may be ABLE to fire the Assault Missile at Range 1, but that doesn't make it a good idea... :)

 

Hey, if firing that Assault Missile at point blank range happens to deal a point of damage to my ship but also hit a half dozen enemy ships at the same time I'd consider that a VERY successful attack.

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That's what I meant by "ignore range restrictions". Not that it can fire anywhere on the table, but has to at least be in range 3 to fire a range 1-2 missile and visa-versa.

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The thing about "ignoring range restrictions" is that you have the ST-321 card which allows you to do just that when it comes to acquiring target locks.  

 

Eventually the game will probably get something that can shoot clear across the board but Wave 3 in not that time.

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The thing about "ignoring range restrictions" is that you have the ST-321 card which allows you to do just that when it comes to acquiring target locks.  

 

Eventually the game will probably get something that can shoot clear across the board but Wave 3 in not that time.

 

Long Range Missiles, I'm guessing. Attack: (Target Lock) - Attack any opposing ship in your forward firing arc. 3 damage dice.

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The thing about "ignoring range restrictions" is that you have the ST-321 card which allows you to do just that when it comes to acquiring target locks.  

 

Eventually the game will probably get something that can shoot clear across the board but Wave 3 in not that time.

 

Long Range Missiles, I'm guessing. Attack: (Target Lock) - Attack any opposing ship in your forward firing arc. 3 damage dice.

 

No way.

 

Target locking from unlimited range helps fix a problem wtih secondary weapons - you lock at Range 3, and then you're at Range 1 and they can't fire.  It also helps fix the problem that 4 dice wtihout focus is about the same as 3 with focus, so unless you can double up the actions, missiles are wasted points for one-shot weapons that don't actually improve anything.

 

But being able to attack from all the way across the board, with such a huge firing arc your opponent literally cannot avoid the shot?  Stacking those would mean 3-4 attacks, probably resulting in a dead ship the opponent can respond.  One of the truisms of CCG-like games is that the only solution to speed is more speed.  The only possible counter to that would be other weapons that can respond from that range.

 

<shudder>  Such a weapon would absolutely destroy the game.

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Not if the price is high enough that it may not be worth the gamble. Would you take that weapon if it cost 4 points? Probably. How about 5?  6?

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Eventually the game will probably get something that can shoot clear across the board but Wave 3 in not that time.

 

Long Range Missiles, I'm guessing. Attack: (Target Lock) - Attack any opposing ship in your forward firing arc. 3 damage dice.

 

 

Something like that although getting a Target Lock to shoot beyond range 3 may be challenging unless you had help of course.  Pricing could be tricky but one should keep in mind there aren't any fancy dice tricks involved her so its these dice against the target's Defense Dice and possibly Evasion/Focus tokens.  At 4 points it could be useful, at 6 I'm not so sure.

 

A key restriction to this is the Target Lock (which would be "spent" to fire this missile but that should be a given) as it would do nothing to increase the range the lock could be obtained unless someone hands it to you.

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Not if the price is high enough that it may not be worth the gamble. Would you take that weapon if it cost 4 points? Probably. How about 5?  6?

Yes.  Yes.  And Yes.

 

I might very well take them at 8 points.  Three such weapons would have a 42% chance of killing an X-wing.  Another 45% of the time it would strip the shields and leave it with either 2 or 1 hull left.  And those odds are based solely on hits - factoring criticals into the mix will do nothing but increase them.

 

X-wings run from 21-29 points.  3 of them with about a 50/50 chance to kill, and almost guaranteed to tear it up?  That's worth the gamble at 8 points, which means they'd probably need to be closer to 10.  What's more, they'd be almost impossible to avoid - at that range, the wedge for the firing arc would cover almost the entire board.

 

Honestly, I'm not even sure why anyone would want them.  It sounds like a hand of god weapon that's completely un-fun and does nothing but take away from the actual game of X-wing.  You might as well at "Capital Ship Support: Before the game starts, roll 6 attack dice and allocate the damage to your opponent's ships as you see fit."

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Not if the price is high enough that it may not be worth the gamble. Would you take that weapon if it cost 4 points? Probably. How about 5?  6?

Yes.  Yes.  And Yes.

 

I might very well take them at 8 points.  Three such weapons would have a 42% chance of killing an X-wing.  Another 45% of the time it would strip the shields and leave it with either 2 or 1 hull left.  And those odds are based solely on hits - factoring criticals into the mix will do nothing but increase them.

 

X-wings run from 21-29 points.  3 of them with about a 50/50 chance to kill, and almost guaranteed to tear it up?  That's worth the gamble at 8 points, which means they'd probably need to be closer to 10.  What's more, they'd be almost impossible to avoid - at that range, the wedge for the firing arc would cover almost the entire board.

 

Honestly, I'm not even sure why anyone would want them.  It sounds like a hand of god weapon that's completely un-fun and does nothing but take away from the actual game of X-wing.  You might as well at "Capital Ship Support: Before the game starts, roll 6 attack dice and allocate the damage to your opponent's ships as you see fit."

 

I think the cost of a bomber with such an expensive long range missile would make it so that it wouldn't be that devastating. A schimtar bomber with a 6 point long range missile would cost 22 points. 3 of them that would be needed to have the statistical chance to destroy an x-wing as you describe (42% chance) would cost 66 pts.

 

So lets say someone does try this tactic  and manages to destroy or severely damage an x-wing. Ok, that stinks. But all that you have left  in this list is room for more missiles or torps for your bombers or a couple of academy pilots or something. At most the imp player could have a 5 ship build with these three bombers. And once they spend their payload they are sub par fighters that can't maneuver well (at least as far as we can anticipate). I think even a weakened rebel squad has a decent chance against 3 bombers and one or two other ships. And of course, A-wings and yts can take missiles too, so rebs could employ the same tactic to a certain degree to even the playing field and soften up those bombers before they get in range for standard attacks. And i don't know if your cited statistics include the fact that the defending pilot could use a focus to increase their odds of dodging the missile

I'm kind of sick of the first round of play having all my ships move forward and do nothing. It would be fun to have the option to lob a shot or two across the board before we really mix it up.

As far as the need to have a target lock to shoot a long range missile, it could say spend your focus token to fire this weapon. Problem solved. It would be thematic in the sense of "I'm out of range for a target lock, but if i focus hard enough maybe i can land a lucky shot with this long range missile." Plus focus couldn't then be used to make this missile too devastating.

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With this hypothetical long range missile you can't forget the Target Lock requirement that was mentioned.  Perhaps I'm just dense but it seem to me that getting target lock beyond range three against a single ship by three different ships is currently beyond anyone's reach.  Now I guess the long range missile would need something to stop Determination from simply allowing a ship to focus and fire but by the time you could get those three target locks an X-Wing should have little trouble getting within range of Bombers.

 

In some ways the long range missile we're discussing could be a better "second pass" weapon assuming you can blow by the enemy the first pass and then turn around on them after getting out of range.

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I think the cost of a bomber with such an expensive long range missile would make it so that it wouldn't be that devastating. A schimtar bomber with a 6 point long range missile would cost 22 points. 3 of them that would be needed to have the statistical chance to destroy an x-wing as you describe (42% chance) would cost 66 pts.

 

So lets say someone does try this tactic  and manages to destroy or severely damage an x-wing. Ok, that stinks. But all that you have left  in this list is room for more missiles or torps for your bombers or a couple of academy pilots or something. At most the imp player could have a 5 ship build with these three bombers. And once they spend their payload they are sub par fighters that can't maneuver well (at least as far as we can anticipate). I think even a weakened rebel squad has a decent chance against 3 bombers and one or two other ships.

...

I'm kind of sick of the first round of play having all my ships move forward and do nothing. It would be fun to have the option to lob a shot or two across the board before we really mix it up.

The Firespray can also carry missiles.  Considering the hypothetical:

 

Bounty Hunter + UberMissile + Recon Specialist = 42

Scimitar + UberMissile = 22

Scimitar + UberMissile = 22

Academy Pilot = 12

2 points left over.

 

So you can kill or cripple Wedge on the first run, or drop a major number of hits on 2-3 TIEs depending on how lucky your rolls are.  Just going by raw points, you're at least +5.  What's more, you've got 25 total hull/shields, and your opponent's down their heaviest offensive threat.  All on the first turn of the game, before a shot is ever fired.  I think it's a game-breaking idea, and a very bad one that we really don't need.  Every CCG-style game that I've ever seen add speed has collapsed, because the only answer to speed is more speed.

 

For your last - if you think the only thing that can happen on the first turn is "Move forward and do nothing", I can't help you.  Whether I actually roll any dice or not, I assure you, every ship I've got is doing something that first turn.

 

@StevenO: I'm assuming this UberMissile wouldn't need a target lock to fire.  Otherwise, it's pretty much pointless - the use profile would be to carry it, wait until you're in Range 3, lock, and then wait until you move back out of Range 3?  That doesn't actually happen all that often, in my experience, and if you just lock and fire it provides nothing over other missiles.

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If you added a weapon that could be fired across the board without restriction it will either cost a LOT and/or it will give the target added defenses of some kind.

 

I'll also point out the "across the board" target lock will be possible using the Imperial Shuttle.  Requiring a TL would make it a slow and costly proposition to use this long range missile and mostly prevent the abuse you are so worried about while still introducing the concept.

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For your last - if you think the only thing that can happen on the first turn is "Move forward and do nothing", I can't help you.  Whether I actually roll any dice or not, I assure you, every ship I've got is doing something that first turn.

 

Ok sure. Obviously the first round is where you set up your strategy for the initial pass. Straight down the middle, pincer attack, split your ships, keep them together, and a lot of other decisions. I'm not saying the first round is useless as it is. Its just a little boring IMO sometimes. I move all my ships, everybody takes a focus or an evade, or boost. Then I clear all those tokens off the board and do it over again. Unless of course both players do a 5 manuever right at each other, then maybe we will take a shot or 2.  A long range missile of some sort would add a little more excitement to that first round. It would make my decision to take a focus or an evade on that first round a bit more meaningful.

 

And I'm also not saying that the ideas  offered in this thread are the best ways to make a Long Range weapon work. What if this weapon when fired allows the targeted ship to increase his agility by 1 when defending during this attack? How about a 3 point weapon that only does 2 attack? Not as dangerous or expensive and reflects that a weapon fired from such a distance would be harder to be effective with, but still has a shot to do some damage. How about you can fire this weapon only if you have another ship with a target lock in range of the targeted ship. Said ship spends his target lock to allow the bomber to launch this long range weapon. Stuff like that happened all the time in the EU (especially X-wing Books).

 

I think it is a doable concept and doesn't have to be the uber-gamebreaking-hand-of-god-weapon that you are worried about. I trust that if FFG did something like this, they could do it without ruining the game i love so much.

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For your last - if you think the only thing that can happen on the first turn is "Move forward and do nothing", I can't help you.  Whether I actually roll any dice or not, I assure you, every ship I've got is doing something that first turn.

 

Ok sure. Obviously the first round is where you set up your strategy for the initial pass. Straight down the middle, pincer attack, split your ships, keep them together, and a lot of other decisions. I'm not saying the first round is useless as it is. Its just a little boring IMO sometimes. I move all my ships, everybody takes a focus or an evade, or boost. Then I clear all those tokens off the board and do it over again. Unless of course both players do a 5 manuever right at each other, then maybe we will take a shot or 2.  A long range missile of some sort would add a little more excitement to that first round. It would make my decision to take a focus or an evade on that first round a bit more meaningful.

 

And I'm also not saying that the ideas  offered in this thread are the best ways to make a Long Range weapon work. What if this weapon when fired allows the targeted ship to increase his agility by 1 when defending during this attack? How about a 3 point weapon that only does 2 attack? Not as dangerous or expensive and reflects that a weapon fired from such a distance would be harder to be effective with, but still has a shot to do some damage. How about you can fire this weapon only if you have another ship with a target lock in range of the targeted ship. Said ship spends his target lock to allow the bomber to launch this long range weapon. Stuff like that happened all the time in the EU (especially X-wing Books).

 

I think it is a doable concept and doesn't have to be the uber-gamebreaking-hand-of-god-weapon that you are worried about. I trust that if FFG did something like this, they could do it without ruining the game i love so much.

 

You do realize that your ships do not have to be pointed forwards right? do a hard turn to the sides, start off the battle with your ships facing the sides and speed off into the corner before turning into the battlefield, etcetc

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You do realize that your ships do not have to be pointed forwards right? do a hard turn to the sides, start off the battle with your ships facing the sides and speed off into the corner before turning into the battlefield, etcetc

 

Yes i realize that. Which is why I said "and a lot of other decisions".There are lots of different strategies for set up and first round of play. My post was more about how a long range weapon (if done well) could make for even more possible strategies and add another aspect to the game.

But in all seriousness thank you for making sure i knew that. Honestly i don't play that way very often (ship facing the side) because i feel it telegraphs my moves a little too much. If i set my ship up facing the right edge of the board, my opponent knows my ship is going to be making a left turn somewhere in the immediate future. If i set the ship up straight or even at an angle, i could be going straight, banking or turning either direction. Personally i like that option a little bit more.

Edited by jedi moose

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