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reedhackman

Tyrion/Clansmen and Valar

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I was playing a game earlier tonight and I have a few questions about whether or not my opponent and I played it correctly. The situation is as follows:

I have an Alannys Greyjoy (ODG) and I play Valar Morghulis. My opponent has Tyrion Lannister (LotR), Timmet, and a bunch of other clansman characters. The way we played it is that, although I cancelled Tyrion's save using my Alannys (the kneel a clansman to save effect), he was able to save Tyrion by using a separate clansman to pay the cost of the same effect. Also, we played it that the clansmen that knelt to save Tyrion then became cannot be killed because of Timmet.

My 2 questions are as follows:

1) Can Tyrion use the same ability by using different characters to pay the cost?

2) Do the clansmen that were knelt to save Tyrion become cannot be killed, or are they in moribund because they were killed at the same time as Tyrion?

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reedhackman said:

I was playing a game earlier tonight and I have a few questions about whether or not my opponent and I played it correctly. The situation is as follows:

I have an Alannys Greyjoy (ODG) and I play Valar Morghulis. My opponent has Tyrion Lannister (LotR), Timmet, and a bunch of other clansman characters. The way we played it is that, although I cancelled Tyrion's save using my Alannys (the kneel a clansman to save effect), he was able to save Tyrion by using a separate clansman to pay the cost of the same effect. Also, we played it that the clansmen that knelt to save Tyrion then became cannot be killed because of Timmet.

My 2 questions are as follows:

1) Can Tyrion use the same ability by using different characters to pay the cost?

2) Do the clansmen that were knelt to save Tyrion become cannot be killed, or are they in moribund because they were killed at the same time as Tyrion?

you played it correctly as far as I know.

1) you can only use the same save once per character (i.e. if someone cancels your first iron cliffs discard, you can't discard the second gold for the same character), however, in this instance, kneeling a second clansman is not considered using the same save twice because it is a different character being knelt to attempt to save. (or at least this is how my meta has been playing it for ages. might be wrong)

2) if they were knelt during the save/cancel step, then they become "cannot be killed," and, essentially change from moribund:dead pile to moribund:null, and are not killed… as long as Timmet is out.

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1) You got that one wrong. Paying the cost with a different Clansman character doesn't make it a distinct save ability, it's still Tyrion's response. You could however attempt to use a different save, like a duplicate (note that each duplicate provides the main card with a distinct save response). You also cannot use the second gold token to attempt to save the same character from the same effect, because it is the same response (The Iron Cliffs' ability) and the same trigger.

2) You got that one right. The save/cancel step happens before resolution, so the knelt Clansman characters are not yet moribund.

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in a similiar vein, if someone plays Valar can i use Vale Scavenger or Tyrion's thug to have clansman knelt and thus be saved from Valar how about painted dogs.  Could I use their ability to save them from Valar, provided of course Timmit is in play.  Or do they have to be knelt before Valar is revealed to be saved.

Edited by Venters

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First, Khudzlin is entirely correct; you cannot trigger Tyrion's save effect again, even if you are kneeling another clansmen.

 

As for your folllow up question: They have to be knelt before Valar resolves (but not before it is revealed). This means that either they must be knelt before Valar is revealed, OR they must be knelt in step II (save/cancel responses) - and there are very very few effects that do this. The most common and straightforward, as was mentioned earlier, is Tyrion's save effect.

 

Both Tyrion's Thug and Vale Scavenger are "any phase" abilities; they could be triggered before Valar is revealed, but there's no opportunity to use them again until the player action window after all plots have resolved, and all moribund characters have left play.

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