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miho

Various questions

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1. Fear:

- Do Space Marines suffer any other fear effects than described in the "and they shall know no fear…"-Part?

- Must Space Mainres take a Fear Test, or do they suffer the effects described in the "and they shall know no fear…"-Part automatically?

- If they must take a test, must every battlebrother take a test when they are confronted with a fear causing enemy?

2. Signature Wargear, Craftsmanship modifiers and Standart Issue Wargear:

For example,  a master crafted forcesword woul cost 50 rep. The Requisition limit for Signature Wargear (Master) is 40. For a libarian a forcesword is standart issue wargear. Does he have to pay 50 rep or only 25 for the master crafted upgrade?  Is it possible to gain a master crafted forcesword with Signature Wargear (Master)?

3. Failing Tests

Maybe a stupid question :)  For example, a Weapon Skill Test… some characters of my party have with modifiers easily over a 100 WS against some enemys…. do they just always hit and parry? Or  is there a roll value that always fails? ( Like 96-100 for a BS Test or 91-100 for a Fokus Test )

Any advice would be greatly appreciated :) And sorry for my bad english…

 

 

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miho said:

1. Fear:

- Do Space Marines suffer any other fear effects than described in the "and they shall know no fear…"-Part?

Just the penalty to Willpower of -10% per point of Fear Rating, which applies to any WP tests taken while Fear is in effect (such as Pinning tests).

miho said:

- Must Space Mainres take a Fear Test, or do they suffer the effects described in the "and they shall know no fear…"-Part automatically?

They still roll for the test; if passed they have no penalties.

miho said:

- If they must take a test, must every battlebrother take a test when they are confronted with a fear causing enemy?

Everyone with line-of-sight to the source of Fear must test.

miho said:

2. Signature Wargear, Craftsmanship modifiers and Standart Issue Wargear:

For example,  a master crafted forcesword woul cost 50 rep. The Requisition limit for Signature Wargear (Master) is 40. For a libarian a forcesword is standart issue wargear. Does he have to pay 50 rep or only 25 for the master crafted upgrade?  Is it possible to gain a master crafted forcesword with Signature Wargear (Master)?

I play it that they just pay for the upgrade, but that's basically a House Rule.

 

miho said:

3. Failing Tests

Maybe a stupid question :)  For example, a Weapon Skill Test… some characters of my party have with modifiers easily over a 100 WS against some enemys…. do they just always hit and parry? Or  is there a roll value that always fails? ( Like 96-100 for a BS Test or 91-100 for a Fokus Test )

Any advice would be greatly appreciated :) And sorry for my bad english…

Don't forget that the maximum modifiers to a test are +60 in combat and +30 for non-combat tests. Beyond that, there is a popular House Rule that a roll of 96+ is always a failure.

 

Hope that helps.

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Thanks, that helps! :) I have somthing more, sorry ;)

 

Fear again:

In Squadmode, when mutliple battlebrothers fail their test,  has the killteam leader to take a leadership test for every fail? Suffers the kill team Cohesion Damage for everytime the killteam leader fails a test? Or only once?

Do u have to take a fear test every round? Or only when you see the enemy for the first time?

 

and +30 for non-combat tests

Hmm, i cant find that in the book :) Any idea where i have to look?

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Another question:

Lets assume the kill team gets seperated :) One part with 2 Members, the other part with 3 Members.  The kill team leader is in the part with 3 Members.
Both Parts are in squad mode.  The 2 Members Part encouters an enemy with fear and fails the fear test.  Who does the leadership test? Still the kill team leader, even if he isn't in the same "squad", maybe miles away?

 

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Iff the Battle-Brother is in SOLO MODE, he automatically takes a penalty to all Willpower tests (excluding Psychic Power Tests), there is no roll to negate this, the penalty is automatic and lasts until the creature is destroyed or retreats. The penalty amount is found on Table 9-6 of pg 277. If the Battle-Brother is in SQUAD MODE, then the kill-team suffers a point of Cohesion Damage for every Degree of Fear the creature possesses unless the Kill-Team Leader passes a Willpower Test. It also says it only occurs once per encounter. 

If (for some crazy reason) your players have split up, then I would say that the second group must have a "Second in Command," (much like the Second-in-Command Deed in Rites of Battle). Then, roll the tests for them separately. However, they should both (obviously) still be using points from the same Cohesion pool.

"The maximum total bonus that can be applied to a test is +60. Conversely, the maximum total penalty that can be applied to a test is –60." (pg 244)
 
A 96-100 roll without any modifications, always results in a weapon jam. On the other hand, I can't find anything saying that it is an automatic miss in melee (which is where the house rule part probably comes in). I would employ that house rule just to keep melee and range on even terms.

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1: Space maries NEVER, EVER take a fear test.

When a marine in SOLO MODE is affected by a creature with fear, that marine suffers an AUTOMATIC WP penalty equal to 10 x the creature's fear rating. Fear 1 = -10WP, fear 2 = -20WP, etc.

When a marine is in SQUAD MODE, he does NOT suffer any WP penalty.
HOWEVER
When the kill-team is affected by a character with fear the team leader MUST take a WP test (this is not a fear test, fearless does not stop it) with a penalty identical to its normal fear check penalty. I.e. Fear 1 = +0, Fear 2 = -10, etc. If the team leader fails this WP test, the team looses cohesion equal to the fear rating of the offending character. As normal, if the teams cohesion runs out ( 0 cohesion) then all the kill-team members revert to solo mode, and the normal WP penalty applies immediately.

I would rule: This applies unless EVERY kill-team member is fearless. If EVERY kill-team member is fearless, then there is no need for the leader to take a WP test. If even 1 member is not fearless though, the leader must take the test.

When dealing with fear, normally marines are only affected once per encounter based off of the highest fear rating present. If another fear causing character is added to the encounter with a higher fear rating than previously tested then the team must modify its penalties and/or take a new WP test based off of the new higher fear rated character.

When splitting kill-teams, the sub-groups must nominate a secondary leader. The sub-group's cohesion etc. then works off of that character's talents until the teams merge again. You do not get to select a new oath for this sub-group, you keep the oath originally selected at the mission's start.

2: When using signature wargear talents it is not intended to "upgrade" your weapons, this is RAW. Even if you wanted to consider it upgrading (for RP purposes for instance) the initial cost of the weapon is still counted against the total req allowed for signature wargear. If, for roleplaying purposes, you wish to say your sig wargear choice is reworking your power sword into a master crafted sword, the final product will be 30 req (20 req for basic sword + 10 mastercrafting premium), NOT 10 (mastercrafting premium).

3: A dice roll of 96+ (before modifiers) auto fails standard attacks and jams ranged weapon/grenades.
A dice roll of 94+ (before modifiers) auto fails a semi-auto and full-auto test, and jams the weapon.
A dice roll of 91+ (before modifiers) auto fails a focus power test.
There are no RAW dice ranges where tests not listed above will auto fail. (Although I would rule 96+ auto fails all tests.)

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Oops- my bad. I was going from memory rather than looking it up in the Rulebook, and mostly defaulted to Dark Heresy rules…

 

Maleficus_Sadi and herichimo are right- in Solo Mode, Space Marines get the WP penalty automatically, while in Squad Mode the Leader has to test WP or loose Cohesion points.

That said, I don't think it makes sense that mighty Astartes take an automatic penalty from Fear-causing opponents, while 'mere mortals' have a chance of completely resisting the effects of Fear, so I'm going to keep doing it my way in my campaign, and apply the WP penalty only if the Marine fails a WP test.

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We had fear come up a few times our games so far, Tyranids, and later in game effects (in the Baraban adventure with the DM screen). 

I understand the mechanics of the Fear test as described here.  I was doing it wrong, but live and learn.

 

So, other than adjusting will power or cohesion, what effect does fear have on marines?  I got the impression that it could impose insanity points onto the Marine?  Then again, I think I might just be thinking of that particular part of the adventure we were on, and forgot that was a one time thing.

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Marines DO take Fear tests.

 

P277

 

"When a PC is confronted
by such a frightening event or adversary, he must take a Fear
Test; this is a Willpower Test, modified by how frightening
the thing is. If the PC passes this test, then he may continue
to act as normal. If he fails, however, he succumbs to Fear."

Which is then what triggers the -10 to Willpower in solo mode or Cohesion damage check in squad mode.

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JohnDoe - Marines do not take Fear tests as described at the start of p277. Keep reading: 

"the Fear rules presented in this section are intended to be used either on the players' allies... or on their foes"

"In all other respects, Fear does not apply to Battle-Brothers".

Only non-Space Marines need to take Fear tests, and if they fail, roll for consequences on the Shock Table (Table 9-7). A Battle-Brother will never have to roll on that table. 

Space Marines are affected by Fear, but they do not take Fear tests. 

 

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Posted (edited)

That's not how I parse that section:

"When a PC is confronted by such a frightening event or adversary, he must take a Fear Test; this is a Willpower Test, modified by how frightening the thing is. If the PC passes this test, then he may continue to act as normal. If he fails, however, he succumbs to Fear."

"The Fear rules presented in this section are intended to be used either on the players’ allies (such as Imperial agents or citizens) or on their foes (it is quite possible for the Battle-Brothers to cause Fear themselves). For a Battle-Brother, Fear has the following effects, and then only when in the presence of Fear-causing foes:"

 

A normal character makes a Fear test and if they fail rolls on the Shock table (as well as possibly gaining Insanity), and if they pass are unaffected.

 

A Battle Brother makes a Fear test and if they fail suffer the -10 to Willpower in solo mode or Cohesion damage check in squad mode, and if they pass are unaffected.

 

A Battle Brother never rolls on the Shock Table or gains Insanity from fear. A Battle Brother only ever makes a Fear Test in the presence of Fear-causing foes. But they still get a Willpower check to completely shrug off the effects of Fear.

 

I admit I might be wrong, but it's kinda backwards to describe what the effects of failing a Fear check are after describing what a Fear check is for PCs if you don't have to make a Fear check because your character who Knows No Fear automatically is effected by every Fear causing enemy in the game (including ornery Guardsmen). I've always played it broadly in line with the way Adeptus-B describes. Is there an Errata or dev quote or official play example or something that clarifies?

Edited by JohnDoe244

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The Deathwatch rulebook often introduces mechanics that actually don't apply to Space Marines, because a lot of it is copied from earlier 40kRPG rulebooks where the PCs are not Astartes and therefore the mechanics are relevant. For example the bracing mechanic is explained on p140 and p238, even though every Space Marine has Bulging Biceps and therefore never needs to brace before firing a heavy weapon.

Similarly the Fear paragraph is essentially copy-pasted from earlier 40kRPG rulebooks, giving a general introduction to the Fear mechanics and how they would usually apply to PCs (and NPCs). See this comment for a comparison of the Fear text across rulebooks. Since Space Marines know no fear, the And They Shall Know No Fear... section then introduces the rules specifically for Space Marines.

Note from the Fear paragraph that the triggering event for taking a Fear test is "when a PC is confronted by such a frightening event or adversary". Note also that the wording in the And They Shall Know No Fear section specifically says "when facing a Fear-causing foe" and "when facing a Horde of Fear-causing creatures". Therefore the special rules for Space Marines kick in at the point of facing a Fear-causing enemy, which is the same point the normal Fear rules trigger. So at this point a normal non-Astartes PC or NPC takes a Fear test. A Space Marine (following the special rules) immediately suffers -10 WP or 1 Cohesion damage per level of Fear, and otherwise continues as normal.

Note also that a normal PC also takes a Fear test when encountering a frightening event, some examples of which are given in the Very Bad Things section on p278 (e.g. viewing the scene of a gruesome murder is Fear 1, staring unprotected into the Warp is Fear 4). But per the And They Shall Know No Fear section, Space Marines specifically do not experience Fear effects from events, only from enemies - "For a Battle Brother, Fear has the following effects, and then only when in the presence of Fear-causing foes".

You said you play Fear the way Adeptus-B describes - but he agrees with me that RAW Space Marines do not take Fear tests. See this comment a couple before yours. He also says he house rules that they do take the test, and of course you are welcome to do so as well, but we are talking about RAW.

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