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mwodom

upper limit on ability/proficiency and difficulty/challenge dice

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As I was reading some of the other posts it got me wondering if there was ever an upper limit stated on the dice that can be upgraded. If you have enough destiny points could you upgrade the ability/proficiency dice beyond 6 or the difficulty/challenge dice beyond?

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There is no hard cap.  Adding up all the various bonuses I can see I think the most you could possibly need are either 8 ability dice or 10 proficiency dice. I'm not going to try and figure out difficulty and challenge dice as there are way too many defensive talents.

On a side note, you are limited to spending a single destiny point during an action.

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Characteristics can usually not be increased beyond 6, but I think cybernetics allows it to reach 7.

Skills can reach rank 5 - but then again some cybernetics provides a rank bonus, but if this is in addition and breaks the 5 rank cap I don't know, but it's how I play it. So my calculations are based on the assumption of skills being able to reach rank 6 through cybernetic augmentations, which may not be correct.

In this case the max base dice pool for a maxed out skill and characteristic combo would be 6 proficieny and 1 ability - or 7 proficiency if using a destiny point to upgrade. Of course if someone rolled a triumph on a previous combat check you could receive a further upgrade, so that would be 7 proficiency an 1 ability dice. Also some talents allows for upgrades, which could further increase the size of the pool. I think 6 proficiency dice would be more than enough.

As for the difficulty/challenge dice. This is harder to determine. While I usually only set it using difficulty dice, I feel that I should be able to set it using challenge dice too, without having to spend a destiny point as an upgrade. Some stuff is just really, really, challenging and risky. I've never made anyone roll more than 2 or 3 challenge dice though… the potential of 3 despairs, however slim, creates a panic in my group, a state of paranoia… a halfway religious sounding, collective neuro-psychosis of defence.

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Jegergryte said:

In this case the max base dice pool for a maxed out skill and characteristic combo would be 6 proficieny and 1 ability - or 7 proficiency if using a destiny point to upgrade. Of course if someone rolled a triumph on a previous combat check you could receive a further upgrade, so that would be 7 proficiency an 1 ability dice. Also some talents allows for upgrades, which could further increase the size of the pool. I think 6 proficiency dice would be more than enough.

An upgrade to a pool that was 6Y 1G would not be 7Y 1G, it would be 7Y as the Ability would be upgraded to a Proficiency. It would take TWO upgrades to go from 6Y 1G to 7Y 1G.

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Kallabecca said:

Jegergryte said:

 

In this case the max base dice pool for a maxed out skill and characteristic combo would be 6 proficieny and 1 ability - or 7 proficiency if using a destiny point to upgrade. Of course if someone rolled a triumph on a previous combat check you could receive a further upgrade, so that would be 7 proficiency an 1 ability dice. Also some talents allows for upgrades, which could further increase the size of the pool. I think 6 proficiency dice would be more than enough.

 

 

An upgrade to a pool that was 6Y 1G would not be 7Y 1G, it would be 7Y as the Ability would be upgraded to a Proficiency. It would take TWO upgrades to go from 6Y 1G to 7Y 1G.

It seems as if you are correcting what Jegergryte said, but you are just saying the same thing.  Am I misunderstanding?

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No, I'm saying exactly that - although I'm assuming that the Triumph-derived upgrade is happening within the preceding example where the player used a destiny point to upgrade. Could be hard to gather I guess. So I am actually adding 2 upgrades - as I specifically state "you could receive a further upgrade" which I'd think would clarify that as an addition to the previous stated upgrade from destiny point.

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mwodom said:

If you have enough destiny points could you upgrade the ability/proficiency dice beyond 6 or the difficulty/challenge dice beyond?

I don't see how the number of destiny points available is relevant.  It's explicit that only one destiny point can be spent per roll.

-WJL

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Yes, my brain conveniently left out the one destiny point rule when I was asking the question. I was just wondering if there is a limit on how many dice you can roll per check or could it be limitless depending on the circumstances.

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Actually, the way I read it, each player can use 1 destiny point per action. Now, you can only use destiny points to enhance your own rolls however, you can use them to raise the stakes (upgrade difficulty) on opposing rolls. So, in theory (and if I'm reading it correctly), if there were enough destiny points available, the players could gang up against a single roll and upgrade its difficulty by one each. 

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Nyarlathotep5150 said:

Actually, the way I read it, each player can use 1 destiny point per action. Now, you can only use destiny points to enhance your own rolls however, you can use them to raise the stakes (upgrade difficulty) on opposing rolls. So, in theory (and if I'm reading it correctly), if there were enough destiny points available, the players could gang up against a single roll and upgrade its difficulty by one each. 

No, each side (players and GM) can only spend one destiny point per action.  On the players' side, the acting player chooses whether or not to spend a destiny point on their action.

 

-WJL

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mwodom said:

Somehow the focus  turned to destiny points. I am still wondering about the total number of dice that can be thrown in any one check.

 

Like I said before.  There is no limit other than what stats, skills, talents, and other bonuses are involved.  I believe you can't need more than 8 ability dice or 10 proficiency dice but I easily could have missed something in my calculations.  I think you can need even more difficulty and challenge dice due to the fact that more defensive talents seem to exist, but I don't feel like trying to figure it out.

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mwodom said:

 

Somehow the focus  turned to destiny points. I am still wondering about the total number of dice that can be thrown in any one check.

 

 

 

It wasn't a focus, and it's not separate from your question.  But regardless…

The answer to the question "What is the total number fo dice that can be thrown in any one check?" is either:

  • "A whole freakin' lot", OR
  • "as many as you need to throw"

There is no rule about the maximum number of dice of ANY type that are allowed to go into a pool.  At all.  That would be a silly rule and wouldn't serve any purpose.

Now, in >99% of the rolls made, the number of Proficiency and Ability dice will be 8 or less, and the number of Difficulty and Challenge dice will be 6 or less.

If you got 3 sets of dice, you'd be set for almost any dice pool.  I'm sure there are some crazy cases where that wouldn't be true, though.

And if these answers are insuffcient to sate your curiousity, then I think we'd need to know more about why you're asking in the first place to give you better answers.

-WJL

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