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lalchant

Michigan Regional Tourney Report; A brief history of the Michigan Meta

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Dobbler said:

 

IF I were to get an invite (which is obviously no sure thing), I can't imagine telling my metamates who didn't get an invite "Hey, please drive to Michigan with me.  I'm going to play in this awesome tourney, while you guys get the sidekick tourney"

 

 

 

Perhaps I misunderstand (and apologies if I do), but I find his point was more of to have a large tournament that is not "Gencon or Worlds". I feel like I would go, though I would never get an "invitation". I'm sure I would have a blast joining the people I went with and seeing the people in this community I've grown close to. Having a large tournament (or two tournaments with a qualifier) mitigates this "exclusive" aspect.

 

With regionals being more spread out this year (something I personally love, but I recognize it has its drawbacks) the competition from regionals is potentially slightly different from years past or "the old ways".  Creating an environment for a lot of players (including top players) to travel to is potentially a good thing. I personally am able to travel to far fewer tournaments than I previously intended -- I would never knock another opportunity to do so, especially if it included people on a more national level.

 

However, I also hate exclusivity. While I would attend from a social aspect, you create the difficult situation of creating an environment where everyone feels welcome but you still have the desired effect of "the best of the best" competing. If you use a completely objective scale (winning a world tournament) you exclude some phenomenal players who deserve a substantial amount of recognition -- as mentioned: Nate French and soon-to-be-footrubbed ktom. However, if you make it subjective you make a very difficult decision of you deciding who the best players are, which can be certainly biased based on who you've personally come to see and meet. There are many players that are phenomenal but travel very little.

 

I love the idea, but feel that the execution could have complications. Regardless, I feel that the point was to bring a closer community, not to divide it. While it is stated to be exclusive in its nature, I feel that there could be some benefit by bringing together the "best of the best" in a manner that is not the twice-a-year that FFG has allotted.


TL;DR: The idea of a large tournament that is not at Gencon or Worlds has its appeals, and I feel like we should be open to the opportunity. If there is an exclusive aspect to it, side tournaments should be free and plenty. If there isn’t then we should be thrilled for another opportunity to face off against AGoT’s best. Regardless, we should revel in the fact that this community is amazing and worth traveling for.

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The Red Woman said:

 

Dobbler said:

 

IF I were to get an invite (which is obviously no sure thing), I can't imagine telling my metamates who didn't get an invite "Hey, please drive to Michigan with me.  I'm going to play in this awesome tourney, while you guys get the sidekick tourney"

 

 

 

Perhaps I misunderstand (and apologies if I do), but I find his point was more of to have a large tournament that is not "Gencon or Worlds". I feel like I would go, though I would never get an "invitation". I'm sure I would have a blast joining the people I went with and seeing the people in this community I've grown close to. Having a large tournament (or two tournaments with a qualifier) mitigates this "exclusive" aspect.

 

With regionals being more spread out this year (something I personally love, but I recognize it has its drawbacks) the competition from regionals is potentially slightly different from years past or "the old ways".  Creating an environment for a lot of players (including top players) to travel to is potentially a good thing. I personally am able to travel to far fewer tournaments than I previously intended -- I would never knock another opportunity to do so, especially if it included people on a more national level.

 

However, I also hate exclusivity. While I would attend from a social aspect, you create the difficult situation of creating an environment where everyone feels welcome but you still have the desired effect of "the best of the best" competing. If you use a completely objective scale (winning a world tournament) you exclude some phenomenal players who deserve a substantial amount of recognition -- as mentioned: Nate French and soon-to-be-footrubbed ktom. However, if you make it subjective you make a very difficult decision of you deciding who the best players are, which can be certainly biased based on who you've personally come to see and meet. There are many players that are phenomenal but travel very little.

 

I love the idea, but feel that the execution could have complications. Regardless, I feel that the point was to bring a closer community, not to divide it. While it is stated to be exclusive in its nature, I feel that there could be some benefit by bringing together the "best of the best" in a manner that is not the twice-a-year that FFG has allotted.


TL;DR: The idea of a large tournament that is not at Gencon or Worlds has its appeals, and I feel like we should be open to the opportunity. If there is an exclusive aspect to it, side tournaments should be free and plenty. If there isn’t then we should be thrilled for another opportunity to face off against AGoT’s best. Regardless, we should revel in the fact that this community is amazing and worth traveling for.

 

If the idea is truly to build community, then the best example is Chicon (I, II and III).  Free drinks, free food, large home, a ton of people coming, no exclusivity, but yet still the best of the best showed up to compete with young upstarts who wanted to prove themselves to be among the best of the best.  All of it held outside of the normal convention or formal gaming store atmosphere.  Drinks while playing?  Sure.  Drinks while watching?  Sure.  Community and relationships built?  For sure.

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Dobbler said:

If the idea is truly to build community, then the best example is Chicon (I, II and III).  Free drinks, free food, large home, a ton of people coming, no exclusivity, but yet still the best of the best showed up to compete with young upstarts who wanted to prove themselves to be among the best of the best.  All of it held outside of the normal convention or formal gaming store atmosphere.  Drinks while playing?  Sure.  Drinks while watching?  Sure.  Community and relationships built?  For sure.

i think we (the community) are all on the same page with the OP on what will happen now, OP just did a poor job of explaining his intentions in the OP.

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Dobbler said:

If the idea is truly to build community, then the best example is Chicon (I, II and III).  Free drinks, free food, large home, a ton of people coming, no exclusivity, but yet still the best of the best showed up to compete with young upstarts who wanted to prove themselves to be among the best of the best.  All of it held outside of the normal convention or formal gaming store atmosphere.  Drinks while playing?  Sure.  Drinks while watching?  Sure.  Community and relationships built?  For sure.

I definitely agree with this. I almost made an analogy to Chicon -- I think that type of community atmosphere is what's in mind, though I think the experience is irreplacable, especially without free booze, free pizza, and a t-shirt depicting a bowl of brown (I definitely wore mine as a sleep shirt the other night. If this new thing happens, I need a Without his Beard shirt for sure). 

However, I think that a good large AGoT tournament will naturally create, build, and strengthen relationships within the community, regardless of whether or not it can live up to Chicon. 

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I wanted to host a tournament with like a 2000 dollar first place prize, where I rented out a large venue for the day (I would make some of the money back on food/drinks and entry fee, but ultimately lose money I'm sure).  I think it would be awesome though.--maybe not as cool as a card design, but still cool.

However, some of my meta-mates informed me that cash prizes have legal implications, so this could prove difficult.--I'd have to check in which state(s) I could actually do this I suppose.

I just think a couple thousand dollars prize would draw a lot of great players 'out of the woodwork' so to speak. Especially if the venue was great.

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As a potential solution that both provides "the best of the best" and a welcoming environment for all, why not have an open tournament alongside a "Championship" tournament?

There can be a large tournament for everyone who wishes to attend, and each meta enters their champion into the "invitational" tournament? It, in a way, makes a more competitive event because some metas are lucky enough to have multiple world champs (and would-be world champs if they could manage not to get disqualified), and you mitigate the advantage that individuals playing from the same meta have in a field. 

This reduces the stress of having to choose who gets to go -- let the individual metas decide. I imagine you'll get the best level of competition without making anyone feel like they're not welcome. 

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lalchant said:

I would like to clear up some things because, obviously, there is a bit of misunderstanding about what I am trying to do. I do not wish to exclude anyone, rather to bring together the "Dream Team" of AGOT to create excitement in the community. As so aptly stated by mdc273, I would like it to be "an invitational that is meant to bring the best players around the world, past and present, and see who is the best right now". His analogy about Wimbledon also serves to drive home a point that I am trying to make, that it is meant to be something of an honor to be included in the "best of the best".

I did not think that anyone would be offended by my inviting what no one seems to be disputing as the top players in the game. As I said in the original post, anyone is invited and even encouraged to attend. I would also like this to be a collaborative effort. I need support and enthusiasm from the community to make this happen so, I am more than willing to tweak my ideas for how the tourney should go. This is the way I was thinking it would go: two tournaments side-by-side, the King in the North tourney and the Meta Wars tourney. The champions of each tourney would then compete against each other. I had not meant the Meta tourney to seem like a "sidekick tourney" but more of an old vs. new thing. This is not an exclusionary event, just a different tournament structure than is usual. 

Greg, this being said, of course you are included. I don't think this is a larger than life tourney situation, nor do I think it will be impossible to pull off, as long as it continues to gain community support and attention. I realize that the prospect of knowing that each match-up in the tourney will be against a #1 player, from the first game to the last, is a bit intimidating. However, I mean for this to be a motivational, rather than a discouraging, factor.

Hmmm… Not sure if this is what you meant, but having an open tournament and an invitation only tournament could be really interesting. The top players get to play against the other top players and don't play a traditional tournament. The non-top players play for the right to square off against the top, top players.

So basically, one open tournament and one closed tournament. You cut to top 4 or 8, half from the open tournament, half from the closed tournament. Seed 1 of Open tourney plays Seed 4 of Closed tourney, Seed 2 of Open plays Seed 3 of closed etc.

Really would be an interesting format.

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dcdennis said:

Wait I thought OP said he already emailed all the best players for feedback about the tourney? Something must have gone wrong because I never got one ;)

most vocal /= best

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dcdennis said:

Wait I thought OP said he already emailed all the best players for feedback about the tourney? Something must have gone wrong because I never got one ;)

 

I think Nate French was the only one who got one

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I apologize for the continued misunderstanding. By saying "I am sending out my ravens" I didn't mean that I would be sending individual invitations. That isn't possible since I don't know everyone's screen name or email address. What I meant is that I will post a list of those who I wish to invite. I want this to be a collaborative effort, as I have said numerous times, so if I mistakenly leave out any names who anyone feels should be on the list, please let me know who they are and why they should be included. I don't want this to be biased, I want everyone to be in agreement. I had intended this to be an event that would cause excitement within the community, not animosity. 

In answer to Greg's concerns, lucky for all of you, I am a chef. Food and drinks will be provided for all of the participants on the day of the tournaments. I will take requests for meals as well, let me know what you would all like to see on the banquet table and I'll do my best to accommodate. 

This is the list that I have put together (so far). I'm sure I've forgotten someone or multiple someones (again, not intentional) so please look this over and post a response if anyone thinks of any names to add. Also if I misspell anyone's name or have put only a nickname (sorry K-Tom, I don't know your last name) please correct me. If your name is on the list, please contact me via a post or email at lalchant@gmail.com to let me know if you are interested. Once we have talked about this as a community and those included on the list have responded, I will revise the list accordingly and post the official roster. 

Brett Zyler

Greg Atkinson

John Bruno

Eric Butzlaff

Casey Galvan

Nathan French

Jason Aubrey

Reeds

Mark Melnik

K-Tom

 

I will be contacting Team Covenant today to see if they are interested in being involved. Thanks again guys; I can't wait to see your lists and input.

 

 

 

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no offense to ktom but why is he on this list? being a pro at the rules doesn't make you a pro player. last i checked he hasnt won anything. and i dont think im being insulting as he has admitted several times himself on these boards that he is an average player at best.

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Dennis, This is just a quick list I put together off the top of my head. I forgot to mention you, sorry no offense, what I am looking for here is for  some interaction from all of you. I am sure I have forgotten several people, once we all write up a list, It should be pretty clear who should be participating in the event.  

 K-Tom is an important part of the comunity and I feel he should be apart of this event. We will figure it out as we go.

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lalchant said:

Dennis, This is just a quick list I put together off the top of my head. I forgot to mention you, sorry no offense, what I am looking for here is for  some interaction from all of you. I am sure I have forgotten several people, once we all write up a list, It should be pretty clear who should be participating in the event.  

 K-Tom is an important part of the comunity and I feel he should be apart of this event. We will figure it out as we go.

 

for the record, i in no way belong on the list with those names either. now if you would like to have a perpetual bridesmaid tourney, im your man!  

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~Who are this people?……i've never heard of John Bruno or Erick….. xD.

I think the Each meta chooses their champion is a good idea. It's sort of like elections primaries. It would be better if each meta had 2 champs send and in the first round they had a best of 3 match to see who compites and the "losers" play the sidekick tourney.

 

Also it's not the best of the best…it's the best of EEUU/Canada since i don't think you'll have europeans (they say swiss and spaniards are crazy good)

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dcdennis said:

lalchant said:

 

Dennis, This is just a quick list I put together off the top of my head. I forgot to mention you, sorry no offense, what I am looking for here is for  some interaction from all of you. I am sure I have forgotten several people, once we all write up a list, It should be pretty clear who should be participating in the event.  

 K-Tom is an important part of the comunity and I feel he should be apart of this event. We will figure it out as we go.

 

 

 

for the record, i in no way belong on the list with those names either. now if you would like to have a perpetual bridesmaid tourney, im your man!  

 

That was a yoke!!!

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All this discussion has peaked the NYC interest in a big event. We are going to consider hosting a large event, with all proceeds going to charity, and everyone invited. I'm uncertain about timing… If we do this, we want to do it right, and so it might be a long while. We also don't want to compete with the regionals (I think). This would be for a good cause and for building this community. Also, for people who don't often get to NY and want to see the sites, would be a fun event.

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ok guyes, finally back online, surprised to see that no one posted a list.

Anyway thing are still moving along, and the official roster will be posted in two weeks.

 

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BTW…. Great news regarding the food for the event. I have just gotten of the phone with Chef Trevor Mcgrath and he has agreed to be part of The King In The North Tourney.  He is a great Chef from Chicago, was also on Hells Kitchen session 6. He finished third place on the show. 

So who are we feeding???

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lalchant said:

BTW…. Great news regarding the food for the event. I have just gotten of the phone with Chef Trevor Mcgrath and he has agreed to be part of The King In The North Tourney.  He is a great Chef from Chicago, was also on Hells Kitchen session 6. He finished third place on the show. 

So who are we feeding???

First off, can you outline what you're current thinking for the tourney is? What I've heard so far is.

Invitational Bracket - 10 players invited. 4 - 7 Swiss Rounds (Single or Best of 3 depending on attendance) to decide top 4/2/1.

Open Bracket - No player limit. Single game, 4 - 8 Swiss rounds to decide top 4/2/1.

Playoff Bracket

Round 1:
Game 1: Closed Seed 1 vs. Open Seed 4
Game 2: Closed Seed 2 vs. Open Seed 3
Game 3: Closed Seed 3 vs. Open Seed 2
Game 4: Closed Seed 4 vs. Open Seed 1

Round 2:
Game 1: Winner Game 1 vs. Winner Game 4
Game 2: Winner Game 2 vs. Winner Game 3

Final:
Winner Game 1 vs. Winner Game 2

Also, you may want to consider adding Twn2Dn to your invitational. He was third place overall at Gencon and the DC Martell archetype was based on a deck he originally created specifically to play in our local NYC melees (or so I'm told). I don't know if he'd be able to attend, but other than that I don't know really know anyone in the greater AGoT community.

Additionally, you probably want to invite more to the Invitational Bracket. You need to ensure that you get enough players to conduct the closed bracket. I like the idea of each meta nominating someone and maybe polling the AGoT community on how to prioritize selection of nominated players for inclusion in the closed bracket. You could just invite regional winners, too. That'd be easy.

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