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HappyDaze

Bipod/Tripod and Basic Weapons

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I notice that the Sniper Rifle comes with a tripod, and it got me to wondering…

Is there any reason to use a Bipod/Tripod with a Basic Weapon?  AFAICT, Bracing is only needed for Heavy Weapons. So what is the game effect of having a Bipod/Tripod on a Basic Weapon?

Also, what is the point in ever taking a Bipod when the Tripod appears to have the same weight and is more effective?

 

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HappyDaze said:

I notice that the Sniper Rifle comes with a tripod, and it got me to wondering…

Is there any reason to use a Bipod/Tripod with a Basic Weapon?  AFAICT, Bracing is only needed for Heavy Weapons. So what is the game effect of having a Bipod/Tripod on a Basic Weapon?

Also, what is the point in ever taking a Bipod when the Tripod appears to have the same weight and is more effective?

 

 

In real life it improves accuracy by bracing the rifle. In the game it seems to only benefit heavy weapons by removing the -30 penalty. Difference between the two type of pods would be bulk (not weight).

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I'm pretty sure that you can Brace a Basic weapon too (or even a Pistol) for the bipod/tripod bonuses. 

Also, it is worth noting that the tripod occupies a lot of space, so you can't use it anywhere you want (like in a window). 

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A bi/tripod mounted weapon (Basic or Heavy) further equipped with the Vox-Operated upgrade can be used as a very crude remote/sentry gun. Plus the mounting will keep the weapon out of the mud/low-ground-mist, and they'd allow an Aim or Overwatch to be maintained almost indefinately.

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Darck Child said:

AtoMaki said:

 

I'm pretty sure that you can Brace a Basic weapon too (or even a Pistol) for the bipod/tripod bonuses. 

 

I didn't see any bonuses.

 

Really? I only have my gaming group's reference sheet at hand, but it says that if you brace a weapon on a bipod/tripod, then you gain +10 BS and +2 AB for Overwatch. 

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AtoMaki said:

Really? I only have my gaming group's reference sheet at hand, but it says that if you brace a weapon on a bipod/tripod, then you gain +10 BS and +2 AB for Overwatch. 

 

Yeah I can't seem to find any reference to any bonus for bracing or for sustaining overwatch…  :(

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Darck Child said:

AtoMaki said:

 

Really? I only have my gaming group's reference sheet at hand, but it says that if you brace a weapon on a bipod/tripod, then you gain +10 BS and +2 AB for Overwatch. 

 

Yeah I can't seem to find any reference to any bonus for bracing or for sustaining overwatch…  :(

Hmmm… That's strange. It should give something, because otherwise, the bipod/tripod doesn't have a use at all. 

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AtoMaki said:

Hmmm… That's strange. It should give something, because otherwise, the bipod/tripod doesn't have a use at all. 

I don't disagree but I haven't found anything in Only War that supports this other than removing the -30 for Heavy Weapons that require bracing to fire…

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I agree that there should be some benefit to using a Bipod/Tripod with a Basic Weapon, because as it stands now, it has no use with Basic Weapons. I also don't understand why anyone would select the inferior Bipod over the Tripod.

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HappyDaze said:

I also don't understand why anyone would select the inferior Bipod over the Tripod.

 

Bulk? Again not weight.  Have you tried Google or other search engine for weapon bipod then weapon tripod?

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HappyDaze said:

I agree that there should be some benefit to using a Bipod/Tripod with a Basic Weapon, because as it stands now, it has no use with Basic Weapons. I also don't understand why anyone would select the inferior Bipod over the Tripod.

Well, bipods and tripods are ueless for Heavy weapons too if they don't give away bonuses. You can Brace a Heavy weapon anywhere, you don't need a bipod/tripod for that. The only reason I can see to take a bipod/tripod is if the character cannot carry around the weapon alone (because it is too heavy) so his movement/positioning options are limited. But if you can't carry your own weapon, they you are probably doing something wrong :D

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You can't brace a Heavy weapon anywhere, you need a stable object to brace it against. A bipod can be attached and a tripod can be carried along to have such an object.

About the bonus, IIRC there was a discussion in one of the forums about houseruling that bracing gives a BS bonus in addition to removing the penalty, thus making it useful for Basic weapons as well as making bracing an option even if you possess Bulging Biceps.

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Hampulina93 said:

You can't brace a Heavy weapon anywhere, you need a stable object to brace it against. A bipod can be attached and a tripod can be carried along to have such an object.

Actually, you can brace a heavy weapon by simply assuming a better stance. It is right in the description of the Brace action. So you can be on the middle of nowhere with your man portable lascannon and brace it without problem by getting a better hold on it or something. You don't have to put it down. 

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AtoMaki said:

Hampulina93 said:

 

You can't brace a Heavy weapon anywhere, you need a stable object to brace it against. A bipod can be attached and a tripod can be carried along to have such an object.

 

 

Actually, you can brace a heavy weapon by simply assuming a better stance. It is right in the description of the Brace action. So you can be on the middle of nowhere with your man portable lascannon and brace it without problem by getting a better hold on it or something. You don't have to put it down. 

This is my understanding as well. Having a bipod/tripod only allows a Heavy Weapon to be left in place in a continuously braced condition. It is still useless for a Basic Weapon.

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Darck Child said:

HappyDaze said:

 

I also don't understand why anyone would select the inferior Bipod over the Tripod.

 

 

 

Bulk? Again not weight.  Have you tried Google or other search engine for weapon bipod then weapon tripod?

I would assume that such a factor might involve extra actions to deploy the tripod vs. bipod but no such rules exist. Both also have the same weight, and it's not too unlikely that both (when folded) have a similar "bulk" (not that bulk has any real game effect - consider that mechanised infanty still use full lasguns not carbines or bullpups).

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I think that I'm just going to remove this part from the sniper rifle:

"Complete with a tripod brace, silencer, and telescopic sight,"

Because:

1) The tripod is useless.

2) It has in-description rules for it's non-removable sound baffling which while functionally identical to a silencer is not a add-on feature.

3) It should have the option of mounting other sights just like the long las.

4) The weapon gets way to light if it's mass already includes all of the above.

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I don't care what the rules say, you can't brace an autocannon or heavy bolter just by "assuming a proper stance." Strengh 22 Ratling autocannon guy just spreads his legs wide and voila!

This is obviously going to depend on weapon type.

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bogi_khaosa said:

I don't care what the rules say, you can't brace an autocannon or heavy bolter just by "assuming a proper stance." Strengh 22 Ratling autocannon guy just spreads his legs wide and voila!

This is obviously going to depend on weapon type.

As I've said above, the bipod/tripod only good for characters who can't even lift the heavy weapon at all on their own. Like your S 22 Ratling. But since a Heavy Gunner usually has a Strength of 40+ (because he/she is going for the compulsory Bulging Biceps), it isn't a problem. 

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Your misquoting the book

The discription says:

"Complete with tripod brace, silencer, and telescopic sight, in the right hands of a skilled marksman it can easily turnt he tide of a battle"

A standard SP sniper rife does not come with tripod and sight but when they are attached it makes a mean weapon. It does come with integral noise baffles which does the exact same thing as a silencer (if bulk is a hastle - house rule that it doesnt have the baffles and allow it to take a silencer at a later date).

 

In terms of the tripod/bipod situation, i see it more as a non-statable upgrade. sure some weapons like the rocket launcher can be braced on your sholder but things like the Hvy Bolter and Autocannon would need to be braced upon something (unless you have Buging Biceps) a stand alows the weapon to be off the ground and less ristricted by the object its braced on:

Impose penalties to rapidly changing directions of fire;

have the munitorium agent/ tech preists get angry at the damaged or dirty underside of the weapon;

have the Lascannon super heat the mud its resting on damaging the weapon / crew or miss the shot

ect.

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Nefasine said:

In terms of the tripod/bipod situation, i see it more as a non-statable upgrade. sure some weapons like the rocket launcher can be braced on your sholder but things like the Hvy Bolter and Autocannon would need to be braced upon something (unless you have Buging Biceps) a stand alows the weapon to be off the ground and less ristricted by the object its braced on:

Well, that would look rather strange… So you should brace the weapon on something, but if you give the same weapon to someone with Bulging Bicpes then *blink* he could use it on the run without problem. Like, okay, Bulging Biceps is an awesome Talent, but it doesn't change the weapon itself. 

Also you can use a Heavy Bolter or an Autocannon in a standing stance. Just look at  the Space Marines Scout Heavy Bolter model or the Adriana Autocannon Tank Hunter model from Infinity. And back in the Rogue Trader era, every imperial guardsman had his heavy weapon on his shoulder (yes, even the lascannon!), Space Marine style.

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Nefasine said:

Your misquoting the book

The discription says:

"Complete with tripod brace, silencer, and telescopic sight, in the right hands of a skilled marksman it can easily turnt he tide of a battle"

A standard SP sniper rife does not come with tripod and sight but when they are attached it makes a mean weapon. It does come with integral noise baffles which does the exact same thing as a silencer (if bulk is a hastle - house rule that it doesnt have the baffles and allow it to take a silencer at a later date).

Where I come from, an item that says "Complete with [something]" means that it comes with that something, not that you need to get [something] to make it complete. Besides, your take doesn't make any sense with regards to the silencer since the weapon already has an integral suppressor that functions identically.

Here's an example:

'The Office' takes a final bow in Scranton, complete with Steve Carell

Does viewer need to add in Steve Carell to make the final episode complete, or is it clear that he's already in the episode and that the episode is complete with him in it? I say the latter, and following the same reasoning, the sniper rifle includes those items that it is listed as being "complete with" such as the tripod and telescopic sight.

 

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HappyDaze said:

I think that I'm just going to remove this part from the sniper rifle:

"Complete with a tripod brace, silencer, and telescopic sight,"

Because:

1) The tripod is useless.

2) It has in-description rules for it's non-removable sound baffling which while functionally identical to a silencer is not a add-on feature.

3) It should have the option of mounting other sights just like the long las.

4) The weapon gets way to light if it's mass already includes all of the above.

 

One could argue that the sniper rifle gains it's accuracte quality from the tripod - which makes sense as the tripod/bipod in the real world helps with accuracy (from what I've read).

 

The built in silence makes it hard to for people to hear the shots.

 

Omni-scope and Targeter can be used with the sniper rifle as it states under their descriptions that they can be used with Solid Projectile weapon.

 

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Darck Child said:

 

 

 

One could argue that the sniper rifle gains it's accuracte quality from the tripod - which makes sense as the tripod/bipod in the real world helps with accuracy (from what I've read).

 

 

 



Bipod/ tripod adding the accurate quality to basic weapons braced,  aimed, and fired on single shot sounds like a great idea to me. 


That or the aformentioned +10 to BS when firing a  weapon braced with a bi/tripod which makes a lot sense functionally. 


Don't get me wrong, i think the sniper rifle and long-las should accurate independent of the bipod/tripod due to their longer barrels, but the idea makes sense.

Unfortunately,  the upgrade in HotE for long barrel doesn't do this. Rather it just duplicates the TT upgrade. :

 

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I also find it odd that the sniper rifle comes with a tripod rather than a bipod. I've seen FAR more examples of rifles being fitted with bipods than tripods IRL, and I haven't seen any WH40K art or minis that show a sniper rifle (or other rifle) with a tripod.

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