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TinyGrimes

Star Wars LCG Stream

22 posts in this topic

Hey everyone,

I've decided to start streaming some OCTGN games on Twitchtv and I'm including commentary. I must admit managing the stream, commenting, and playing has caused me to play a bit poorly at times. However, I think it is still a useful tool for the community and I've been getting better at multitasking these. I've been updating when I'm streaming on the Smugglers Den Facebook page.

 

The stream can be found at: http://www.twitch.tv/tinygrimes/

There are 7 videos currently archived from this past week.

I'm planning to stream around 1:30 PM pacific tomorrow and I'm seeking a top level opponent. So please do contact me if you want to play me in a streamed game.

 

Tiny

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Hey Tiny, I just saw your game against Jarrett and I had some questions. At the end of the game, did he commit everyone to Fall of the Jedi? So you lost the edge and he strikes with Rogue Three. That deals one damage to Palpatine and two damage to the objective, bringing it up to 3. Now it's your turn to strike, but before you do, he Rebel Assaults your injured Palpatine. Why couldn't you then redirect to the Royal Guard? Then you focus Palpatine to place tactics on the Y-wing for 1 and Rogue Three for 1. Now, even with Wedge, Rogue Three is out for the round and the objective survives. Alternatively, he just uses Rebel Assault on the damaged objective and you don't lose the Royal Guard. Either way, it didn't appear to me to be the checkmate you claimed it was. What was I missing?

If that happened, and if you drew Vader on your next turn, you could destroy an objective with Devastator and another with Vader/Palpatine to finish off the game.

EDIT: Maybe you talked about that with Jarrett at the end but I couldn't hear anything Jarrett was saying.

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Budgernaut said:

Hey Tiny, I just saw your game against Jarrett and I had some questions. At the end of the game, did he commit everyone to Fall of the Jedi? So you lost the edge and he strikes with Rogue Three. That deals one damage to Palpatine and two damage to the objective, bringing it up to 3. Now it's your turn to strike, but before you do, he Rebel Assaults your injured Palpatine. Why couldn't you then redirect to the Royal Guard? Then you focus Palpatine to place tactics on the Y-wing for 1 and Rogue Three for 1. Now, even with Wedge, Rogue Three is out for the round and the objective survives. Alternatively, he just uses Rebel Assault on the damaged objective and you don't lose the Royal Guard. Either way, it didn't appear to me to be the checkmate you claimed it was. What was I missing?

If that happened, and if you drew Vader on your next turn, you could destroy an objective with Devastator and another with Vader/Palpatine to finish off the game.

EDIT: Maybe you talked about that with Jarrett at the end but I couldn't hear anything Jarrett was saying.

 

Short answer: He forgot.

It's the perils of playing on OCTGN, a program that I'm very thankful is even around.  For all it's shortcomings, I wouldn't want to go without it.  Even seasoned players, even seasoned OCTGN players make mistakes like that cuz everything is tiny, unless you're Frank with your 2000" TV.  You make mistakes while playing on that program that you probably wouldn't make in real life, with life-sized cards in front of you.  And Jarret either didn't notice it either (entirely possible) or didn't say anything. I'm guessing the former.

And while you think narrating the play-by-play of your own game would help you focus, for myself (and Tiny admits this as well) it has the opposite effect.

 

Micah

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I noticed it after the match when I was watching the video again. Yeah, when you're narrating on a live feed, you can easily miss things like that (or even in person with a crowd watching, etc.)

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Well that is unfortunate. My apologies to people watching these videos and seeing such terrible errors. I'm hoping my brain can adjust to playing at about 60 percent capactiy. If not I may have to rethink the narration. Are people finding the narration useful? Or are the errors just making the stream pointless. Any feedback is much appreciated.

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How are you streaming it? Is it truly streamed, or is it recorded and then uploaded? If it is the latter vice the former, there may be a way to "add" the narration post recording.

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Yeah, we all make mistakes, and I've never tried narrating a game so I can't speak to the difficulty of that. For my part, I play more OCTGN games than live games, so I think I actually make more mistakes with physical cards. It's kind of a bummer.

I like the narration for the most part. The hardest part is not being able to hear your opponent. I guess that's just a volume/mic issue. I've only watched this one so far, and it was okay. The mistake at the end kind of caught me off guard, but I don't feel it ruined the whole experience. In fact, it was kind of a nice exercise to watch and think, "Now what would I do…".

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I like the narration but I don't usually have the chance to watch live. I know I'm only a voice of 1 but I'd think just recording and doing the narration later would be better. For example, if you wanted to pause the game and make a point about what you're doing you don't have to worry about your opponent moving too quickly or whatnot, you can control how it's presented.

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I'm watching your match against phrosbyte right now. At about 49 minutes, I would have played the round differently. I would not have played Yoda. Instead, I'd play the Guardian and the Twi'lek. I would send the Twi'lek Smuggler against an objective. I'd hope he sends the Droid to defend against her. If I were him, I'd send in the droid and focus out Han. So then I'd try to goad him into losing cards to win the edge so he could strike before you focus him. But in the action window after he wins the edge battle, you use Echo Caversn to steal his tactics and give it to the focused Interrogation Droid!!! He thought there was no way to lose that tactics, but there was! Now you give the Twi'lek an extra unit damage to kill the interrogation droid and focus the Royal Guard. You only get two blast damge by attacking with Han, but you almost clear out his board. And you've got guardians and Yoda for a defensive edge, if you need it. Man, I LOVE this game!

EDIT: I just want to point out that I'm not saying this to say you did it wrong. I don't know if you did it wrong or not because I haven't seen how that round will play out. I'm just giving new perspectives on the same problem.

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Budgernaut,

 

Nice work keep the alternate answers coming. I'll have to take a look later. Thanks for providing the minute mark so I can jump right to it.

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I was just so excited when I saw that opportunity. I was jumping up and down, yelling at the screen saying, "NO! NO! NO! You can use Echo Caverns!" I guess now I know how sports fans feel. I'll be interested to hear what you think about that option after you take a look at the board position again.

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After watching these games and the play of this TinyGrimes fellow, what do people consider a "top level opponent?"

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Threepio said:

After watching these games and the play of this TinyGrimes fellow, what do people consider a "top level opponent?"

It sounds to me like you're being condecsending and trying to get people all riled up. If that's the case, why don't you try playing against him while streaming the game over Skype and see how you do? Talking through all your actions is really different, especially when you're trying to explain to the viewers what's going on without revealing to your opponent what's happening.  Also, TinyGrimes appears to be part of a solid play group. He plays most of his games in person, I believe. Switching to OCTGN, it's easy to miss certain cards and such. Assuming that you are trying to troll, the assumption one would make is that you posted this because you think you're better. Now that you've made this post, I'd say you need to put  that to the test. Play someone on OCTGN and stream the game live while explaining your actions to others. "Then, and only then, a Jedi will you be." You're not gonna gain any prestige by tearing others down with words alone.

If this is an honest question, I'd say a top level opponent is one who really understands the game and can make use of any synergy available to him (or her). However, you can be the best analytical mind out there and still lose because at the end of the day, this is a card game and luck of the draw can kill you. Also, being a top level player doesn't mean you always win. You've gotta try new decks out so you don't stagnate and those trials aren't always going to end well. Another angle is that a top level player is one who plays his best when it really counts (i.e. tournaments). It's a fallacy, in my opinion, to imply that TinyGrimes is not a top level player just because he lost a few games. I think with time we'll see him get used to playing while streaming. [And if your post really was an honest question, it's probably best to leave out phrases like "this TinyGrimes fellow."]

In closing, why am I defending TinyGrimes? I don't know him personally. I have nothing to gain from supporting him, even if he's lost a couple games. But he's taken a risk by putting himself out there and providing a neat video service to the community. I think there is enough of hate, strife, bickering, and flat-out meanness in the world today. We don't need to bring that into gaming. What does it do for the community? How is that helping anyone or improving anyone's game? Analyzing plays, pointing out misplays or alterative plays -- these things help the community. These are why the videos are presented to us. Gaming is supposed to be about fun. I like to win, but at the end of the day, I play to have fun. It will be a sad day if the SW:TCG community loses sight of that.

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Right now, I think the only way to guage top level talent is regional wins and top 4 regional finishes. Tiny won a regional and has shown on his stream that he is a pretty good player. Has he mde mistakes, yes, but as I know from experience when you are filming/streaming you make stupid mistakes because 100% of your focus is not on the game. 

If you think Top Level talent is the 8 best in the world then we wont know who that is until Nationals and Worlds.  I would say anyone that can make the Top 8 of either one of those tournaments is a good player, most likely a top level talent. 

Anyone, myself included, who puts a video/stream out there has to be ready for the added scrutiny of the players that analyze your games. People who watch these videos/streams should also be aware that mistakes are going to happen while the players get used to doing both. The streams are probably going to be a little worse, just because its live and the skill level of both players isn't necessarily going to be at the same level. You can see that in a lot of Tiny's earlier streams, he was blowing out his opponents by good play and superior draws. 

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My post was half serious and half trolling.  I thought it was funny that Tiny would only accept challenges from "top level opponents" in a game that isn't real diverse and has had only a handful of tournaments that have topped 30+ participants.  I hope people aren't discouraged from participating because they haven't won a 8 person tournament that was called a "regional."

Like you, I want everyone to have fun and feel accepted in the community.  I respect what Tiny does, but to create a caste system for this card game is a bit ridiculous. 

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Threepio said:

My post was half serious and half trolling.  I thought it was funny that Tiny would only accept challenges from "top level opponents" in a game that isn't real diverse and has had only a handful of tournaments that have topped 30+ participants.  I hope people aren't discouraged from participating because they haven't won a 8 person tournament that was called a "regional."

Like you, I want everyone to have fun and feel accepted in the community.  I respect what Tiny does, but to create a caste system for this card game is a bit ridiculous. 

 

There is nothing wrong with wanting to play good players.  It makes the stream better, makes Tiny better and can make players that watch better. You don't get better by playing newer/less experienced players. 

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I would submit that even regional wins doesn't mean a whole lot. I won first place at my first regional out of 17 people. Today I was 10th of 18. There are so many reasons for losing a game. Draw has a lot to do with it. So does the general skill level of the people at the tournament. It also has to do with how strict you play. Some people are very strict about letting a Guardian of the Peace use shielding after defenders are declared. Others just let it go. For my part, I just feel like such a jerk if I don't let them have it. I had an opponent who consistently drew for Counsel only after I declared my balance phase, declared refresh, refreshed, and drew my cards. I may or may not have won if I didn't let him do that (actually, edge battles would have been so much easier since he had two Counsels, if I recall correctly), but I just didn't want to turn this game into a petty-nit-picker contest.

In any case, there is a lot of variation in each tournament so I doubt even tournaments can tell you who is number one. I think you can get a feel for bins of skill, but that's about it. Still, that's the best we've got.

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I think a regional win means you are at least good enough, top level talent IDK. I have watched Tiny's stream and he isn't the best player I have seen but I would classify him as a good player. I have played in 3 regionals and won 2 of them and finished 3rd in another, the rest of Top Tier has 1 regional win each and we have usually swept the top 4, except for this eveing we took top 3 and 5th. I think if players are consistently making top 4 or winning reagionals then there is more at play than "varaition." At some point you have to concede that a player is good when he puts up consistent results.  

I am fortunate that I play with 3 other good players, 2 of which are exceptional. 

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I'll echo the sentiment that I usually look for the best players I can for the stream is because I'm intending it as a tool for the community. Watching me beat up on less experienced players isn't as helpful. Having said that, I play plenty of less experienced players, so you don't have to worry about me being elitist. If it appears that way, it's for the good of others. However, I would add, if you want to do some serious testing you should be seeking out the best players you can find. As I've said many times to many players, the best way to learn is to lose.

As far as my own skill is concerned, I don't make any claims either way. I will say I feel like I play about 60% of my skill on the stream. I'm spending a lot of energy on attempting to both interact with those in the chat lobby and providing useful commentary. But I have thick skin (as anyone who makes their game public should) so feel free to criticize my play. In fact, I think talking about strategic errors you see in my games are good learning tools for the community. 

In short, I hope you enjoy the stream and I'll continue to try to find the best opponents I can while not excluding people who want to be on it. If people are finding it not worth watching due to play errors please do say so as my goal is to provide a tool and not waste your time.

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1. @ Tiny, I wouldn’t worry about narrating and playing if anything it will make you a better player – able to multitask and deal with pressure.  Everyone is going to make mistakes, its more about how you play back from them then making them in the first place alot of actions start as pure sweetness then a twist of fate, heat of battle, or ackbar later it looks like a fools errand.  Hindsight is 20/20 and so is speciation. 

2. Confidence can appear as condescension – While I find it irritating that Tiny names every single deck on the podcast I listen to it because I enjoy it, I don’t have to if I stop enjoying it.  I would look at this stream the same way.  What I think tiny is really doing here is opening the community up to an expectation of more competitive play.  I know netrunner players who play 15-20 games a day on octgn to practice for worlds Tiny streaming is not a way for him to “show off” im sure it does not make it easier or more fun.  It’s a way to educate and help a lot of us get better, some of us play in smaller metas then Tiny and Ben, we might not know all their tricks by Tiny streaming is a way of sharing game play tips and extending the reach of the podcast so we can see what he is talking about, its simply more community interaction and will really excite a lot of players into playing on a higher level.

3.  Streaming, and watching replays is a good way to practice Star Wars, which seems to me is a game about luck and skill more then deck building (this factors into the luck though) Watching a player work through bad hands in ways you would not is how you learn to play.

Granted, when you host a podcast and run a stream your opening yourself up to feedback and we shouldent jump on people for asking "what does skilled mean to tiny?"

toodles

magni

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