A Doubt with the Arborec Racial rules.

[Mentak lagarto 0]

Hello to everyone! Hope you can help me with a doubt we had last weekend.

We've been playing TI last saturday when a conflict appears among us. The argument  was about the built capacity of the arborec ground forces, and its restriction about building PDS. On the one hand, in the FAQ's we can read that the arborec can build SHIPS with their GF units, but in the other hand, in the rulebook there are a restriction about building a PDS (not a ship) in system without Space docks. As a consequence, we had a very long and exhausting dispute.

 

In order to that, this is my question:

- Does the Arborec ground forces count as a Space Dock in every building cases?. Despite of the Production Card, wich is consigned on the FAQ's already.

- Could I build a PDS on a System not containing a Space Dock?.

 

 

Thank all of you for your help.

[Nehkrimah 0]

The Arborec GF have a build capacity of 1, and that can be used on any unit a Space Dock can build.

Ground Forces and PDS can only be placed on the planet of the producing Space Dock, in this case that would be the planet that each GF is on.

There is no rule about producing PDS in a system without SD, only on a planet without a SD.

- Does the Arborec ground forces count as a Space Dock in every building cases?. Despite of the Production Card, wich is consigned on the FAQ's already.

The Arborec Ground forces never count as a Space Dock, they can just produce the same units in the same circumstances as a Space Dock can, so for instance, they cannot use any of the production techs that reference Space Docks, (Like Enviro Compensator or Sarween Tools). I feel the Integrated economy wouldn't be broken with Arborec, but RAW, it wouldn't work with their GF building.

- Could I build a PDS on a System not containing a Space Dock?

Yes, The Arborec could build a PDS in a system that didn't contain a Space Dock, but the planet the PDS is produced on would need to have 1 GF per PDS produced on that planet (With the usual maximum of 2 PDS per planet)

[Phoenixx 1]

Nehkrimah said:

The Arborec GF have a build capacity of 1, and that can be used on any unit a Space Dock can build.

 

except additional GF - Arborec can only build those at an existing Space Dock.

[Fnoffen 96]

Phoenixx said:

Nehkrimah said:

The Arborec GF have a build capacity of 1, and that can be used on any unit a Space Dock can build.

 

except additional GF - Arborec can only build those at an existing Space Dock.

I believe it's the other way around if memory serves. GFs are the one unit the Arborec Space Docks can't build.

[Steve-O 473]

Fnoffen said:

I believe it's the other way around if memory serves. GFs are the one unit the Arborec Space Docks can't build.

If that's true, then what happens if the Arborec player loses all of his GF currently on the board?  He can never build GF again?

[Nehkrimah 0]

The Arborec Flagship can also produce GF, but it is definately possible to lose all your GF, not have enough resources for the Flagship and be unable to produce GF from then on.

[Fnoffen 96]

Steve-O said:

Fnoffen said:

I believe it's the other way around if memory serves. GFs are the one unit the Arborec Space Docks can't build.

If that's true, then what happens if the Arborec player loses all of his GF currently on the board?  He can never build GF again?

One might think so. However, the Arborecs third racial ability adresses this quite nicely: "At the start of the Status Phase, place 1 Ground Force on one planet you control." Also: memory did serve. The Arborecs first racial is as follows: "You may not build Ground Forces with your Space Docks."

[Kouteki 0]

Also note that each Arborec ground force can produce only one ground force for 1 resource (due to their production capacity). If you research their racial tech that increases their capacity by 1, you can produce two ground forces for 1 resource.

 

Once planted planetside Arborec become virtually impossible to root out

[desepchun 0]

Yeah, the Arborec are easily one of strongest invasion forces in the game across all expansions. Of course their racial trait makes them a great target for the Nekro.

[Fnoffen 96]

Yeah, the Arborec are easily one of strongest invasion forces in the game across all expansions. Of course their racial trait makes them a great target for the Nekro.

How so? If you mean the racial tech that increase the build capacity of the Arborec GF's it's off limits to the Necrovirus since they may not copy a racial tech that modifies a racial ability.

[Bowoodstock 16]

You could feasibly steal bioplasmosis, the one that lets you move ground forces around.  Could be semi useful, if you need a chance to get someone to stop an invasion, and steal a tech at the same time.  There is also the fact that they start with anti-mass and stasis caps, something nekro does not start with, and of course ANY battle you can go into with the ability to gain something is a good thing.

[Fnoffen 96]

True.

[freakgib 1]

i have a question if the Arborec have 1 ground force on a planet they can produce 1 unit when building

what happens if they have more GF on a planet can they then also produce more units when building

or stil just 1 and need to get a tech to increase production.

[Fnoffen 96]

i have a question if the Arborec have 1 ground force on a planet they can produce 1 unit when building

what happens if they have more GF on a planet can they then also produce more units when building

or stil just 1 and need to get a tech to increase production.

The Arborec may produce 1 unit (piece of plastic) for each GF (Ground Force) they have in a system provided those GFs did not move during the activation. The GFs may produce 2 units each if the prerequisite racial tech has been researched.

[Campbellitus 0]

So, it's 7am and I'm looking over my TI stuff. Massive discovery ensued: Is it just my flawed understanding of the rules? Or is Transit Diodes as absolutely broken with the Arborec as I'm seeing?

 

EXAMPLE: Arborec has Transit Diodes and uses a CC to build in one of their systems. After they finish building, (we'll say they built more GF) they use the diodes to move 4 GF from that system to another system with a planet they control which has not been activated yet. Then they activate that system and build more stuff. (Let's say GF again.) Then, assuming they have the CC to keep going, they continue to do this until they run out of either CC or planets.

 

It's not a super game changer, even with Spore Accelerator, but is that not how Transit Diodes would function with them? It would certainly speed up their ability to create hordes...

 

ADDED BONUS: If this does work as I'm envisioning, it's only 3 techs from Arborec's starting lineup to get there!

[Steve-O 473]

EXAMPLE: Arborec has Transit Diodes and uses a CC to build in one of their systems. After they finish building, (we'll say they built more GF) they use the diodes to move 4 GF from that system to another system with a planet they control which has not been activated yet. Then they activate that system and build more stuff. (Let's say GF again.) Then, assuming they have the CC to keep going, they continue to do this until they run out of either CC or planets.

Seems legit to me.

Keep in mind that this is costing the player 2 CCs and 2 Actions per cycle - Transit Diodes costs an action to use and a CC from Strategy Allocation. Building requires him to activate the new system for 1 CC and an action. Plus whatever resources he's spending to build.

So it's cool, but not broken IMHO.

A player only gets 2 CCs for free per turn, which means realistically the player can only do this once per Round anyway, unless he invests time and effort in getting more CCs via Logistics or such. And he can only spread to planets he controls, so in order to actually expand his empire, he still needs to do it the old fashioned way.

But it does sound like a good way to make sure the Back 40 stays well guarded.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Steve-O

[Forgottenlore 9,838]

Yeah, I agree. I don't have the cards in front of me to double check but it sounds doable, and not particularly overpowered given the costs.

Probably lots of fun though.

[Campbellitus 0]

Yeah, 'broken' is probably too strong a word in hindsight. What I'm picturing is that the Arborec can use this to stall out if there comes a round where they feel the need to stall. They likely couldn't outlast Yssaril, but they could outlast almost anyone else.

 

As for the CC, planning this type of tactic would make Leadership a stellar idea (pun intended.) It would also allow them to 'ninja' a defense force on an unprotected flank if they saw a neighbour getting ideas. Overall, Transit Diodes combined with the Arborec racial just seems to grant them super flexibility, which is an enviable trait.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Campbellitus

[Steve-O 473]

Yeah, 'broken' is probably too strong a word in hindsight. What I'm picturing is that the Arborec can use this to stall out if there comes a round where they feel the need to stall. They likely couldn't outlast Yssaril, but they could outlast almost anyone else.

They definitely can't outlast Yssaril with this, and as for outlasting anyone else, I'm doubtful of the value it would provide anyway.

It's 2 actions worth of stalling, assuming they can afford to spend the CCs on non-critical activities. 2 stalling actions are not that difficult to put together for most races. Also, usually when people are looking to stall, they're looking for actions that don't cost CCs so they can save their CCs for the important moves later. If Yssaril needed to spend a CC per skip action, they wouldn't be nearly as awesome as they are.

I see this more as a cool combo power that can come in handy for situations such as your "ninja defense" scenario. Other races certainly have combos on par with that, though, so it's not a big deal.

[Campbellitus 0]

More questions about the Arborec: if a space dock of mine is blockaded, can my ground forces in the same system still build ships and initiate a space battle?

 

Can the Arborec flagship build ground forces?

 

If you have Dacxive Animators (or the one that allows you to rebuild fallen GF on your homeworld, in case I got the name wrong) and are fighting on your home world, after the battle (assuming you win) can you build units with the ground forces that were resurrected during the fight?

 

All of these questions came up during a 12 hr game I just finished. Definitive answers are sought. Best guesses will be appreciated.

[Forgottenlore 9,838]

Don't have any of the rules actually in front of me to check, but my opinions/guesses are

Pretty sure the GFs would be blockaded exactly the same as the space dock is.

I would think the flagship could. Does its ability say to treat it like a space dock, or just that it has a production capacity?

For the animators, I would think not. Just for balance and logic issues if nothing else.

[sigmazero13 102]

RE: Blockade - I would say no, as you build with your GFs following the normal rules for Space Docks.  The overall idea is you can't build ships if there are any enemy ships present (with the exception of an Action Card which specifically allows otherwise).

 

RE: Flagship - Yes, only the Space Docks are specifically prohibited from building GFs.  The Flagship is not a space dock.

 

RE: Tech (it's Gen Synthesis  you are thinking of, Dacxive revives units on the same planet the fighting happened after the battle) - That's a toughie, I don't know if there's an official answer.  Technically speaking it never moved, as it's placed on the home planet instead of dying, but it was already there.  However, I would probably say "no", if it were up to me.