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Ruvion

more season in Fire and Ice

28 posts in this topic

I really like the art on Ellaria too.

Song of Fire seems odd… with the current card pool, only Lanni running GTM, PC and Tommen seems likely to be able to take advantage of it, so I guess we'll probably see some Seasonal draw cards in the cycle. 

An odd question about Green Dream though… I kind of laughed at the fact that you could use it to put Summer (Core) in your hand if for some reason you were playing that card (CD Brann + Direwolves or something, who knows) too bad he doesnt actually have self-referential text, but then this occurred to me - does flavor text count as part of the text box?  There's no reason it doesnt as far as I know, so will someone find some screwy cards to search for that have "winter" or "summer" in the flavor text?

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Well, the FAQ does seem to define flavor text as being part of the text box:

 

(3.7) Card Abilities
"Card abilities" (i.e. "Character ability," "Location ability," or "Attachment ability") refers to anything in a card's text box, except for traits, keywords, and flavor text. "Card abilities" also refers to any abilities (again, keywords and traits are excluded) gained by card effects
 
Whether they'll allow Green Dream to search based on flavor text, there'll probably need to be an official word from FFG.
 
I also want to know about words that contain "Summer" or "Winter;" can Green Dream fetch Knight of Summerhall or Gates of Winterfell? Probably not.

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Even limiting it to whole words, it still allows searching for Summer (Bran's direwolf), Summer Sea or Summer Sea Corsair (all of which are self-refential and have nothing to do with seasons).

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It says in the "Text Box", so titles wouldn't count.  Flavor text is iffy though, because it is in the text box.

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It says in the "Text Box", so titles wouldn't count.  Flavor text is iffy though, because it is in the text box.

 

What Khudzlin is saying is that their title is referenced in their text box, so it actually does say "Summer" in the text box.

 

It would be interesting to know if "summer" or "winter" is in the flavor text of any card. That would just be funny to use Green Dream that way.

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As of right now, flavor text can be used as part of the Green Dream search effect.  The FAQ says flavor text is part of the text box.  I understand that it's weird and some want to get clarity, but it is supported by the rules based on Green Dream's effect.

 

EDIT:  Is the illustrator and copywrite part of the text box?   ;)   Could have an illustrator with Summer or Winter in their name. 

Edited by Bomb

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I don't really see the problem with this card using flavor text, so I don't know why there is a sarcastic QA comment.  It's certainly an interesting function of the card assuming there are some decent cards with Summer/Winter in the flavor text.

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Dont worry bomb its just mdc is an azz so has to bash people whenever he can, when he has no idea if the intent of the card was to include flavor text or not.  ps: you should add that comment to readit mdc

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Dont worry bomb its just mdc is an azz so has to bash people whenever he can, when he has no idea if the intent of the card was to include flavor text or not.  ps: you should add that comment to readit mdc

 

it amuses me that matt and i generally spew the same type of rhetoric yet people seem to laugh me off while simultaneously getting infuriated by him.

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The difference is that you are actually informed (usually) about what you post about Dennis, whereas Mdc seems to prefer acting like he knows what he's talking about while in reality he is inaccurate quite frequently (if I were Ktom he'd drive me away from the rules forums too!).

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This is the kind of ambiguity on card effects that really irks me. That there is even a discussion about whether flavor text, which while part of the text box, has no bearing to any gameplay elements at all, can be used by a card like Green Dreams is kind of ridiculous. It just seems like yet another case of FFG printing a card where an extra few words could clarify so much.

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Come on guys... You know flavor text doesn't count here.  If I were an FFG employee I would have quit or killed myself by now due to a community of pedantic douchenozzles.  I mean seriously, when has flavor text ever done anything?  And the more they clarify--the more you want clarified.  It is like a crack fiend saying nah, just one more hit, I swear it this time.

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I agree, it seems a group of players has lost all their common sense and just like to b&^% about FFG "QA team".   The QA group as well as the developers do a great job with this game and work very hard to make it great, stop your crying please.

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@dcdennis - People take me seriously and don't take you seriously, or that's my guess. Of course I AM serious about most of this stuff, even when I make jokes. I never really get that vibe when I read your posts. I feel like most of your posts are light-hearted whereas I'm super-critical of the game's flaws.

 

@Bomb - You're right. It could be intentional, but it doesn't really make sense does it? What if Westeros Bleeds had flavor text that ended in "an excerpt from The Summer War". Would it make sense that you could search for Westeros Bleeds with Green Dream. There is a massive thematic disconnect and the card only limits design space, which is a serious problem they keep running into as they make more cards. This card basically creates a restriction on the designers "Well if I don't want this card to be searchable by Green Dream I can't include the words Summer or Winter on it." And that's just card design. What about the flavor text guy? What if the flavor text guy is like "OMG I HAVE THE PERFECT QUOTE FOR THIS!!!!" and then lo and behond it gets missed in QA and now Westeros Bleeds is searchable with this (and therefore recurrable with Galbert Glover). There's just potential shenanigans all over from funky designs like this. It's a great idea, but probably needs better execution.

 

@kr4ng - While I understand your argument, the quality of this game is the equivalent of releasing a video game with bugs. It just so happens that we can "mod" this game to make it playable (think Skyrim). If this were a video game, it would probably be unplayable due to bugs or play different than the "mods" we're using to play it. Going back to Skyrim, that game is regarded as a fun, but not really good game. It got a 40/40 from Famitsu and yet there are any number of things that should've prevented it from getting a perfect score, all of which were bugs due to either bad QA, not caring, or not being able to fix the bug. I guarantee you will find lots of people that love Skyrim, but that does not mean it is not flawed. It really is the best comparison for this game. A beloved game that is so rampant with flaws that people who are looking for a polished experience avoid it like the plague. It's horribly unpolished and jarring when you run up against the bugs (and you will).

 

Also, go visit the World of Warcraft or League of Legends boards to see what true douchebaggery is. It probably won't take you long to find it.

 

The real reason I do this is because people always seem to want to grow the community and yet aren't willing to accept that the game is not polished enough for the community to grow. There is simply not that much of a reason for a new player to pick this game over any number of available games out there. Either accept that this community will not grow due to it's lack of broader appeal or don't complain when people complain about the lack of polish. The only way this community will grow is if people feel they are missing something by not playing it. I doubt the average gamer even knows it exists if they don't know about the show.

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I'm not trying to be a pedant.  I'm just trying not to make a designer's intent assumption for this card just because it seems stupid.  I think lots of effects have stupid roundabouts and weird ways to get something you want, but that is because they are inline with the rules.

 

The question is, based on Green Dreams current text, why wouldn't you count flavor text as part of the text box?  Because it's dumb and hard to believe it could be?  I think that, based on the current rules and that flavor text being part of the text box, it currently counts even though it is retarded.

 

TL;DR -

Based on the rules, I can't think of a reason it wouldn't include flavor text except that it is ******* retarded.

mdc273 likes this

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So are there actually any cards with the words Summer or Winter in its flavor text?  Or is this another non-issue that people are making up as an actual issue?

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macd all games have a few mistakes here and their...you have to stop focusing on them and just love the game. I have not once heard anyone say i am not playing agot cause its not polished enough. Your example is purely BS. Sorry but its true you have to just stop being such a negative person and look at the great parts of this game. Stop going into the world of crazy and like Crevic says how many cards have summer or winter in their flavor text and would it matter if anyone searched on them? really? how would this stop people from playing? extrem much man....

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PS: I like 90% of others i have talked to say things like o thats just a macd post forget about it he is full of bs....but i am tierd of you bashing this game...you should go play somethign else man its obvious this is not polished enough for you..

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I don't know much about the level of polish this game actually has in comparison to other card games...sure it ain't perfect and sure it could use more proof reading (Jaqen the reprint I'm looking at you!), but for me personally it's the great mechanics like the plots among other things that puts it over the top. :D

Edited by Ruvion

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That's because the people that care enough to post on these forums care about the game. Here is a post from BGG regarding a new player trying to learn the game:

 

"Unfortunately, this is a game where you can read the rulebook 20 times and still barely get it. In fact I may have gone through it that many times. It's just. That. Bad. I had to print and read the errata to get better ideas about how the game works, and learn about concepts like the state of "moribund" that are never mentioned in the rulebook."

 

Full Thread

 

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. That guy admitted he was fairly well versed in MtG as well.

 

Or a better example, here is a Reddit thread where only two people recommend AGoT LCG as their first choice for an LCG/card based game and the upvote breakdown is something like this:

 

Netrunner - 24

LotR - 13

Star Wars - 9

AGoT - 4

Race for the Galaxy - 3

Summoner Wars - 3

Space Hulk - 1

 

[WSIG] Looking to try my first LCG / card-based tabletop game.

 

AGoT appears to be getting 1/8th the recommendations of Netrunner, 1/3 the recommendations of LotR, and 1/2 the recommendations of Star Wars. This was a clearly a potential, and possibly even interested, customer that was steered away from the game by what should represent a totally neutral community (/r/boardgames). 3 other LCGs were recommended over AGoT. This is even with mostly positive reviews on BGG for AGoT.

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I like how the top 3 games on that list are relatively new(LotR is only a hair over 2 years since being released).  Their card pools aren't that large so the learning curve to play is significantly less of a task.  Their FAQs are only a few pages long and as their card pools grow large and more mechanics are created(assuming this will be true), there will be more pages added to the FAQ and more clarifications required.

 

You know what's pretty cool about buying a new car? All you really need to do is drive it off the lot and you're all set.  The vehicle's manual is generally all you need to learn about the car.

 

You know what sucks about buying a used car? There's normally a lot of catchup you need to do and you learn about what kind of preventative maintenance and work that needs to be done to it by driving it.  Sometimes the car doesn't have original parts or has some patchwork done to it by any previous owner.  You have a lot more to learn about the car and may need to rely on trial and error or have the mechanic inspect it so he can teach you more about the car.  The CarFax report on this car is much larger, but it is important to know where the car has been.

 

In my opinion it is very hard to compare AGoT to the games that were voted above it.  LotR is a completely different LCG where it is building a deck against a story or mission, so that does not even compare to the other 3 in the top 4.  Star Wars and Netrunner are different, but the complaint against AGoT is there is too much **** to learn.  Yeah, well, that's because after 5 years of new mechanics cards, the FAQ gets pretty full. 

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