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HR Crowley

Warlock Cave and Hag

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If one has the hag when one lands on the Warlock Cave and the quest is to 'discard' (I like sacrifice better, but to each their own...) a follower is the Hag eligible? Or can she only be dealt with with the mystic?

And one other Q; when one lands on the Warlock Cave and a quest is generated if that player has the item required (Follower, Gold, etc.) can that player immediately discard (or whatever the case is) the item to complete that quest thusly procuring a fabled 'Talisman'?

Thank you all in advance for your help and time.

Regards,
HR Crowley

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HR Crowley said:

If one has the hag when one lands on the Warlock Cave and the quest is to 'discard' (I like sacrifice better, but to each their own...) a follower is the Hag eligible? Or can she only be dealt with with the mystic?

And one other Q; when one lands on the Warlock Cave and a quest is generated if that player has the item required (Follower, Gold, etc.) can that player immediately discard (or whatever the case is) the item to complete that quest thusly procuring a fabled 'Talisman'?

Thank you all in advance for your help and time.

Regards,
HR Crowley

No. The Hag may only be lost if you satisfy the text on the card or an instruction forces you lose the Hag. You cannot choose to lose her yourself.

You must immediately complete the quest if you are able to do so.

Ell.

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talismanamsilat said:

HR Crowley said:

 

If one has the hag when one lands on the Warlock Cave and the quest is to 'discard' (I like sacrifice better, but to each their own...) a follower is the Hag eligible? Or can she only be dealt with with the mystic?

And one other Q; when one lands on the Warlock Cave and a quest is generated if that player has the item required (Follower, Gold, etc.) can that player immediately discard (or whatever the case is) the item to complete that quest thusly procuring a fabled 'Talisman'?

Thank you all in advance for your help and time.

Regards,
HR Crowley

 

 

No. The Hag may only be lost if you satisfy the text on the card or an instruction forces you lose the Hag. You cannot choose to lose her yourself.

You must immediately complete the quest if you are able to do so.

Ell.

So if the reaper or other place or card says you lose a follower, then you can't choose the hag?

Does this also aply for the jester?

 

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talismanamsilat said:

Example: The Chasm or Reaper may force you to lose the Hag, but you cannot voluntarily choose to sacrifice the Hag at the Vampire's Tower or Warlock's Cave.

Ell.

I understand.

Then this will aply for the jester too, because you may not ditch him and you only lose him if you visit the tavern.

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talismanamsilat said:

Example: The Chasm or Reaper may force you to lose the Hag, but you cannot voluntarily choose to sacrifice the Hag at the Vampire's Tower or Warlock's Cave.

Ell.

To sort the matter once and for all: can you voluntarily choose to take Jester, Hag and Poltergeist Followers (e.g. with Mesmerism or Beguile Ability)?

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talismanamsilat said:

Yes of course you can if you wish, as they all have the word "Follower" printed on their cards.

Ell.

To summarize:

a. Any effect that forces you to lose Followers is applicable to "bad Followers" such as Poltergeist, Hag and Jester.

b.Any effect that requires to discard Followers in order to gain/prevent something is NOT applicable to "bad Followers" such as Poltergeist, Hag and Jester.

c.Any effect that you may use on other Characters' Followers is also applicable to "bad Followers" such as Poltergeist, Hag and Jester.

The Werewolf Adventure Card goes under category "a" and his an alternative way to get rid of these Bad Followers, especially useful with the Hag (100% chance of getting rid of her).

 

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The_Warlock said:

talismanamsilat said:

 

Yes of course you can if you wish, as they all have the word "Follower" printed on their cards.

Ell.

 

 

To summarize:

a. Any effect that forces you to lose Followers is applicable to "bad Followers" such as Poltergeist, Hag and Jester.

b.Any effect that requires to discard Followers in order to gain/prevent something is NOT applicable to "bad Followers" such as Poltergeist, Hag and Jester.

c.Any effect that you may use on other Characters' Followers is also applicable to "bad Followers" such as Poltergeist, Hag and Jester.

The Werewolf Adventure Card goes under category "a" and his an alternative way to get rid of these Bad Followers, especially useful with the Hag (100% chance of getting rid of her).

 

Just a quick voice playing Devil's advocate, but the Warlock's Cave is not optional.  You must complete the quest if you are able to do so.  At least it said that in 4th edition.  If the quest is "discard a follower" and all you have is a hag, I don't see how that's a player's choice.  It is a follower and there is nothing in the rules or card text to suggest otherwise.

Additionally, even the "bad" followers have good uses.  Someone with the Jester may cast slow motion when next to an opponent to foist the jester upon a weaker character.  The Old Hag prevents you from getting the Jester or Poltergeist.  The poltergeist is the best follower in the game.  If you hit Fountain of Wisdom (or the other 3 pools, or the cave near an academy, etc.), you're basically going to win if you have the poltergeist.  Not to mention that Healer+Non-bad card+Poltergeist (or good character at the Chapel+card+poltergeist) results in a standoff or a win if someone is at the Crown, preventing an otherwise painful loss.  Additionally, the Fiend Slayer is sometimes a terrible follower, but isn't on your list.  Often I've drawn a wand or something only to then be forced into drawing a second card and pulling "Demon" or somesuch.  Now I lost a life instead of gaining the game's best item, thanks to a "good" follower.

I think it's a bit arbitrary to pick out some followers for special rules just because an older edition of the game (which many new players have never seen) saw those followers as bad.  She may not taste ideal, but if the Vampires will eat my stone Colossus, there's no way they're passing up a delicious hag.

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librarycharlie said:

 

 

 

Just a quick voice playing Devil's advocate, but the Warlock's Cave is not optional.  You must complete the quest if you are able to do so.  At least it said that in 4th edition.  If the quest is "discard a follower" and all you have is a hag, I don't see how that's a player's choice.  It is a follower and there is nothing in the rules or card text to suggest otherwise.

[...]

I think it's a bit arbitrary to pick out some followers for special rules just because an older edition of the game (which many new players have never seen) saw those followers as bad.  She may not taste ideal, but if the Vampires will eat my stone Colossus, there's no way they're passing up a delicious hag.

It looks like there will always be someone that complains with a ruling that's not consistent with the base system. Hag, Jester and Poltergeist should have been kept as Events that became Followers, like in the past. Now it's difficult to make things clear.

Warlock's Cave is an option, as you might land on another space instead, take a different quest if you choose them freely, or take no quest at all. If you take/receive the order to discard a Follower, you won't be able to complete your quest if you only have the Hag. You can't ditch her and you can't voluntarily sacrifice her.The reason is: Hag and similar Followers have specific rules to get rid of 'em and they've been designed to be a penalty also in revised 4th edition. They surely are, even though you may find some situations when they are useful, especially Poltergeist; other Followers are not so funny to have... Hag prevents you from getting Jester & Poltergeist, but she makes you discard all Followers and prevents you from having all the useful guys and girls in the deck. I don't see the advantage, sorry.

If game designers say that they turned Hag, Poltergeist and Jester into real Followers to make them easier to discard, so be it. But talismanamsilat decided to make a special rule for them (they're special indeed) and I agree.

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The answers was pretty clear and i agree with it but just to be 100% clear.....

If i draw the Hag and i have a mule and poltergeist i discard both of them correct? Hag force me to discard all followers so poltergeist could be in that list, and "discard" mean drop it where you are or place it in adventure cards discard pile? (i hope this question sound enough english sad.gif )

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Andraax said:

 

If i draw the Hag and i have a mule and poltergeist i discard both of them correct?

 

Yes, correct.

Andraax said:

Hag force me to discard all followers so poltergeist could be in that list, and "discard" mean drop it where you are or place it in adventure cards discard pile? (i hope this question sound enough english sad.gif )

 

 

 

To discard means to put your Followers on the discard pile.

I hate the Hag, she made me lose a couple of games. It is only one card in a deck of 194!

 

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TALISMAN is now available as an app on numerous mobile devices, just search "Talisman Prologue". I think it's convenient for play through with computer would deal most of the rules.

 

So, about Warlock's Cave Quest and Hag I have tested on my iPhone and I'm sure I CAN deliver the Hag to complete quest.

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a. Any effect that forces you to lose Followers is applicable to "bad Followers" such as Poltergeist, Hag and Jester.

 

I agree, but what if a follower is to be discarded/killed at random (i.e. rolling a 1 when encountering the cyclops?)?

 

Me and my friends use the suggestions in the FAQs document (having them facedown, shuffling them and having another player select a card; or rolling a die if there are six cards or less). Technically, you're not choosing but I want to make sure if this is an acceptable way of getting rid of a bad follower.

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a. Any effect that forces you to lose Followers is applicable to "bad Followers" such as Poltergeist, Hag and Jester.

 

I agree, but what if a follower is to be discarded/killed at random (i.e. rolling a 1 when encountering the cyclops?)?

 

Me and my friends use the suggestions in the FAQs document (having them facedown, shuffling them and having another player select a card; or rolling a die if there are six cards or less). Technically, you're not choosing but I want to make sure if this is an acceptable way of getting rid of a bad follower.

 

 

It is.

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According to Revised 4th Ed. Rules, Followers with the wording, "You must take [this follower]," cannot be ditched on a space in the same way you may ditch an Object. The Revised 4th Ed. does not distinguish between "good" and "bad" followers, only those which you must take or may choose to take. Those you must take just have the one exception: you can't ditch them as you would an Object.

Any other effect that applies to Followers also applies to these Followers. This includes the Chasm, Warlock's Cave, and Gladiator's ability. The only requirement is the card type "Follower." This may be in contrast to the rules of the 2nd Ed., but it's the current rules. The Talisman Digital Edition also plays this way.

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This is sort of related... Can the alchemist bust the loadstone himself rather than going to the city, likewise, can be sack any cursed objects for good rather than doing what the card says?

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This is sort of related... Can the alchemist bust the loadstone himself rather than going to the city, likewise, can be sack any cursed objects for good rather than doing what the card says?

 

I remember a similar question was asked to FFG about the False Grail. The answer at the time was that it can be alchemised instead of following the instructions to get rid of it. Until a FAQ comes out to ratify or change this, this is how we play. This is in contradiction with the discussed ruling about Followers, so I hope that they will finally unify the answer.

 

So these cards can be turned into gold because they are Objects, by any of the available Alchemists (Spell, City, Follower, Character).

Edited by The_Warlock

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I would apply the same principles for bad followers for bad objects (you can only get rid of them by following the instructions on the card, or forced to discard them).

Really? I don't know if this is consistent with the way FFG is clarifying things. Based on their answers, the current rules seem to distinguish between objects and followers you "must" take and those you "may" take (rather than good or bad). Those you "may" take may be ditched at any time, and those that you "must" take cannot be ditched. However, any other method can work to get rid of them; so you can transmute an object you "must" take into gold, and you can push a follower you "must" take into the chasm (note I didn't say "good" or "bad").

 

To me this generalization seems to be consistent with the clarifications given by FFG (as The Warlock mentioned regarding the False Grail).

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therre are no "bad" followers or "bad" objects just followers with effects and objects with effects. if an action call for a discarding of a follower and the player has a choice in which one, then the player if free to choose any of their followers.

 

just because the hag states visit the mystic to get rid of the hag,  and can not ditch the card any other way,

 

ditch -ing card is placing them on the board on the space you are on, which is different to discard-ing them to the discard pile, different effects and triggers

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