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fayezm

Seeker of Slaanesh Threat Card Clarification

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This threat card says something along the lines of 'If you win, you may discard 1 corruption card. If you do not, gain 1 corruption card".

I interpreted this as if you win the battle, you have to discard one corruption card. If you choose not to (or if you have no corruption to discard), you must gain 1 corruption card.

Another one of the players claimed that it meant if you lose the battle, you draw 1 corruption card (in addition to losing 1 life). I countered that losing had no additional effect.

Any ideas?

 

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You always lose 1 life in battle when defeated , unless the card specifically says "instead of losing 1 Life"

For this monster, you gain a Corruption card, if  the result of your  battle  is a tie or a defeat. This is in addition to losing 1 Life,(in case of defeat) and regardless of whether you have other Corruption cards or not.

If YOU defeat this monster, you may discard one Corruption card of your choice, if you have any, and gain the monster as a trophy.

Note also that in case of defeat against multiple monsters in a single combat, you only lose 1 Life by default, but the special penalties inflicted by each monster are cumulative, so you suffer each one.

Same with victory in a battle against more than one monster- the rewards are cumulative as well.

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Hmm. The wording of the card does not make that entirely clear. It seems like the cards effect only come in to play when you win, as that is the first condition from which everything else flows.

I also seem to remember that some cards have explicit conditions for when you win and when you lose… this one doesn't.

Any one else have any input?

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The loss of a life is always implied in conjunction with the defeat clause, unless another penalty specifically excludes the loss of a life.

For instance, there's one Ork enemy in the deck, who has you losing 1 additional life unless you succeed in a test after being defeated.

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I'd actually go with both conditions being tied to winning the battle. Was just watching Lonesome Gamer's video series on Relic and he draw a Death Guard Plague Marine, which has a similar effect to the SoS, but it uses two sentences, one for if you lose, one for if you win. Since the Seekers only use a single sentence, I'd say there is no separate trigger for the two effect, both are used after winning the battle (could be a FFG mess up with the templating of course).

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If you win this battle, you may choose 1 of your Corruption cards and discrard it. If you do not, draw 1 Corruption card.
 
There are five possible interpretations:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A) if you win this battle, you may discard 1 of your corruption cards, but you must draw 1 corruption card if you don't have any corruption cards already (or don't want to discard any).
 
B) if you win this battle, you may discard 1 of your corruption cards, but you must draw 1 corruption card if you have at least one corruption card already and don't want to discard any.
 
C) if you win this battle, you may discard 1 of your corruption cards. If you lose or tie this battle, draw 1 corruption card (in addition to losing 1 life if the battle is lost).

 

D) if you win this battle, you may discard 1 of your corruption cards, but you must draw 1 corruption card if you don't have any corruption cards already (or don't want to discard any). If you lose or tie this battle, draw 1 corruption card (in addition to losing 1 life if the battle is lost).

 

E) if you win this battle, you may discard 1 of your corruption cards, but you must draw 1 corruption card if you have at least one corruption card already and don't want to discard any. If you lose or tie this battle, draw 1 corruption card (in addition to losing 1 life if the battle is lost).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 
Edited by mission

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This threat card says something along the lines of 'If you win, you may discard 1 corruption card. If you do not, gain 1 corruption card".

I interpreted this as if you win the battle, you have to discard one corruption card. If you choose not to (or if you have no corruption to discard), you must gain 1 corruption card.

Another one of the players claimed that it meant if you lose the battle, you draw 1 corruption card (in addition to losing 1 life). I countered that losing had no additional effect.

Any ideas?

 

To me the answer seems obvious: 

 

1) if you win, you can choose to discard a corruption card if you have one. If you have no corruption cards, you do not discard anything. If you have corruption cards but do not want to discard them, you are allowed.

 

You DO NOT pick a corruption card if you win and you have no corruption cards already. NOWHERE on the card does it say you can do that. You can only draw corruption cards when the card tells you to.

 

2) If you do not win: that means lose or tie, you must (no alternative) draw 1 corruption card.

 

The text is actually pretty clear. Losing a life is a separate step of its own. Lose battle and lose 1 life, tie and win, do not lose life (unless the card trumps the rulebook).

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2) If you do not win: that means lose or tie, you must (no alternative) draw 1 corruption card.

 

The text is actually pretty clear. Losing a life is a separate step of its own. Lose battle and lose 1 life, tie and win, do not lose life (unless the card trumps the rulebook).

 

I just don't see how you get draw 1 corruption if you lose from that wording, which only talks about winning. Like I said in my other post, there are Threat cards which split up the win and loss conditions, Seekers doesn't, so why would one consider the effects separate conditions on win or loss?

 

Plus, the card does tell you to draw a corruption card if you win, if you do not discard 1 corruption, you have to draw 1 corruption.

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I've clarified the options in my previous post.

here is the summary:

 

guillaumetexas votes for C)
fayezm voted for A) 

Not sure about Dam - but it's either A) or B)

my vote goes to B)

a friend of mine votes for C) saying it's obvious to him

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This is an interesting question, and one that needs to be put to the powers that be.

 

I see it as two definite interpretations -

 

If you win this battle, you may choose 1 of your Corruption cards and discard it. If you do not, draw 1 Corruption card.

 

Seems straight forward, but could mean either -

 

If you win this battle, you may choose 1 of your Corruption cards and discard it. If you do not (win the battle), draw 1 Corruption card.

 

(*This would be in addition to losing a life)

 

...or...

 

If you win this battle, you may choose 1 of your Corruption cards and discard it. If you do not (decide to discard 1 of your Corruption cards), draw 1 Corruption card.

 

(*This is a bonus for actually defeating this Enemy)

 

I think given that the powers of Chaos are rather tricksy, that the card might be dependent on whether you decide to discard the Corruption card. I think that way would be more thematic. Do I keep this rather cool benefit from that card, or do I risk another card towards my total?

 

However, it IS open to interpretation and needs clarification from FFG and perhaps a qualifying errata in any FAQ.

Edited by talismanisland

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I'm in the latter camp (of talismanisland's two options), mostly because many other Threat cards separate win and loss conditions completely. Would seem odd to have this one card where win and loss conditions are mixed into one effect.

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There is a Polish-language edition of Relic. I asked on the forums what is the Polish translation on that card, and they told me:

 

"Jeśli wygrasz tę walkę, możesz wybrać i odrzucić 1 ze swoich kart Spaczenia. Jeśli tego nie zrobisz, dobierz 1 kartę Spaczenia".

 

This is actually very funny, because it also can be interpreted two ways:

 

A) if you win this battle, you may discard 1 of your corruption cards, but you must draw 1 corruption card if you don't have any corruption cards already (or don't want to discard any).
 
B) if you win this battle, you may discard 1 of your corruption cards, but you must draw 1 corruption card if you have at least one corruption card already and don't want to discard any.

 

It implies that options C) D) and E) are not valid at all (at least in the Polish edition).

However, there also seems to be a general consensus (on the Polish forum) that option A) is valid!

 

Edited by mission

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Given that the Polish consensus is based on a direct translation of text which itself is not actually clear in English, the only thing to do would be to ask via the FAQ page as suggested.

 

However, as Dam suggests, I would go with the second of my two options, or B of your latest options which are essentially the same.

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Problem solved! I sent our question to FFG support just like Jon suggested and received the answer already:

 

Thanks for your question! Sorry that rules question page didn't work for you. Here is what I got back from the developer about your question:

 
The "A" description is the most accurate.
 
The card is not intended to include any extra "loss" effect. In other words, if you lose the battle you still just lose 1 Life like normal without taking any additional effect. 
 
In addition, the statement of "If you do not…" in the "win" effect is in reference to whether or not you discarded a Corruption card from the first effect. If you have no Corruption cards to discard or choose not to discard one, you draw 1 Corruption card.
 
Hope that helps!

 

So the guys on the Polish forums were right :-)

Edited by mission

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Ah, so nice to have a definite answer, well done Dam on spotting it. I must say that this particular sentence is amazingly ambiguous.

 

After all, I looked at the card again and there is plenty of space on it. They could have written:

 

If you win this battle, you may choose 1 of your Corruption cards and discard it. If you do not (discard a Corruption card), draw 1 Corruption card.

 

That cannot be ambiguous. Four measly words...

 

Still, nice to know that there are people out there who are interested in this game.

Edited by guillaumetexas

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Honestly I don't see anything wrong with the card. It is very clear that the latter instruction is related just to discarding Corruption cards. I have no idea how one could read this card in another way.

 

Timing --> Effect --> Contradiction

 

Win a battle --> discard a Corruption card --> draw a Corruption card.

 

I don't think this card needs to be addressed in the FAQ.

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If it was clear, the question would not have been raised. It is in fact open to interpretation, however knowing of the usual wording structure of Relic and Talisman, one can work out that it was probably relating to the Corruption card (and was). Such are the nuances of the English language...

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Wow, lost track of this question, but i'm glad it got answered and my interpretation was correct. There was a lot of nerd rage around that card in that game!

Now just to get a group of regular players so I can play this more often!

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