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bloody malth

I Don't Get the Point of Blasphemous Incantation

34 posts in this topic

Blasphemous Incantation is a tier 3 talent, so is Psy Rating. The two talents cost the same and they both up the character's psy rating by one, but here are the differences:

  • Blasphemous Incantation takes an extra half action to use and powers that are activated with a reaction cannot benefit from it.
  • The character using Blasphemous Incantation suffers a +20 to any Psychic Phenomena rolls made as a result of the power used with it.
  • A roll of 91-00 when using Blasphemous Incantation automatically means the character must roll on Perils of the Warp.

By contrast, upping your Psy Rating doesn't come with any baggage. If your character is dedicated to Tzeentch, Blasphemous Incantation becomes a little cheaper than upping Psy Rating and that is the only reason I could see anyone considering picking up this power. Or maybe role-playing reasons.

There are some very astute people on these boards, so can anyone see something I am missing? Blasphemous Incantation doesn't seem like a very useful talent, especially one of Tier 3 rank.

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bloody malth said:

Blasphemous Incantation is a tier 3 talent, so is Psy Rating. The two talents cost the same and they both up the character's psy rating by one, but here are the differences:

  • Blasphemous Incantation takes an extra half action to use and powers that are activated with a reaction cannot benefit from it.
  • The character using Blasphemous Incantation suffers a +20 to any Psychic Phenomena rolls made as a result of the power used with it.
  • A roll of 91-00 when using Blasphemous Incantation automatically means the character must roll on Perils of the Warp.

By contrast, upping your Psy Rating doesn't come with any baggage. If your character is dedicated to Tzeentch, Blasphemous Incantation becomes a little cheaper than upping Psy Rating and that is the only reason I could see anyone considering picking up this power. Or maybe role-playing reasons.

There are some very astute people on these boards, so can anyone see something I am missing? Blasphemous Incantation doesn't seem like a very useful talent, especially one of Tier 3 rank.

Blasphemous Incantation is one of the Paths to Power as explained on BC corerules p.207. It can be taken just once unlike Psy Rating talent that can be taken multiple times.

It's morning here where I live under the rock, and I haven't yet got decent cup of coffee. So my brains are little bit frozen and can't make much more coherent text as must first translate the rule into finnish and then back into english.

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Routa-maa said:

Blasphemous Incantation is one of the Paths to Power as explained on BC corerules p.207. It can be taken just once unlike Psy Rating talent that can be taken multiple times.

 

This just looks like another way in which Blasphemous Incantation is limited in scope. That isn't a very convincing reason to reconsider the talent.

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Not every player will min/max their character. Some will roleplay, using Blasphemous Incantation and Child of the Warp to be a petty Psyker, perhaps never further increasing their Psy Rating, concentrating on other Skills and Talents as befitting the role play concept of their Character..

 

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Just because you're shooting yourself in the foot does not necessarily mean that you are roleplaying better though. In both cases you looked at and considered the mechanics, not just the fluff, before then  expending enough XP for a tier 3 talent. Choosing Blasphemous Incantation is just Psy Rating+1 with a long and vicious list of drawbacks. That petty psyker just boosted their psy rating. They just chose to do it in a way that's more dangerous to themselves and the party, with no real reason to do so.

Is it really "better roleplaying" if you made your selection based on which has the inferior mechanics? It's not as though you couldn't just, ya know, roleplay or use 'carouse' or something to portray your screaming and begging the dark gods, while using your higher psy rating. If that's what it was about, there's plenty of options out there. Deliberately selecting mechanical flaws doesn't feel like it has much to do with the actual roleplaying at all, and more about hoping for a critical existence failure because the resulting daemon could handle the party well enough…

While some will occasionally argue that going to the GM and demanding the Plasma-Gun you're obtaining be rolled as Extremely Rare, have the damage and range of the pistol, and overheat on 81+ instead of 91+ is "roleplaying", the only thing they're playing as is a hinderance to the party.

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The only benefit that this talent has is the fact, that you psy rating is increased after you determine if you use the power fettered, unfettered or pushed. So it is basically only better when using fettered as you will gain +1 psi rating every time and it will not be halved like a normal increase of you psi rating. At least as far as I can see a benefit.

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To each their own.

I don't think I should have to explain in finite detail every nuance of a character concept. Rather I would think someone, anyone, might look at my previous post and think outside the mechanics of the game. But for those who won't or can't, suffice it to say this game; nay, all five games; are filled with gaffs and inconsistancies, and every single person will play them as they will. It is clear FFG has no intention of bringing all five games into a single clear and comprehensive rules set, and as such we are left with the ocasional Errata or total silence on the things each of us feels "makes no sense". What makes no sense to some, makes sense in a completely different context to others.

I was merely offering a different perspective, one that eschewed approaching game play from the game mechanics in favor of concept and character personality.

 

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Alekzanter said:

I was merely offering a different perspective, one that eschewed approaching game play from the game mechanics in favor of concept and character personality.

His counterpoint was that he could approach the same concept/character personality without taking something that mechanically penalizes him. Just because a character doesn't have Blasphemous Incantation doesn't mean the character can't invoke powers while spouting off arcane gibberish (assuming that's part of the character concept/personality) - and if that character instead spends the xp that would have been spent on BI on another Psy Rating then he'll be more effective within that concept too.

So yeah, I think that Blasphemous Incantaion is overcosted. It would be better as a Tier 2 Talent. Considering it's aligned, it can n thebe taken very cheaply by some psykers - if they want to deal with the baggage it brings when used.

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Heres my take on it. As far as i know you can only buy up to your WP + CP bonus Psy rating, also it auto caps at 10. Blasphemous Incantation doesn't count towards this cap as far as i  know, thus when you have capped your Psy rating you can buy BI and get more power for your spells, but at a price.

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Bassemandrh said:

Heres my take on it. As far as i know you can only buy up to your WP + CP bonus Psy rating, also it auto caps at 10. Blasphemous Incantation doesn't count towards this cap as far as i  know, thus when you have capped your Psy rating you can buy BI and get more power for your spells, but at a price.

 

The WP+CP limit is something I hadn't considered. Thanks everyone for your input. I still don't think it's a particularly attractive talent from a mechanics standpoint. I don't want to seem combative, but I don't think its useful to consider a talent from a role-playing perspective in a rules discussion. Yes, you could take Blasphemous Incantation because you feel it fits the way you want to role-play your character, but that line of reason fits for any talent or rule. I was possibly unclear, but I started this thread because I wanted to see a discussion of the talent's mechanics. I already understand that role-play is limitless and that you can embrace rules that supposedly "worsen" your character for sake of a better story.

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There is another glaring point that has not been mentioned so far. Blasphemous Incantation is a Tzeentch aligned Talent, whereas Psy Rating is Unaligned; this will be important when working out advances for any Mark. Also, a Tzeentch aligned Psyker will buy Blasphemous Incantion for 400XP instead of 750XP for Psy Rating.

 

Edit: One more thing; another striking thing about it is the following passage:

 

"Using a power with an invocation grants the psyker a +1 bonus to his Psy Rating, after determining Psychic Strength. This bonus to PR does not infl uence the Psychic  Strength in any way; the benefi t is applied after determining whether a power is used at the Unfettered, Fettered or Push level."

Edited by Apache

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It is (almost) exactly the same as the Invocation skill in Deathwatch, except that it is more dangerous and can be used at the non-Fettered level, as befits Vile Sorcery. (and without looking at the books, it may take less time)

Edited by bogi_khaosa

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The Psy Rating limit of WPB + CB is moot, as you'll practically never reach that limit if you're building your psyker somewhat competently. 40+ WP and 20+ Corruption is reached quickly, and that means your limit is PR 6. That's not something you will reach at only 20 Corruption unless you happen to get Warpsmith or something.

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I almost bought this talent at character creation just so I could build a master of sorcery rather than a psyker, but it was too expensive -- I couldn't afford the Lore and Linguistics skills that the character concept required.

 

I dislike how that character type seems to be impossible.

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Also certain psychic powers get better if you use particular paths to power with them. For example Labyrinthine Conundrum from Tome of Fate deals an extra d10 intel damage per turn when used with Blasphemous Incantation.

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I almost bought this talent at character creation just so I could build a master of sorcery rather than a psyker, but it was too expensive -- I couldn't afford the Lore and Linguistics skills that the character concept required.

 

I dislike how that character type seems to be impossible.

 

Technically the line between psychic powers and sorcery is rather blurred in BC, so you could really just call it sorcery without the BI talent — that's what I'd do.

Edited by BrotharTearer

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Also certain psychic powers get better if you use particular paths to power with them. For example Labyrinthine Conundrum from Tome of Fate deals an extra d10 intel damage per turn when used with Blasphemous Incantation.

 

That's about the only sensible usage of this talent I can think of.

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I realize this is a necro, but

 

I figured it out, I think.

 

It allows you to use Fettered at +1 a higher level.

 

Fettered is 1/2 Psy Rating, making it cost 1/3 less than increasing Psy Rating (roughly, considering how rounding works)

 

Fettered does not invoke Phenomena, so the +20 does not apply.

 

Because the automatic Perils is part of a failed Test, it can be  rerolled with an Infamy Point.

 

So what it does is make using Fettered powers at a higher level more possible, with a 5% chance of a Peril (if Infamy Points are available) but no chance of psychic phenomena.

 

Or, if you really need an extra push in exchange for risk, you can use it to increase Unfettered or Pushed

Edited by bogi_khaosa

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I realize this is a necro, but
 
I figured it out, I think.
 
It allows you to use Fettered at +1 a higher level.
 
Fettered is 1/2 Psy Rating, making it cost 1/3 less than increasing Psy Rating (roughly, considering how rounding works)
 
Fettered does not invoke Phenomena, so the +20 does not apply.
 
Because the automatic Perils is part of a failed Test, it can be  rerolled with an Infamy Point.
 
So what it does is make using Fettered powers at a higher level more possible, with a 5% chance of a Peril (if Infamy Points are available) but no chance of psychic phenomena.
 
Or, if you really need an extra push in exchange for risk, you can use it to increase Unfettered or Pushed

I never took the time to read the Talent until I read this, but it is correct. It clearly says, "...grants the psyker a +1 bonus to Psy Rating after determining Psychic Strength". It is then further clarified in the text that this is the correct interpretation.

While I still question the usefulness of this very specific usage, it is nontheless a potentially huge benefit when using certain powers, since even a Psy Rating of a massive 6 gets cut down to 3 when used at a Fettered level; making a +1 (to 4 from 3) a huge boost (potentially).

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It will also let you increase Unfettered by 1 PR (which you would have to Push to do otherwise), without automatic Psychic Phenomena.

 

EDIT: come to think of it, without doing the math, I'm pretty sure if you do this your chance of getting a Peril is about the same. Nope it is MUCH MUCH LOWER.

 

Math math, assuming Bound Psyker with PR5.

 

1) Normal Pushing to PR6. Automatic chance of Psychic Phenomena; due to +10 to roll from being bound, 35% chance of a Peril.

 

2) Using Blasphemous Incantation to increase Unfettered to PR6: Automatic peril on 91-100 = 10%. Psychic phenomena on doubles: 8% chance of PP (since 99 and 00 are taken). Due to +20 for blasphemous incantation, 45% of those will be Perils = about 3.5% (let's round up to 4). 10 + 4 = 14. 14% chance of a Peril.

 

In other words, Blasphemous Incantations reduces your chance of getting a Peril of the Warp by almost two-thirds. Chance of Psychic Phenomena in general drops from 100% to 18%. Much lower if you Infamy Point the 91-100; I think down to about 8% chance of a Peril by eyeball math.

 

This Talent is actually not bad at all.

Edited by bogi_khaosa

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I'm not sure how you're reading it to get it to reduce the chances of a Psychic Phenomena/Peril of the Warp. It doesn't say anything about waiving the regular rules (that I remember; I don't have the books right in front of me right now) - it just adds a forced Peril at 91-100 (and Failure), no matter what, even if used at Fettered.

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@bogi khaosa

I'm still not entirely convinced.

As noted, the talent has two uses: more PR with Fettered and pseudo-Pushing.

 

The Fettered use is nice, but it still has a 1 in 10 chance of costing you an Infamy Point or creating a Peril. The point of fettering powers to me is that you can throw them around willy-nilly. I use them when the worst that can happen from a failed power use is me shrugging and trying again next round (my Q'Sal Magister always "speaks" by Fettered Thought Sending). When time is a problem, I'm more likely to go for Unfettered to get it right on the first try - and chances are the extra half action isn't all that unproblematic then either.

If you're feeling charitable, you can call the result more powerful than Fettered and a little less risky than Unfettered when you've got an IP to spend - if you're not feeling charitable, you call it less powerful than Unfettered and less safe than Fettered. After all, that Infamy Point spent for re-rolling is still an Infamy Point that might have saved your bacon on another roll later if you manifested the power Fettered, failed and tried again next round.

 

The pseudo-push is of dubious value. After all, as a Bound Psyker, you don't push from 5 to 6 for +10 phenomena, but you push from 5 to anywhere between 6 and 8 for a flat +10 - it's the Unbound ones that get their +5 for each PR they push. So what really happens is that for a +1 in PR, your perils risk jumps from 0.1*0.26 = 2.6% to the 14% you mentioned, for a single PR beyond what Unfettered grants you while for thrice the chance and no talent expenditure, you also get three levels of additional power.

 

If the talent had either the 91+=perils (or rather phenomena) or the +20 phenomena drawback, it would be halfway fine, but together, it's a bit too much drawback for too little power.

 

@Fgdsfg

bogi was comparing an unfettered blasphemous power with a +1-pushed non-blasphemous one.

Edited by Cifer

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I'm not sure how you're reading it to get it to reduce the chances of a Psychic Phenomena/Peril of the Warp. It doesn't say anything about waiving the regular rules (that I remember; I don't have the books right in front of me right now) - it just adds a forced Peril at 91-100 (and Failure), no matter what, even if used at Fettered.

 

It doesn't waive the normal rules; it changes the threshold for when something counts as Fettered/Unfettered/Pushed.

 

What I mean is:

 

Say you have Psy Rating 5.

 

You can Push to Psy Rating 6.

 

OR (if you have Blasphemous Incantation) you can do Psy Rating 6 at the Unfettered Level, without Pushing. Which has a lower chance of phenom and perils than Pushing does. Significantly less, if my math was right.

Edited by bogi_khaosa

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I wonder if the +20 to phenomena adds to the normal bonus from being bound/unbound, or replaces it?

 

That would make a big difference.

Edited by bogi_khaosa

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You know what, never mind.

 

Even though my math seems to be right and a +1 Psy Rating achieved via applying Blasphemous Incantation to Unfettered level is considerably safer than adding +1 Psy Rating via Push, since they cost the samt, you could just buy +1 Psy Rating and do it Unfettered. :)

 

Unless you're already up to 10.

 

There must be something go on in this Talent that I'm just not seeing.

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