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Emirikol

4 Years In: What do you and your fellow players think of WFRP?

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I have started preparing TEW and while I still find wfrp to be heavy and slow during combat, I think I'll solve it by making sure people are ready to roll their dice when their turn comes up.

I really look forward to playing TEW and I've streamlined our house rules to support faster play.

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I have started preparing TEW and while I still find wfrp to be heavy and slow during combat, I think I'll solve it by making sure people are ready to roll their dice when their turn comes up.

I really look forward to playing TEW and I've streamlined our house rules to support faster play.

 

Our group seems to have found a sweet spot.  We got rid of the major clunk:

1.  No talent socketing.  It's a stupid, gamist mechanic.  Gone.

2.  No Defense "recharge."  Clunky, unnecessary, gamist mechanic.  Gone.  Solid, constant black dice defense. Very simple and no "recharge" or trying to justify how you can only parry one person per round in a narrative combat.

3.  No party sheet.  Good idea, bad implementation.  Gone (unless a player 'needs' it).

4.  Initiative is on YOUR turn.  If you switch with someone, great.  If not, then you go in order of your rolled initiative.  There's none of this "planning session crap" before the players go now to slow us down.

5.  No rally step.  Dumb idea from the start.  Gone unless a player calls for it for an ability.

 

 

 

Those things dramatically sped up our games (along with having enough dice for everyone).  Cancelling dice is easy and quick.

 

jh

Edited by Emirikol

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I removed the party sheet. It was just not adding much except the party ability. We don't miss it. I just give everyone fortune points directly. Also the sharing of talents seemed silly.

But about socketing - how do you handle that advanced and heroic careers can slot more talents? So you simply have every single talent active at all times? Doesn't that give a lot to keep track of? One advantage I can see is that some of the less popular talent's may actually get used.

I like the initiative system, because players can take turns and react to what happends. I like that. I do however agree that it may slow combat down, which I hate :-(

I also really like how defence works, that you can only commit so much to defence and that it can leave you open. How do you handle other defensive cards then and improved versions. The advanced rank 4+ cards actually help balance combat a lot. But all that recharge token crap slows the game down generally. I would like to find an alternate system without recharge tokens, but where you still had to cycle cards. Some sort of deck system where you play them and can return them to your hand somehow.

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 But about socketing - how do you handle that advanced and heroic careers can slot more talents? So you simply have every single talent active at all times? Doesn't that give a lot to keep track of? One advantage I can see is that some of the less popular talent's may actually get used. 

I also really like how defence works, that you can only commit so much to defence and that it can leave you open. How do you handle other defensive cards then and improved versions? The advanced rank 4+ cards actually help balance combat a lot. But all that recharge token crap slows the game down generally. I would like to find an alternate system without recharge tokens, but where you still had to cycle cards. Some sort of deck system where you play them and can return them to your hand somehow.

 

Regarding talents:  Yes, they are all on, all the time.  The exhaustable ones have a recharge of 4.  As for the 'benefit' of having an extra talent slot for 2nd and 3rd career characters, the point is kind of moot.  It just doesn't matter.  Higher career characters have the roleplaying aspect instead.  My players generally haven't complained about actually getting to use various talents, and YES, they do start taking the more obscure ones.

 

I too give fortune points whenever I feel like it (usually after something dramatically heroic), and I also allow regain of fortune points on double-boon (instead of universal effects, etc).  Since we can use our fortune points whenever, people are more apt to use them, rather than hoarding them all session.

 

Regarding Defence:  We don't use any of the cards that are defence (basic, improved or advanced).  Any card that references defence recharge is simply house ruled to what it would be normally.  For example: "While your defence is recharging, you gain blah blah blah..that means recharge 2.)  This eliminates basically 6 out of the 8,000,000,000 cards in this system.  One thing I'm currently pondering though is how to house rule the morningstar...

 

I too like that you may leave yourself open for a defence, but I figure enough is enough on keeping the action moving.  Like 2nd edition had "Hit Locations."  It was interesting, but it slowed combat and was really unnecessary in the end (in my games). 

 

Also, as there are a LOT of chaos star effects that I don't like to constantly adjudicate, I added that 2 boons cancel a chaos star.  This has the benefit that we don't have to always make something up for chaos stars PLUS it reduces chances for criticals and better effects on cards.  Considering the numbers of white and black dice being thrown around, it levels the playing field of effects (2 banes cancel a comet).

 

All in all, it came down to personal preference and a couple simple fixes.  That's what I like about this game.  Its modularity essentially makes it infinitely house rule-able.

Edited by Emirikol

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All in all, it came down to personal preference and a couple simple fixes.  That's what I like about this game.  Its modularity essentially makes it infinitely house rule-able.

 

 

Yes, this is also what I liked a lot about WFRP3. The components actually give you a lot of cool ideas to implement the details of your adventures. I find it quite easy to choose which modules to use depending on the setting/adventure we are playing. I have houseruled some of the aspects of the game, specially stress/fatigue so that they can affect the characters more time before they go unconscious (basically, the threshold is a fixed number, now 6, plus the character's relevant characteristic).

 

And talking about settings, we have used this system (mainly its dice mechanics) to run short scenarios in other settings. So far our group has done medieval Europe, modern Afghanistan and a science fiction scenario is coming soon.

 

I've just recently started playing Edge of the Empire and it is a really good game for narrative style play. It's a very well done evolution of the WFRP3 dice mechanics for more narrative gaming. I miss a bit the stance dice, as I think they add an extra level of control for the characters. On the other hand, I think they really got it perfect this time with the DIfficulty and Expertise dice which are a bit clankier in the system... If FFG would develop a new version of the system, I hope they keep everything in place but use the dice mechanics of Edge of the Empire for Expertise and Difficulty dice.

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I am pondering if it would be possible to create a system where you have all cards on your hand when combat starts and then play the cards to the table. Either have a sort of power threshold that recharges and the recharge of the cards is the cost of playing them. Or let it be so that when you play a card with recharge 5 you need to have a total of 5 played cards to return it to the hand. All effects referencing recharge counters would use a fixes number. Hmm cam already see several reasons why that wouldn't work, but I'd really like to make a general system that removed recharge tokens.

But I don't know if it really is that time consuming as most recharge token work can be done after or

Before the players turn.

Getting dice, interpreting them for the cards and picking which card to use are the major time hogs as my table. And the initiative system too, but haven't given that much thought as it doesn't really slow eote down. But the combination of the initiative system and all the fiddly parts may be a bad mix.

If everyone has their card and dice ready when it's their turn, then they only need to make the check and get the result. Recharge tokens can be put on cards as the next player is up. I'll try a streamlined initiative so everone knows when their turn is up and can be ready, for our next session and see how that goes.

Edited by Gallows
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WFRPG 3.0 in my humble opinion has been probably one of the most memorable and fun gaming experiences I have had since the days of 1st edition AD&D.  It's clever, engaging and unique.

 

It's unfortunate however that its been such a short lived and lightly printed edition, its understandable to a degree given the countless components and sheer volume of the game but I would have like to have seen more story module box sets.  The print on demand I find kind of pointless as it adds the one thing this game doesn't need anymore of, mechanic detail.  What we need is more cleverly written adventures for the game.

 

None the less I consider my set complete at this point in terms of everything I wanted/needed.

 

If I where to say anything negative about the game I would point out that the game doesn't play well with more then 4 players. Even if you have the components, its really geared more towards smaller parties 2-4 players, maybe 5 if everyone knows the rules well and keeps their areas tidy.  I tried to run a session with 6 players and it was an awful mess that made a six player Twilight Imperium game in round 8 look clean.

 

I would also have to say that the game is really really tough from a player perspective and this isn't always appreciated by every audience.   Characters die and they die often, its a rare campaign that see's all the characters survive with their mental state in tact.  Its a brutal game though it appeals to me personally, I would be lying if this wasn't one of the more frequent complaints we here at our tables.

 

All and all though, given the epic failure of 4th edition, this game really saved fantasy role-playing for me.  

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The game delivers many great rp helps for players to flesh out their character. Most other system don't have much to do with actually rp and just support you with stats and rules which I don't find that interesting. I do not see how the system is tough from a player perspective. I do not feel that the system kills you faster then others. It's just that the system doesn't have a million hooks that save you. You usually only die because you are playing a character that acts in a way that doesn't support living long and retiring at some point not because the system is out to get you no matter what. I personally hate when systems avoid player death because it takes the joy out of survival and does take away the feeling of accomplishment that you get when you survive even though the going gets tough.

The published adventures are okay I guess but they have faults. Just like any published adventure of any system has. Some are good some are bad but in the end it depends on your GM anyways.

 

From a GM perspective I cannot say anything negativ. I just love the system. In addition I really like how the system supports me in giving flavor by interpreting dice rolls. Of course if you do not enjoy that the system might feel like it's wasting your time. I also cannot say that I need a lot of time preparing a session but that might also depend on the fact that I don't use published adventures myself.

I cannot talk about published adventures from a GM perspective because I do not use those. But the warhammer lore is so rich and great that I also do not feel like I would need them anyways (which I would hate).

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This is my most played and read RPG I've ever owned. There's parts of the system I love and parts that annoy me a bit. People moan about storage but I've managed to fit pretty much everything in the core box. I'm looking forward to playing eote as Star Wars was where my RPG hobby started but I have a feeling that I'll want to come back to wfrp sooner rather than later.

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I agree that WFRP stands as one of the most memorable rpgs I've ever played. When I look at other systems, I just know I'm going to miss the custom dice and how that works. I can manage without the cards in EotE, but that's because they use talents and strain to do pretty much the same as recharge tokens do in WFRP.

 

I've cut down out house rules to two pages. Going back to abstract movement for instance. Just using the grid to easily see range bands. I've balanced the reckless dice, because they are just too poor compared to conservative. Especially seeing as 4+ successes are pointless for most actions.

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Been 3 years since I've played. Just starting to gear up to run some of the stuff that's come out since last time. the new TEW and Witchs song probably.

Our first run through years ago. Players liked the dice, the mechanics ( okay except for one, who's always dislikedWFRP magic in any edition, yet has alway wanted to play a wizard- so that's on him), and the adventures. We played through Eye for an Eye and Gathering Storm, as well as stuff I made up myself or ported from 1E.

In the end though, we put it aside. At the time there were 6 of us at the table, and things became to cluttered.

As a. GM I liked the system but hated the piece meal way it was released. I found my self feeling like I had access to only , maybe half a game. I filled things using 1 and 2 stuff as inspiration, but it became more work then I wanted to do.

There were also rules and tools I quickly dropped. Party card? Nope. Social combat? No thanks. A/C/E ? Pain in the butt.

( funny now that I think of it 1E was the only edition I've ever run RAW, 2E had a lot of fiddly crap I ignored...)

I also disliked the physical nature of it all. The boxes, thin splat books, etc. I'm a more then one book on the table is to many books kinda guy. And those boxes? Ugh.

Fast forward 3 years later, I'm down 3 players ( time moves on and people move away). My wife asked me if I'd be willing to run Warhammer again. I could have picked any of the 3 editions- so despite my negative comments, there's gotta be something to it.

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One of my favorite systems is savage worlds. It handles combat very well and if you want a huge fight with 50+ NPCs, then you can do so and finish it in two hours. The system is realy elegant, fast and yet has depth. It's very warhammerish with exploding dice which can result in one hit kills. There is a great warhammer conversion for savage worlds on the net (savage warhammer - a 90 page pdf). You could give it a shot if you want a game system, where the focus is on story, combat can be fast and gritty and it's easy to use for warhammer.

Edited by Gallows

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I'm not sure if the SW recommendation is directed at my comments.

I appreciate the recommendation, and I own a copy of it. However I will stick l to giving 3 a 2nd shake down.

This time around I'm eager to see how it works with fewer players. To be honest we had only a few issues w/ it the time around. W/ the exception of one players issue with how magic works ( more then once he hinted that there should be an effort to port D&D spells in to various editions - yuck), and a few comments that characters seemed more resilient in 3, then 1 or 2.

The big issue were: lack of a complete rule set. So much that had been present in earlier editions was missing.. The overall initial impression we got was the game wasn't designed for long term play. Not with out lots off "addons". Or lots of home brewed material. Or a game that's large group friendly. Not with out buying extra sets.

4 years later there's a good deal of territory that has been covered ( material that I'd argue should have been in the core game), but it seems more or less a whole game at this point. And, if as some have suggested, 3s development is winding down , perhaps I can get them in the cheap side.

The other being the physical nature of the thing. Portability, prep time, clean up and storage to be precise .

With more material covered and a better understanding of this beast, fewer players and enough time to consider what I am going to do with it, who knows?this time around it Might be a great success, might be an abject failure....

If I'm bitter about one thing where 3E is concerned its only because it took them nearly 4 years to release the entire game. When I read about how much more refined EotEs mechanics are I can't help thinking: Who knows, had a complete WFRP 3 been released 4 years ago, perhaps we'd be that much closer to a more finely tuned WFRP 4?

Of course that scenario would open up a whole new can of worms.

Edit: I may sound mostly critical. But it feels more like the game was largely an "experiment" in game mechanics and marketing. And, again, it's not a horrible game. My group DID enjoy it, the first time around. It wasn't the game mechanics that ended the campaign, it's what was missing at that time.

Edited by Ninefingers

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  I would have liked to see an elf book.  Dark, high and wood all in one would have been cool.  Otherwise I think its a great system.  We actually use descent 2 tiles and GW figs..so good.

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Still loving it.  Yes want more support for additional races and parts of the Old World etc., more pods for additional orders and faiths, or career niches etc.

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I agree. Additional races (the different elven races and maybe Brettonia) need a box, but other than that pods could cover the faiths/orders and more specific career areas (I'd like more PoD expansions in a similar format as 'From the Grave' with a few careers, actions, talents etc.). It's quite a complete game as it is right now, but the elves really need a box to make the game feel truly whole.

 

We still feel it's a great game, one of the best, and we're having a lot of fun with it in our gaming group. We've never played a single RPG constantly for this long.

Edited by k7e9
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  I support a lot of what FFG does with my wallet.  I don't ask for much...but man I really really wanted a high elf book.  When they printed the dwarf book....I was like sweeet we are definitely getting an elf book.  At least in my mind elves would be a better seller no?  Ah well...maybe a POD white lion...

 

  I also wanted alternative art/race career cards...I dont know why but I would have liked having all the races for each class represented.  I figure you poured this much awesome into it, why stop half way?  At least in my area it seems like more GW hate and less the game is no good.  I can't believe how polarizing GW can be...but me personally, I've always liked GW High elves.

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So far this is one of the two best systems I have played.  The other was an old James Bond game by Victory Games, and one of the things that they have in common is that actions are not binary- they have some measure of success from mediocre to great.  I also love the action cards/recharge system because it forces players to not do the same thing for 5 turns like attacking in 3.5 D&D.  That gets so boring, especially in a long encounter, but the action cards with recharge really push the players away from that in a nice way.

 

I am also a long time card gamer, so I kinda like having them in hand and the quality of the fiddly bits (as someone put it) really makes them a joy to use.

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Man o man, VG's James Bond Was an great semi- percentile based system!! If anyone has never played it, I really recommend getting a copy of the core rulebook just to have a good look at the mechanics of the game.

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Man o man, VG's James Bond Was an great semi- percentile based system!! If anyone has never played it, I really recommend getting a copy of the core rulebook just to have a good look at the mechanics of the game.

Yea, several times I have thought about making a fantasy game using it, but I am really not that ambitious and my gaming group tends to be a bit leery about fan-made stuff anyway.

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@DrWorm

Come on, they are all playing "fan games" to an extent!!

Try it out, it is an "official system", all you would have to do is change some of the skills to a more fantasy setting. I don't know if you have access to it, but have a read of the original "DC Hero's" rules as well for some suggestions on how to deal with stuff like magic and mysticism and you could create  **** solid RPG system IF, and I stress IF, you want a more free-flowing kind of game.

If all your players want is truck 'o' rules however, Skills and Powers 2nd ED D&D would be perfect for them, or perhaps Bushido. :P

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