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Snap_Dragon

Rogue Trader to Only War conversion (PEACH)

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Hi folks,

Since Only War came out I've been working to update Rogue Trader to use its rule set.  I like a lot of the things that Only War did, especially how they handled addtional soldiers in the form of comrades, and I'd like to capture that in only war.  I also wanted to mechanically address one of the problems in Rogue Trade which is it does not give you a good tool to reflect the manpower a dynasty has at its disposal instead it requires the GM to use fiat or plot to strip them of the resources of their ship and crew rather than roll with it (which is why I created Henchmen and Horde rules).

Apart from updating the Origin Path to new rules I am trying to create a system that creates characters who are better suited to the claim that they are the most competant people on a ship staffed by tens of thoustands.  I also wanted characters to come out of character generation with a basis for their personality and a backstory with other PCs (which is why I added crossovers to give them a mechanical incentive to have one other player in their backstory).  I've added transitions to increase the flexability of the Origin Path.

These are far from finished but I'm hoping to get some feedback from other players and GMs.

I've created a google doc folder here: https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B5IhPBoHK3FAbWhiMmZFdG1mdnM/edit

My thought process and rational: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H6xA03p6ddJa0P_kErWuA8q4I-Qp9Y-KiJS3w1bDn-8/edit

Homeworlds - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rLcxmb0syrFEfUkGxNG_czG3droZLxWFuJjgtC4tn-c/edit

Birthrights - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H6xA03p6ddJa0P_kErWuA8q4I-Qp9Y-KiJS3w1bDn-8/edit?usp=sharing

Lure of the Void - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RAkOmYM4w7MXtihTUBPdnA3uKOsgtmnZMrJ0mfPIJIY/edit?usp=sharing

Trials and Travails - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YixWae3kdDuMyWeK-vmOXTAve5oPnxRjTaI1LZQxHUg/edit?usp=sharing

Motivation - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zVlHM-nvB7icm1VVC1xj_n636HJ_J0Km2mmY6zdb1CI/edit?usp=sharing

Careers - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1A96unmEl3oJ5qDGBQQ9qOUaH89ThJ9ZXKyXY_QR2onk/edit?usp=sharing

Crossovers - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Hs1MCi75jfcYKJpaQMjtlBdcCl8qVymxCmMMohPC5CA/edit?usp=sharing

Transitions - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pxMM--0UUjNZKQxA3OaBDG79PWRceNMdy90eU8ftzf0/edit?usp=sharing

Hordes - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZEuN2dEJTakIYZJwNu2v2Hzxb3BjESoZZDpoLVDemaw/edit?usp=sharing

Henchmen (unfinished) - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T6BXBmSfuTknlUfqXqwu6LqvXoP1Jd1Wgg5Z8ZlyoeI/edit?usp=sharing

Origin Path Diagram - https://drive.google.com/?tab=wo&authuser=0#folders/0B5IhPBoHK3FAbWhiMmZFdG1mdnM

My current delimas are:

  • General balance issues, are there optimal choices?
  • Are characters too powerful for people heading a rogue trader dynasty?
  • Does the new system promote specialists or generalists.
  • Have I missed anything significant which might impact player's enjoyment of the game?
  • Have I made any spelling or gramatical mistakes? (hint: yes, I have)
  • What do people think of Horde Rules?
  • What do people think of Henchmen Rules?

Latest update 13/04/13

Any input is appretiated.

thanks,

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I like all of the work you've put into the Origin Path reworks, but I'm not really adept at judging one or the other as my group's now into the swing of my campaign so I don't want to re-roll Stats right now. Skimming it though it does seem really good, and I like that you opened it up to bouncing around a little more.

The real strength of this is the Skills and Talents section though. I think that the Black Crusade/Only War set for Skills and Talents make a lot more sense in Rogue Trader. These should be characters who theoretically can be customized in all sorts of ways as they are already the top infiniteeth percentage of Mankind.

Wish I could provide more feedback, but don't know when I'll get a chance to start a group from scratch. I hope you keep it up though, as this is great!

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You might want to throw up some sample characters under this system so people can compare to Only War and Rogue Trader.

 

Here's a quick and dirty Rogue Trader

Attributes: +25 to starting Fellowship (so about 60 off of the point buy), +9 WS, +3 INT, BS, AG. +3 to any other of your choice, +9 to attributes of GM Choice.

Skills: Linguistics (Low Gothic, High Gothic) and Common Lore(Koronus), Operate (Voidship), Common Lore(Imperium), Scholastic Lore (Heraldry), Navigation (Stellar), Dodge, Parry, Deceive, Charm +10, Command, Commerce, Scholastic Lore (Astromancy)

Talents: (choose 1 other free tier one talent), Enemy(see Unseen Enemy), Iron Discipline, Renowned Warrant, Weapon Training (Any), Disarm, Air of Authority, Weapon Training(Low-Tech, Power, Las, Bolt)

Aptitudes: Weapon Skill Offence, Finesse, Intelligence, Fieldcraft, Leadership, Fellowship, Social, Willpower

 

There's a smattering of other benefits but those are the core details

 

Comparing to a rank 1 RT it looks a lot more competent.

 

 

 

 

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This stuff all looks great!

Have you done any playtesting yet? If so what snags have you hit?

I noticed that the Voidmaster and Navigator have the 'exploration' aptitude. What talents/ skills does this affect? 


My group  maybe interested in trying out some if not all of these rules. 

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Spend Experience Points:

As the last step you get 500 XP to spend as you see fit on skills, talents or additional powers.  Before this step the only thing you can spend your XP on are various options along the Origin Path, but once you pick a career you can use it’s aptitudes to determine XP costs of skills and attributes. 

 

From Character Creation.

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I have had a chance to look over the origins, and I have to admit being puzzled by the character creation choices you made.

 

It appears that you went for a full RT to OW port for character generation, rather than using the character

generation from RT and then using the character progression rules from OW, and as such some of origins like Void Born, don't seem to have quite the same feel as they would have had in DH or RT - if you don't mind my asking, why did you opt for this type of character generation method?

 

Mind you, I'm not saying the method you chose is wrong, I'm just wondering why you chose it over other possible methods.

Edited by Chopper Greg

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It seems like Plushy and Snap_Dragon both have two sets of rules -- one to convert Rogue Trader to Only War, one to convert Dark Heresy to Only War.  Are you all going to work together, to encourage the systems to be more similar or whatever?  Here's the other set of rules:

 

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/73935-dark-heresy-2e-conversion-peach/

 

I like both quite a bit!

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Snap_Dragon - could I get your thoughts on rebuilding the Kabalite Warrior from The Soul Reaver book from an aptitude perspective?

 

Something Akin to:

 

Offense, Agility, Finesse, Perception, Ballistic Skill, Weapon Skill. Intelligence? And prehaps Field Craft?

 

With True Born giving Fellowship, or Social aptitude?

 

 

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After having talked this over with my GM and my fellow players, we found out some strange things. While we obviously can modify it to our liking, we'd just like to raise some points concerning balance. I'd just like to say that we really like your work and the effort you've put into this, so please don't take this the wrong way.

 

Anyway.

 

First of all, there's the question of Aptitudes. We noticed that some Careers start with seven, like Void-Master, Navigator and Astropath, while some, like Explorator and Rogue Trader, start with nine. I can understand that Navigators and Astropath get less Aptitudes due to their respective special powers, but why would the Void-Master only get seven? In Only War, except for the Aptitudes you get for your Regiment, you usually only get six or seven. Rogue Trader having more Aptitudes makes sense, since you're supposed to be badass, but why vary between seven and nine? According to your notes, you've balanced the Aptitudes against the starting gear, among others. This makes sense in points, but consider that it'll be null and void as soon as you get your first Acquisition check, at which point the player with less aptitudes feels cheated. Remember that gear is both more and less important in RT compared to other games. While you still need good gear, you can buy voidships, for Omnissiah's sake! Getting practical gear like armour, bolters and other stuff isn't a problem, especially not with a half-competent Seneschal or Rogue Trader.

 

Then there's some balance issues and strange things in the Career abilities.

  • Snap Out Of It is really powerful since it denies mind control.
  • There seems to be a lot of weapon types missing from the Arch-Militant's Weapon Master
  • Psy Rating times 200xp might be too expensive. Compare a cost of 1900xp to Psy Rating 8 in Core to the 6600 it costs here. You might want to make it a Rank 3 Talent Advance with the previous Psy Rating as a Prerequisite.
  • Guardian of Purity would make sense to have Armour of Contempt as a Prerequisite, considering its effect.

That's mostly what we've talked about. Now, I repeat, this is really good work, but you asked for criticism and balance issues, so I've given you this. I hope we'll see more of your work!

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I've been in contact with him, and as far as I've managed to work out, he's written a somewhat fixed play-version for himself and his group, but not published it. I also asked permission to expand the rules, and have been doing so for a while now. However, it's been a bit slow, as real life had a tendency to interrupt.

 

When I get around to making a "release"-version, I'll let you know, either in this thread or in a new one.

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