Khal Drogo's response

[eloooooooi 0]

My doubt about Gates of Winterfell and ktom's explanation about it have led me to this question:

If I own and control Khal Drogo (I played him) and I win a challenge, can I use his response to put him into play as a duplicate? If so, what would happen at the end of the phase?

 

And another one:

If Khal Drogo is in my dead pile and I win a challenge, can I use his response to try to put him into play? Would that discard him (same way as with Gates of Winterfell)?

 

Thanks a lot.

[Aertes 0]

This one may be seen in the rulebook itself:

If you have a duplicate (another card of the same
name) of a unique card in your hand but you already
control and own a version of that card currently
in play, you may attach the duplicate from
your hand to the unique card in play, for no gold
cost, during your marshalling

You can play duplicates only during your marshalling phase, so Khal Drogo's Response will be of no use there.

[eloooooooi 0]

Does that forbid me to use its response? I don't think so...

I'm not trying to play a duplicate, I'm trying to put it into play by using a response effect.

[JerusalemJones 1]

The rules for unique characters read "Each player may only have one copy of a unique card in play. Thus, you cannot put into play or take control of a unique card which you already own or control...You also may not play or take control of a unique card if there is a copy of that card in your dead pile..." p.19 (emphasis mine)

The copy of the card in your hand is considered the duplicate of your unique card, so you cannot trigger its response to put it into play.

As for part two of your question, are you trying to trigger the Khal's Response while he is in your dead pile, or you have a copy of Khal Drogo in your hand and one in your dead pile. Either way, you cannot trigger to the effect to put him into play. Cards cannot be triggered from your dead or discard pile unless their ability specifically states that is the case, and you cannot play or put into play a unique card that is in your dead pile.

[ktom 598]

Actually, JJ, you edited out the all-important "except for duplicates" exception in your quote. Check the v7.1 FAQ in the Westeros section for the card "Reinforcements." Seems like you can indeed choose to put a copy of a unique you already have in play, so long as it meets the cost restriction, and have it come into play as a dupe. If you can do that with Reinforcements (the plot) and cards like Recruiting Tent and Gates of Winterfell, there is no reason you cannot use the Response on a second copy of Khal Drogo in your hand to have it enter play as a dupe. The Reinforcements entry in the FAQ provides the precedent.

Oh, and since the "at the end of the phase, return Khal Drogo to your hand" part is self-referential, it only applies to the card that became the dupe, not every copy of Khal Drogo you (or your opponent) may have in play. And since the dupe is now a titleless, textless, traitless card, it no longer meets the "Khal Drogo" part of the effect, so it would not return to your hand.

So, long story short on the first question: the "except for duplicates" exception to the rules of uniqueness allow you to use "put into play" effects to duplicate unique cards you already have in play.

 

However, if you have a copy of Khal Drogo in your dead pile, or if your opponent has taken control of your Khal Drogo, the "except for duplicates" exception does not apply. You would not be allowed to trigger (i.e., initiate) the Response effect on a second copy of Khal Drogo (because of the "cannot" means "don't try" clarification - and yes, "may not" and "cannot" are usually treated as the same thing in this game). Without the exception to take advantage of, "put into play" effects are out of luck.

(eloooooooi: the difference between Khal Drogo's Response and Gates of Winterfell's effect in relation to the "dead pile" question is that Gates of Winterfell starts with the "reveal the top card of your deck" effect. Since you do not know that the card on top of your deck is a unique character that is already dead, the rules for uniqueness do not stop you from initiating the effect in the first place the way it does with Khal Drogo - it just stops you from successfully resolving the "put into play" part of Gate's of Winterfell's multiple effects. Remember, when two effects share the same trigger, conditions preventing you from successfully resolving one of the effects does not prevent you from initiating the other.)

[eloooooooi 0]

Thank you so much for your explanations. I really appreciate your help and the knowledge you share with us.

[Rogue30 60]

So, if you have 2 copies of Drogo in hand, you can put them both into play as a response to winning (one after another). Then, you can use 2nd copy (which now is duplicate) to save Drogo from returning to hand at the end of the phase, correct?

[ktom 598]

Rogue30 said:

So, if you have 2 copies of Drogo in hand, you can put them both into play as a response to winning (one after another). Then, you can use 2nd copy (which now is duplicate) to save Drogo from returning to hand at the end of the phase, correct?

On the face of it, that would seem to be correct, but there is a somewhat obscure rule preventing it. From the LCG FAQ (p. 6):

(2.6) End of the Phase
Each end-of-the-phase Framework Action
Window should be played without step
two (Save/Cancel) and without step five
(Responses). No triggered effects can be
played after the initiation of the end of the
phase.

Essentially, no Response effects (including save/cancel) can be used in association with "until the end of the phase" or "at the end of the phase" effects. So while the dupe could save a character from being returned to hand, dupes are considered a Response and thus cannot be used when Khal Drogo is returned to hand "at the end of the phase." 

[Rogue30 60]

Ah, indeed, it's easy to forget/miss. Thanks.