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HappyDaze

Do moderates have a place in Chaos?

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One basic point about moderates is that you need them to have anything of value maintained or created.  Even the largest armies can't grow beyond 10% of the population for long.  Having a heretek forge building tanks and starships requires social law enforcement even if it isn't actually written. (two examples, Q’Sal with their no war policy or to jump systems, the drow with their specific rules on what you have to do to kill a rival)

 

You could imagine a khorne society as a samurai society gone crazy.  The warriors are the ones "blessed" and they get to have the weapons and kill.  Meanwhile the majority of the population is peasants busy farming to support the warriors.

 

A society where everyone is embracing chaos is one where everyone starves due to lack of food.

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Slaanesh is fertility, and its followers are gifted with fruit gardens and hunting forests to slate their thirst and hunger alright. Tzeench followers don't seem to starve as well if you look at Q'Sal which has solid agriculture. Khornates feast upon what they take by force from everyone else. The only one who starves are nurgle followers, and they are okay with it.

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There should be a gray zone somewhere between both the extremes of the Imperium and the hardcore worshippers of Chaos.

 

A society that may or may not recognize the emperor and/or the chaos gods as actual gods, but aren't necessary extremists in either case. These would tolerate actual chaos worshippers to some degree, but won't be afraid to kill them if things get out of hand. Perhaps this kind of society is more like an underworld society or very mafia like with families that will take care of their own and offer protection to others for a price.

 

Bottomline is that this kind of society wouldn't really be a happy democracy or anything like that, but there will be some order of some kind.

Edited by Gridash

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Khornates feast upon what they take by force from everyone else.

If I were a Khornate, I would wring the location of the nearest elephant out of its tracks with my mighty headmuscle, grab the light with my bare hands and forcibly bend it around me until I'd stalked up to the beast, strangle it to death with its own trunk, and wrestle the nutrients out of its still-twitching flesh with the awesome might of a true warrior's guts.

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Slaanesh is fertility, and its followers are gifted with fruit gardens and hunting forests to slate their thirst and hunger alright.

 

Slaanesh isn't fertility, that's Nurgle.  Of course, since it's Chaos it's done in a ****** up way - Nurgle will get you through without food, water, or even atmospheric pressure, but it's still gonna suck.  A lot.  

 

Slaanesh is more a god(dess) of experience, like Dionysus or Aphrodite.  

 

Chaos worshippers are still total nutjobs, but so is everyone else in the setting, let's be real here.  And things have to be relatively stable in some ways for them to build planetary-level infrastructure like on several worlds in the Vortex.  

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Relating this back to the OP a bit...mechanically game wise in this game can you play a Legion CSM that is not a worshipper of Chaos? My favorite Traitor Legions are Night Lords and Iron Warriors and both of them are fairly indifferent if not hostile to Chaos itself. Do you have to choose one of the four Chaos gods for your CSM to worship? Or can you simply be a CSM that only wants to fight the Long War?

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Your alignment and zeal (or lack of it) are entirely up to you. Yet you are being watched by the dark gods, and an entity currently most interested in you (if there is any) is the one you are aligned (and even then you don't necessarily worship it).

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So it's possible to be a moderate in the World of Chaos, but you will never benefit from the powers of the Gods as much as those who throw off all inhibitions and give themselves utterly to them. 

 

Probably the weirdest thing about Black Crusade is that undivided types, who are specifically stated to retain the most free will and can include people who are merely using Chaos to their own ends, arguably get the most fabulous powers (Exalted powers).

 

Me personally, I would have made Undivided the weakest, since you give up the least, but as Undivided is my favorite, I have no complaints.

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Relating this back to the OP a bit...mechanically game wise in this game can you play a Legion CSM that is not a worshipper of Chaos? My favorite Traitor Legions are Night Lords and Iron Warriors and both of them are fairly indifferent if not hostile to Chaos itself. Do you have to choose one of the four Chaos gods for your CSM to worship? Or can you simply be a CSM that only wants to fight the Long War?

 

yeah, undivided.

 

Black Crusade has AMAZINGLY few requirements on what Chaotics do.

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Maybe because Imperium requires only the slightest hints to excommunicate you, making alliance with chaos followers one of your best survival options.

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Maybe because Imperium requires only the slightest hints to excommunicate you, making alliance with chaos followers one of your best survival options.

 

Plus, you know, tentacles.

 

Undivided is for either people who wish to "master chaos" (good luck) and reach abbadon/lorgar levels of awesome or those who try and reject it as much as possible. Or who think all branches of chaos are brilliant and don't want to offend any of the gods by excluding them (most word bearers fall into this category).

 

In which case, get tome of decay and sign up for the Gal Vorbak!

 

 

But yeah, ultimately nothing in the rules forces you to do anything. If you decide you want to start secretly helping the imperium, go with it. Just hope neither your former allies nor current patrons find out.

 

Perhaps even more than Rogue Trader, Black Crusade is the ultimate 40k RPG sandbox. Whatever you want goes, and that applies to morality, philosophy and the laws of physics as well as just your approach to specific tasks in game.

 

You'll note that the endless threads about female space marines in the Deathwatch forums don't pop up here. You want to be a female space marine? fine.

 

"But females can't accept astartes implants!"

"That guy over there has burning daemon ichor for blood and fangs growing out the side of a tail he shouldn't have in the first place and you want to argue the finer points of biochemistry?"

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Perhaps even more than Rogue Trader, Black Crusade is the ultimate 40k RPG sandbox. Whatever you want goes, and that applies to morality, philosophy and the laws of physics as well as just your approach to specific tasks in game.

And I wouldn't want it any other way.

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\\You'll note that the endless threads about female space marines in the Deathwatch forums don't pop up here. You want to be a female space marine? fine.

 

"But females can't accept astartes implants!"

"That guy over there has burning daemon ichor for blood and fangs growing out the side of a tail he shouldn't have in the first place and you want to argue the finer points of biochemistry?"

 

 

Mainly because you can play a Noise Marine who insists on being referred to as 'she' and no-one is going to disagree with you, because you're a ******* Noise Marine.

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Maybe because Imperium requires only the slightest hints to excommunicate you, making alliance with chaos followers one of your best survival options.

 

Plus, you know, tentacles.

 

"That guy over there has burning daemon ichor for blood and fangs growing out the side of a tail he shouldn't have in the first place and you want to argue the finer points of biochemistry?"

 

I wish they had included either a lot more mutations (tonnes are referenced in the novels) or made more of the mutations an idea rather than set in stone aka table says "weird eyes" instead of "Burning eyes" and then the GM gets to inflict his imagination on the player.

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There's a 'random manifestations' in the Dark Heresy Daemonhunter book which helps.

It's essentially a generate-your-own-daemon table, which makes for interesting allies, foes and minions.

 

My favourite result is "The Beast With A Thousand [Roll on subtable]..." followed by essentially a complete list of body-parts.

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There's a 'random manifestations' in the Dark Heresy Daemonhunter book which helps.

It's essentially a generate-your-own-daemon table, which makes for interesting allies, foes and minions.

 

My favourite result is "The Beast With A Thousand [Roll on subtable]..." followed by essentially a complete list of body-parts.

 

If I did that, I'd roll tentacles for sure...  Know how much you love those.   :P

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Better that, than the favorite parts of Slaanesh. :)

You're talking about taste buds right? <_<

 

Sure, naturally ! ;)

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Ultimately, alignment isn't necessarily how the PC feels about Chaos, it's about how Chaos feels about the PC. If you're aligned, then one of the Chaos Gods has decided to LIKE you, and they're not particularly interested in your opinion on the matter. Similarly you may think Slaanesh is the Bee's Knees, but if you're unaligned, Slaanesh doesn't think anything much about you. 

 

That said, there's no reason fully embracing Chaos or one of the gods needs to be over-the-top cartoonish. You can do it in very deep and serious ways by delving instead into the consciousness, thoughts, and feelings that come with that kind of devotion and how the PC, as a person, experiences that. It can be a complex and nuanced experience, it doesn't have to just be "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!" all the time.

Edited by DanteInferno
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Ultimately, alignment isn't necessarily how the PC feels about Chaos, it's about how Chaos feels about the PC. If you're aligned, then one of the Chaos Gods has decided to LIKE you, and they're not particularly interested in your opinion on the matter. Similarly you may think Slaanesh is the Bee's Knees, but if you're unaligned, Slaanesh doesn't think anything much about you. 

 

Exactly so. You'll notice that when they decide to give you 'gifts' you don't get much of a say in the matter!

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Slightly O/T but reading this I finally understand why it is so much harder to get a mutation you want when aligned. It's because they'll offer you more shinies if they're afraid you might hook up with their rivals.

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