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The_Brown_Bomber

Do you use at least one big ship in your top squad?

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1) Do you use at least one big ship in your top squad?

 

2) If you do what support ships do u prefer?

 

Most Falcon builds iv seen seem to prfer the two rookie x-wings in support.

Despite firepower of the intercepters its still possible to play an effective squad without any in your team.

seems like if you do not go with a large ship, you now have the points to put into missiles as your countermeasures against them.

i personally feel that the best squads have versatility - they have enough firepower to take down a large ship as a group and they can also work well as individual ships when they need to.

I really like the imperial build that uses slave1 + 4 ties (howlrunner/swarm+3 academy pilots) purely because it has options… sure without howrunner it becomes considerably less powerful but that many ties can still cause problems running interference with big enemy ships, buying time for the slave1 to line up its targets.

has the metagame become big ships versus squads designed to kill big ships?

thoughts?

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My main Falcon build uses Lando with Dutch and Garven. All three get focus + target lock, and 2 ships have turrets.

My Han builds use either 2 rookie pilots, or a combination of x- and a-wings.

 

With the firespray, I mix it up a lot. Vader sometimes, but usually interceptors or regular TIE.

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For the hp/cost ratio, you almost need one in your squad. That being said, there are a lot of large base ship counter squads in both factions that are successful as well. That is one of the great things about wave 2, for every squad, there is a good counter squad.

I am playing firesprays (yes plural) more often, and having some success with them. My support ships are usually Dark Curse, Backstabber, or Mauler.

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My latest squadron:





  • Kath Scarlet (Engine Upgrade, Heavy Laser Cannon, Gunner, Marksmanship)





  • Turr Phennir (Push the Limit)





  • Night Beast





It's fun and lost of maneuverability. I don't think it's as powerful as the Millennium Falcon builds, but is more of a finesse build.


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how about a 2 Falcon build like this…

Han Solo + Gunner + determination

Chewie + Gunner + veteren instincts

thats alot of hull and shields to get through, id say on average you could expect chewie to dish out more damage that two x-wings because u usually use an x-wing pretty early on… after it gets off say two attacks leaving u with a single x-wing flying support for Han.

i would try and fly them both withing medium range of my intended targets but on opposite sides of the enemy allowing me to concentrate fire and forcing them to split their resources to cover both my ships. id even consider Draw their fire on Chewie to allows a mid-late game team-up as id expect them to go for han first so chewie might need him to take some of the heat once his shields are gone and he is eating hull damage.

thoughts?

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The_Brown_Bomber said:

how about a 2 Falcon build like this…

Han Solo + Gunner + determination

Chewie + Gunner + veteren instincts

thats alot of hull and shields to get through, id say on average you could expect chewie to dish out more damage that two x-wings because u usually use an x-wing pretty early on… after it gets off say two attacks leaving u with a single x-wing flying support for Han.

i would try and fly them both withing medium range of my intended targets but on opposite sides of the enemy allowing me to concentrate fire and forcing them to split their resources to cover both my ships. id even consider Draw their fire on Chewie to allows a mid-late game team-up as id expect them to go for han first so chewie might need him to take some of the heat once his shields are gone and he is eating hull damage.

thoughts?

 

i saw this 2 falcon build recently and really liked it…

 

Han Solo + Gunner + draw their fire

Chewie + Gunner + draw their fire

… what do u take down first? probably han? flying both falcons at range1 could be tricky, especially with asteroids close by but sharing your damage and crits between both ships is probably worth the hassle imo. i still like determination on han tho as it keeps one nasty crit off him early.

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DoubleNot7 said:

There is a local regionals even coming up.  I'm considering bringing two Bounty Hunter - Firesprays to the mix.

I highly recommend Engine Upgrade for the Firespray.

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Sunsteel said:

DoubleNot7 said:

 

There is a local regionals even coming up.  I'm considering bringing two Bounty Hunter - Firesprays to the mix.

 

 

I highly recommend Engine Upgrade for the Firespray.

 

Absolutely!  I have run these two together already and they were very effective:

 

(2) Firespray Bounty Hunter

Cluster Missiles

Heavy Laser cannon

Seismic Charges

Engine Upgrade

 

Total: 100 points

 

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Picasso said:

Also 4 rookie pilots with shield upgrades most of the time will beat a large ship list.

id want wedge with swarm tactics if i was running 4 x-wings. you pilot skills r too low to survive their first alpha strike. i also think engine upgrade on wedge would be very good although i havent tested it yet.

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I've tested the four rooks with shields.  Works great.  low skill doesnt matter so much because all your ships are the same and have staying power.  I survived two heavy cannon blasts and tore one firespray apart with the return fire.  I'm going back to "Name pilots are over rated."

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4xwings firing 12 dice average 6 hits w/o focus or target lock. 9 hits with focus/target lock at range 2-3.

4x wings firing 16 dice averages 8 hits w/0 focus or target lock. 12 with focus/target lock at range 1. 

falcon dodging has a 3/8 chance w/o focus. that's 1.5 pts at ranged 1-2. 3 points dodged at range 3.

 

Either of those alphas will not one round a falcon with average dice. they can spike either way.

This also doesn't talk much about the ability to get out of fire arcs or park on other models to provent shooting.

 

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Prevenge said:

 

4xwings firing 12 dice average 6 hits w/o focus or target lock. 9 hits with focus/target lock at range 2-3.

4x wings firing 16 dice averages 8 hits w/0 focus or target lock. 12 with focus/target lock at range 1. 

falcon dodging has a 3/8 chance w/o focus. that's 1.5 pts at ranged 1-2. 3 points dodged at range 3.

 

Either of those alphas will not one round a falcon with average dice. they can spike either way.

This also doesn't talk much about the ability to get out of fire arcs or park on other models to provent shooting.

 

 

 

well if i have wedge i dish more damage and with swarm my supporting rookies fire before most enemy ships, except vader/soontir or 7/8 skill pilots with veteren instincts. i prefer taking out ships before they get to return fire where i can, so name pilots r far from overrated… some upgrades on them certainly r. its about getting bang for your buck. i agree that making all your ships the same creates a 'who do i attack first?' scenario but having at least one name pilot in your team works just fine. to support your choice of 4 X-Wings, this is a solid squad… i flew Wedge + Red Squadron + 2 Rookie X-Wings at my local kessel run event last year and placed 3rd… having the same record as one player who made it to the finals, i had beaten his 6-ship imperial build very narrowly (vader, howlrunner, 4 standard tie-fighters). I had tested quite a bit with my friend who was the other player to make the finals (he was running 6 ties, 4 were black squadron pilots with marksmanship, the other two were name pilots (dark curse and howrunner). i convinced him to use howrunner at the last minute, he didnt realise how good it was. i ended up losing to my friend that day but i was happy to see hi go on and win the tourney (he took the Falcon and gave it to me as id lent him the imperial squad he used and paid for his entry into the tourney :)

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@Brown

I'm not saying the Wedge list is bad.  It's not.   My Cuz uses it.  He wins with it.  He was destroying Swarms with it in wave one.  I just know if I have Wedge in a game he is a BIG target.  EVERYTHING is coming at him.  You are lucky to get two rounds of shooting out of him.  

@Prevenge

Who said anything about one rounding a Falcon?  Also your math doesn't take into account crits.  When you start stacking up things like reduce your pilot skill to zero, agility by 1, Primary weapon by 1, that ship is done.  That is a BIG part of taking down a big ship.

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Picasso said:

 

@Brown

I'm not saying the Wedge list is bad.  It's not.   My Cuz uses it.  He wins with it.  He was destroying Swarms with it in wave one.  I just know if I have Wedge in a game he is a BIG target.  EVERYTHING is coming at him.  You are lucky to get two rounds of shooting out of him.  

@Prevenge

Who said anything about one rounding a Falcon?  Also your math doesn't take into account crits.  When you start stacking up things like reduce your pilot skill to zero, agility by 1, Primary weapon by 1, that ship is done.  That is a BIG part of taking down a big ship.

 

 

 

yeah u havta b pretty ballsy to go with wedge with all that wave2 firepower out there now. if u do u would be wise to throw a shield upgrad or engine upgrade on him as well as an astromech… catch 22 is the more upgrades hes got the more points he is worth! turns out the Falcon has the same issue, except it has 5 shields and 8 hull to keep it firing. Chewie with Draw Their Fire would be decent wingman for wedge :) i know lots of people swear by Biggs as the sacrificial lamb… is that what ur friends uses?

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I know people who ues Biggs.  I find that they tie up most of their points in him and Wedge gets little upgrades or they sacrifice the fourth ship.  I hardly play Biggs.  My Cuz never plays Biggs.  This is my reason.  Even with R2-F2 and Stealth, his chances of surviving two Homeing Missiles is no good.

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On rounding the falcon is the definition of ALPHA STRIKE. An Alpha strike is when you attack first to remove  potential resources used in retaliation.  If you don't kill the yt-1300(which was your alpha strike target), and it shoots back, you've failed the alpha.

 

Not to pick fights or anything, but adding more and more options/upgrades on top of the 4 x-wings stated to validate the point, kind of makes the assumption that I don't put more points/upgrades into protecting my rather large points investment which is really silly.  to farther compund this 8 point upgrade, wedge's reduction of one defence dice  for one roll may equate to at most 1 extra hit, possibly a crit. FOr an 8 point investment of upgrades on my side, that's one shield upgrade(or chewbacca co-pilot),, 2 draw their fire, and an elusivness di9ffrence, which goes a long away to increase my survivability.

Anywho, I appologize if it sounds like I'm trying to say that you can't win or are wrong. I'm not. I'm trying to say that you aren't at as huge of an advantage as you make it out to be. the game is fairly balanced, and for the mathamatical equivelent amount of work that 2 rounds of shooting does in a vaccum to take out an  a falcon, is the same amount that I provide to take out 2 x-wings. it comes down to a bit of player skill and a game or rock-paper-scissors with list construction and upgrades.

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@Prevenge

I agree with you that this game depends on your ability to fly.  I played a 250 point game today and lost because of my inability to fly with 20 ships on the table.  

That being said, WHO IN THEIR CRAZY MIND IS GOING TO TRY AND ONE ROUND A FALCON????  Other threads have talked about 

The big thing about taking out two X-wings over taking out a large base ship is that dropping the two x-wings is less attack dice coming back into you in the following turns.  Use "Han Shoots first."  This list has nine dice for attack.  Flying against this list I fly the following.

 

Green Squadron Pilot + Homing Missiles + Push the Limit (27)

Green Squadron Pilot + Homing Missiles + Push the Limit (27)

Red Squadron Pilot (23)

Red Squadron Pilot (23)

 

I target the X-wings first for two reasons, they shoot after everything in my list and second I have a chance to drop both of them before they shoot.  I have each X-wing shoot a rookie X-wing.  If this goes well I strip the shields off of both of them or at least do one hit.  Next the A-wings go and shoot their homing missiles.  These missiles should do three if not four hits to each X-wing  worst case they only do 2.  (Yes I know it is possible to do zero hits.  Honestly I've played this countless times and have yet to do less than two damage with the homing missile.)  Worst case now is my opponent has one clean Falcon and two crippled X-wings.  Best case I dropped both of the rookies.  

If I go in with four X-wings with shield upgrades I'm shooting at the same time as the rooks in the Han list but with four extra hit points and two less dice in the first assault.  I'm trading attack dice for guaranteed staying power.  Even if I take a name pilot and sacrifice the shields I'm rolling the same amount of dice in my first attack.  

Also Wedge can't "one shot" an X-wing in the first round of shooting even if he rolls like the devil (Crit, Crit, Crit).  So those four X-wings will ALL get at least one shot off.  One round of shooting most likely ALL into Wedge.  I'll trade a 25 point rook for a 30+ named pilot.  Again comes down to how you fly but I've played this out countless times now and it ends the same over and over again no matter who I am playing against.  

However back to the original question that started this, you NEED at least one big ship to win tourney games in the current wave.

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