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KidChainsaw

Authority of Individual Inquisitors

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Let me preface this by saying that I haven't read any of the 40k novels....just the fluff from the mini's game and DH itself.

Now, how much authority does an individual Inquisitor actually have? I remember reading from old school 40k (back when the mini's game was a single book named Rogue Trader) that they have enough authority to coopt entire Astartes companies (100+ Space Marines), can countermand anyone up to (and possibly including) a High Lord of Terra, have the Officio Assasinorum at their beck and call (to the tune of having Eversors reserved in cryo "on call"), and can even have a planet magnamelta-ed/viral bombed with a single request.

Obviously, if this were the case they wouldn't be relying on PC's of DH power level if all of this were true.

Now I know that the ultimate answer to this question is that the Inquistors in my game have as much power as makes the story interesting and challenging for the players -- but what do you think? How do you handle it?

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All of the following is my interpretation.

Inquisitors can get pretty much what they want from almost anybody. This is less what their official authority is and more a factor of "Well if I don't help him then I could be called a Traitor and executed". Remember that the Inquistor can pretty much execute anyone he wants with very little oversight, so it would be easy for him to say that, lets say, a planetary govenor was obstructing him by not giving him a regiment of the PDF to do a job.

Now the Officio assassinorum has treaties with Ordos and also 'Favours' owed to individual Inquistors for past assistance. This means that whilst they are not bound by Imperial law to assist every junior Inquisitor who asks for a hit they will normally give reasonable assistant on request.

Space Marines are a law unto themselves. Other then the Ordo Xenos commanding the Deathwath and the Ordo Malleus with the Grey Knights, The Adeptus Astartes can pretty much do what they want. I seem to recall some fluff a long time ago about Inquisitors looking into the Dark Angels disappearing.

Hope this gives you some guidance

Alex

 

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I like this quote:

I carry with me an Inquisitorial Seal. It is a small, unassuming object contained in a neat box of Pluvian obsidian. It is a modest thing. Relatively plain, adorned with a single motif and a simple motto. Yet with this little object I can sign the death warrant of an entire world and consign a billion souls to Oblivion.”
Thravian Flas, Inquisitor of the Ordo Malleus.
 

Officially as I understand it any Inquistor has effectively unlimited authority - technically - but it often does not work like that due to:

1) Need to be more careful around massively powerful organisations like the Astartes and the Mechanicus - the Inquisitor often calls upon favours or pacts with these groups or is at least polite.  He or she can demand obediance but may not get the correct reaction which brings me onto...........

2) Danger - He or she can make the demands but needs to be careful to be in a position where they can not just be "disappeared"

3) Sometimes another Inquisitor can dispute their authority - this is likely to be considered bad form but is not unknown.

4) "With unlimited power comes unlimited responsability" - whils they can demand anything - they must be aware of the consequences - there are often rivals looking to bring them to book for abuses of power and when one has lived for centuries these can mount up.

5) many - (most?) Inquisitors actually are trying to act in the best interests of the Imperium and must therefore measure their demands and actions against any potential disruption or consequence which might match or even exceed the very thing they are acting against.  Although of course a lack of action or too limited an action may be equally dangerous.....

does that help?

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The authority of an Inquisitor stops shortly before the high senate.

 

Their authority over an  Imperial Warmaster is limited.

 

Thy´ve none over the AdMech, the Adeptus Astartes and the Navigators.

 

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warpdancer said:

 

Thy´ve none over the AdMech, the Adeptus Astartes and the Navigators.

 

 

hmm really, thats not how I underrstand it? 

Admech - there is the Treaty of Mars which grants semi independance - but Inquisitors can impose their will - but they better have a **** good reason and the means / will to back it up.  I see it more like the interaction between MI5 and 6............

Astartes - Technically, they have full Authority over them - but again better have that good reason and backing to do more than make a formal polite request of them.  Demands on the Asartes are not normally a good idea.  Of course the Asartes themselves tend to carefully consider that a correctly worded request by an Inqusitor is a difficiult (and dangerous) thing to turn down.  It might have consquences in the future.....

Navigators - full authority and have previously purged the Great Houses on a number of occassions - but only exercise their power when have to - its likely to be too disruptive to the Imperium. 

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Da Boss said:

Admech - there is the Treaty of Mars which grants semi independance

AFAIK  the treaty grants them independence, Inquisitors have neither the right to give them orders, nor the power, the same goes for the space marines,

I remember the interview with one of the authors, an Inquisitors Authority is limited by the goodwill of the people he uses them on.

Uriel Ventris refused Inquisaitor Kryptmans wishes and nearly executed him, for  not following his orders.

There was no reaction for this, and that doesn`t put in the Space Wolves reaction after the termination of the cticens of Armaggeddon.

Navigators - the Inquisition is normally reduced to manipulation, intrigue and such clandestine manners to hold them under control

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yes and no

polite requests, manipulation, intrigue and such clandestine manners are normally used against all three as more effective

The Ad Mechanicus is a grey area - I also recall a number of instances where the Inquisition has compelled the AM to carry out their orders but usually this as request - as I mentioned.

The Astartes do technically fall under the Inqusition and a number of Chapters have been purged by them (usually with the assistance of other Chapters) - they are not beyond the reach of the Inqusition.  They can resist but if the Inquisitor has the backing he can impose his or her will............. its just not easy or taken lightly.

Navigators - they have Full Authority as seen in many interactions and the purges carried out against even the most powerful Navigator houses.

re the speciifc example of Armegeddon - the Space Marine Commanders were outraged and bitter about the Inqusitions handling of the survivors but did nothing about it............to do so would be to risk their own Chapters being declared traitor and also potentially draga large part of the Imperium down...........

Again Kryptmann was not executed - Marines do sometimes disobey the Inqusition but not lightly and if I recall correctly his own heriearchy had to consider the consequences of defying the Inqusition.

to be honest for the ost part I think niether side desires confrontation - its not worth it - for the most part they work together - not easily and often through a mulitude of pacts, favours and inter-relationships.

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I want to see Rus own Chapter declared heretic.demonio.gif

I remember one chapter so eliminated after it has fallen to mutation beyond the pale.

IIRC Ventris said NO! Final, and after Kryptman did it marched in and had killed him, if not the deathwatch captain had interferred, but not one of the ultramarins said Vetris made a mistake or did something wrong, but when he went with the deathwatch against the tyrandids his second sargeant considered it wrong beyond the pale.

Requesting something isn`t the same as ordering it.

 

Against the Navigators they´re limited normally.

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To answer the OP question, the reason an Inquisitor needs Acolytes is simply he can't be everywhere at once.


A galaxy of Heretics, Corruption, Witches and Xenos makes for a big "To purge" list.


Wiping out a planet requires a lot of justification and is a horrible waste of resource’s. As people have mentioned the Astartes are independent and require some convincing (plus they're hardly subtle) and besides there's practically no Astartes presence in the Calixis sector. Also from the fluff I’ve read it seems planetary governors, Mechanicus and a lot of big organisations can tie up an Inquisitor in red tape bureaucracy delaying things.


A lot of undercover infiltration is required so teams of Acolytes skilled in this are useful. Most times the minute a cult is aware there's Inquisitors sniffing about they flee and set up shop elsewhere. Finally it doesn’t hurt to have few specialists and disposable staff to do things for you or be your shield in a fire fight. gui%C3%B1o.gif

 

 

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I'm no 40K expert, but it seems like it would be a precarious balance. The Inquisitor has generic "snoop around, expose and eliminate heresy" authority. But the exercise of that authority seems to depend partly on other people cooperating. Naturally some will cooperate out of goodwill, and many more out of fear (since the more insignicant you are, the easier it is for an Inquisitor to destroy you... nobody is going to raise an eyebrow if an Inquisitor kills a ventillation duct cleaner and calls him a cultist). If someone chooses not to cooperate, then the gauntlet is in a sense thrown down. The Inquisitor can probably usually have them arrested and tortured, but that may be dangerous if they're powerful.

Calling an Exterminatus seems like it really requires the cooperation of the Navy. So say you call one and then, when you are supposed to make your case to the admiralty, you don't have any evidence and they regard your claims with suspicion. Then I imagine they'll delay you while they send someone to the subsector Inquisitor Lord to appeal. The Inquisitor Lord, for sake of politics, will almost certainly have to "look into it" or else relations with the Navy will get really chilly. So the Inquisitor Lord looks into it; maybe he overrules you.

If you get overruled by your boss too many times, that fact might get around. Suddenly you won't be so scary anymore. And your boss might come up with fun little assignments for you, like rooting out the Garbage Cult of Trashulon IV (if he likes you and just needs to make you eat some humble pie)... or maybe a really dangerous assignment (if he doesn't like you and wants you to either get killed or start pulling your weight).

Politically, the whole question seems really complicated and interesting.

 

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Darkshroud said:

Wiping out a planet requires a lot of justification and is a horrible waste of resource’s.

Not only that, an Inquisitors career could find itself on a great setback if s/he invoke Exterminatus on an entire world. Exterminatus is considered as the ultimate faliure by the majority of Inquisitors, and having to request one will certainly not look good in the eyes of the rest of the Ordos, since the Inquisitor signing it will be constantly harrassed by remarks of hindsight ("If you've just did THIS instead of THAT, none of this would've happened..." etc. etc.), not to mention under a lot of scrutiny from his colleagues (after all, someone willing to sacrifice billions of innocent lives without as much as flinching might be treading the path of radicalism).

A skilled Inquisitor shouldn't have to resort to such unsubtle methods lightly...

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Also remember the Inquisitions purpose is to hunt down the secret and hidden threats to the Imperium, both within and without.  If it's a big obvious invasion/rebellion then just point the AA, AS, and IG at it and fight it out.  The inquisition needs to be able to gather intelligence, do clandestine ops, etc.

The inquisitor needs acolytes to go poke around and look and see if something is an actual threat or just an odd coincidence.  Also there are many threats to the Imperium that the Imperium and particularly the Inquisition do not want the average citizen to even be aware exist.  This requires agents who aren't big planet busters or invasion fleets.  Not every problem can be solved by smashing it with a hammer. 

Also some problems are smaller than others and it would be a waste or resorces to send a fully trained Officio Assassinorum operative or Space Marine company after every punk cult leader who thinks he can summon a nurgling. 

Thats where low-level acolytes come in,  Initial investigation/problem assessment (kind of like uniform cops being sent to canvas a neighborhood to find out if there's anything the detectives need to look at.) and dealing with problems that need to be kep secret, but are (at least believed to be) minor enough not to warrant sending more senior/powerful acolytes or the inquisitor himself. (kind of like the heresy equivalent of traffic stops.)

Sometimes these things turn out to be much bigger than expected (kind of like a rookie cop pulling over a van for having a busted headlight only to find out the van is packed w/ 50 kilos of crystal meth, a kidnap victim, and 6 tweaked drug dealers armed with SMGs).

The more trusted/senior/competent/powerful an acolyte group becomes the bigger and more important tasks they're sent to deal with.

Add into this all the political tensions and niceties covered so neatly by the above posts, and you have many varied and complex reasons for using acolytes.

So while yes an technically has the authority to do whatever he deem in in the interest of the Imperium, including blowing up worlds, he may or may not have the ability (for example: the big guns, navy, SM, Assassins, whoever are 3 planets away and we need this done now) or may need to keep things quiet or have political cosiderations and so on. 

What it all comes down to in the end is resource management.

Use the right tool for the right job, unless the right tool isn't availible, then use the best fit of the tools you have and do the best you can.

 

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Varnias Tybalt said:

Darkshroud said:

 

Wiping out a planet requires a lot of justification and is a horrible waste of resource’s.

 

 

Not only that, an Inquisitors career could find itself on a great setback if s/he invoke Exterminatus on an entire world. Exterminatus is considered as the ultimate faliure by the majority of Inquisitors, and having to request one will certainly not look good in the eyes of the rest of the Ordos, since the Inquisitor signing it will be constantly harrassed by remarks of hindsight ("If you've just did THIS instead of THAT, none of this would've happened..." etc. etc.), not to mention under a lot of scrutiny from his colleagues (after all, someone willing to sacrifice billions of innocent lives without as much as flinching might be treading the path of radicalism).

A skilled Inquisitor shouldn't have to resort to such unsubtle methods lightly...

For many Inquisitors the failure wouldn't be about innocent lives, but about lost Imperial resources.  Wiping out a planet is like burning down a factory to kill the rats.  Sure you don't have rats in the factory any more, but you don't have a factory either, and that's going to put a dent in the corporate bottom line.

Sure some of the more idealistic Inquisitors will be up in arms about innocent life lost, but either way Exterminatus is only to be considered if the risk posed by not destroying all life on the planet is greater than total present and prospective value of everything on the planet. 

(point being I agree w/ Darkshourd about =][= response to exterminatus, I just don't think loss of innocent life would be the issue for many perfectly loyal puritan Inquisitors) 

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DocIII said:

 

 

For many Inquisitors the failure wouldn't be about innocent lives, but about lost Imperial resources.  Wiping out a planet is like burning down a factory to kill the rats.  Sure you don't have rats in the factory any more, but you don't have a factory either, and that's going to put a dent in the corporate bottom line.

Sure some of the more idealistic Inquisitors will be up in arms about innocent life lost, but either way Exterminatus is only to be considered if the risk posed by not destroying all life on the planet is greater than total present and prospective value of everything on the planet. 

(point being I agree w/ Darkshourd about =][= response to exterminatus, I just don't think loss of innocent life would be the issue for many perfectly loyal puritan Inquisitors) 

The lives in question are also rescources are they not? A factory doesnt work itself. Sure the people aren't considered to be more than cattle, but considering the fact that it takes quite a while (centuries) to settle a new world and getting the population to grow to optimum numbers in producing whatever it is that particular world produces. Quite simply an innocent life lost means a capabel worker lost. Not much to whine about of course, but when that number reaches billions, when it could have been substantially lower had the Inquisitor done his/her job properly then its a big deal. Sure concepts of "basic human value" are utterly incomperhensible to the poeple of WH40K, but in bulk numbers,people do hold a value as a workforce.

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Exactly my point. 

What I was getting at was that "sacrifice billions of innocent lives without as much as flinching might be treading the path of radicalism" makes it sound as if the concern is a sanctity of life/justice for the innocent issue leaning toward radicalism.  While this may be true of more "good guy" "pro-human rights" inquisitors; for a big chunk, who are as puritan as they come, pain/death inflicted on the innocent and sanctity of life don't mean a thing in their viewing the situation.  Where they find fault is in loss of resources (workers, etc.) to the Imperium.

Radicalism is about using the darkness to fight the darkness (whether we're talking chaos, alien technology, heretical human developments, whatever) or other deviations from the Imperial Creed, not about killing people. 

My point being that the viewing of intrinsic value of a given set of human lives as being more or less important, or whether killing innocent people for a bigger purpose is worthwhile can be found on both sides of the Puritan/Radical divide.  Some Radicals become radicals because they consider compromise that protects the innocent more important than sticking hard line to the Imperial Creed.  Others are just twisted psychos, and everything in between.

 

 

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DocIII sums them up nicely................Inquisitors have to weigh up number of lives taken vs saved all the time - even the sympathetic are just as likely to use Exterminus if it is required. Amberely is probably the most pleasent Inqusitor depicted but she is prepared to let genestealers infect Tau and go home and even Cain is fairly sure she would sacrifice him as and when is neccesary.   

I feel they will all do whatever is required to get the job done - thats what they are all about.  How callous they become varies from Inquisitor to Inquistor and likely depends on what loses they have taken in their service.

Give Jack Baur an Inquistiorial Seal and consider what he might be capable of...............in the name of saving and serving the Imperium

 

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IMPOV the ressorces of the =][= itself are fairly limited, they need the support of the Adeptus Terra and the Astartes and the AdMech etc.

 

In one of Abnetts Battlefleet Gothic Novels it is clear the Navy officers of the Fleet don`t like the =][= in the last, an Admiral tells an Inquisitor(i would think an Lord but there is no prove for it) he and his advice is neither wanted, needed or necessary.

And if some Inquisitor come to me and order me to exterminate a space marine world, especially Fenris i would ask to be transferred to a safe post, like the border to the dark eldar, i don`t think  a Squadron of the Navy had what is needed to take an SM Fleet out.

 

I Mr I comes to another chapter he must prove his order is necessary.

 

 

 

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warpdancer said:

IMPOV the ressorces of the =][= itself are fairly limited, they need the support of the Adeptus Terra and the Astartes and the AdMech etc.

 

In one of Abnetts Battlefleet Gothic Novels it is clear the Navy officers of the Fleet don`t like the =][= in the last, an Admiral tells an Inquisitor(i would think an Lord but there is no prove for it) he and his advice is neither wanted, needed or necessary.

And if some Inquisitor come to me and order me to exterminate a space marine world, especially Fenris i would ask to be transferred to a safe post, like the border to the dark eldar, i don`t think  a Squadron of the Navy had what is needed to take an SM Fleet out.

 

I Mr I comes to another chapter he must prove his order is necessary.

I might argue with a few of your pointshappy.gif

The resources of the the Inquisition are infinite, as far as the Imperium of Man is concerned, what they want they get! Add you must add to that their own ships, soldiers (Inquisitorial Stromtroopers) and special forces (Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights & Deathwatch).

The novel that you mention is not by Abnett but Gordon Rennie (and called 'Shadow Point'); the inquisitor is Horst and the admiral is none other than Lord Admiral Cornelius Ravensburg, commader of the entire Battlefleet Gothic. A good point of the power of the inquisition is the Horst can walk right in to Ravensburg's strategium chamber, in the heart of his own flagship, in the middle of the Gothic War (aka the 12th Balck Crusade) and demand an audience, and get it. Later Horst says "an inquisitor has the entire resources of the Imperium to draw on"; of course the fact that Ravensburg has orderd three capital ships plus an escort squadron to be put at Horst's disposal is sort of proves the pointgran_risa.gif    

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Traveller61 said:

 

The resources of the the Inquisition are infinite, as far as the Imperium of Man is concerned, what they want they get! Add you must add to that their own ships, soldiers (Inquisitorial Stromtroopers) and special forces (Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights & Deathwatch).

 

 

Except when it comes to the Adeptus Mechanicus and Adeptus Astartes (being self governed entities in the political spectrum of the Imperium of man). Besides, if a lone Inquisitor gets in way over his head s/he might find his- or herself assassinated. (which is why radical Inquisitors aren't just able to commandeer warfleets to wage their own little wars, since they dont have the backing of their respective sector conclaves).

Sure an Inquisitor can try to get what they want by force with every organisation within the Imperium of Man. But if a Magos of the Adeptus Mechanicus, or a Space Marine Commander isn't in the right mood for Inquisitorial upstarts long away from home and support, the Inquisitor will probably be in for a surprise.

This being true especially in the case of the Adeptus Mechanicus because Inquisitors (in almost every piece of WH40K litterature concerning them) often complain about the Adeptus Mechanicus not cooperating, but its not like the Inquisition can do much about it because they would finde themselves without EVERYTHING vital for EVERY organisation to function properly. That being technology. :)

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Varnias Tybalt said:

 

Except when it comes to the Adeptus Mechanicus and Adeptus Astartes (being self governed entities in the political spectrum of the Imperium of man). Besides, if a lone Inquisitor gets in way over his head s/he might find his- or herself assassinated. (which is why radical Inquisitors aren't just able to commandeer warfleets to wage their own little wars, since they dont have the backing of their respective sector conclaves).

Sure an Inquisitor can try to get what they want by force with every organisation within the Imperium of Man. But if a Magos of the Adeptus Mechanicus, or a Space Marine Commander isn't in the right mood for Inquisitorial upstarts long away from home and support, the Inquisitor will probably be in for a surprise.

This being true especially in the case of the Adeptus Mechanicus because Inquisitors (in almost every piece of WH40K litterature concerning them) often complain about the Adeptus Mechanicus not cooperating, but its not like the Inquisition can do much about it because they would finde themselves without EVERYTHING vital for EVERY organisation to function properly. That being technology. :)

 

Even the Ad Mech and the Astartes come under the authority of the Inquisition. If an Inquisitor orders a Marine Force Commander to do something, he is technically obliged to do it. Likewise the Ad Mech. If either disobey the order, then their only recourse is to appeal to another Inquisitor.

But (most) Inquisitors aren't stupid. Abuse of power wins you few friends and ultimately what determines the authority of one Inquisitor over another is how many friends he has. If two Inquisitors give conflicting orders, the subjects involved will have to choose who they want to obey... and they'll obey the one they respect more.

 

Why do Inquisitors need acolytes? Because they need servants. They need faceless, unknown mooks to investigate minor cults, in case they turn out to be not-so-minor.They need eyes-and-ears everywhere. Some do just rely on other Imperial agencies to supply them with that kind of info. But most like to have their own people, people they have chosen themselves, whose every strength and weakness they know already. Those are the acolytes.

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Traveller61 said:

 

 

I might argue with a few of your pointshappy.gif

be my guest.

I remember an interview with on of the authors of DH where he said an Inquisitor is needing the goodwill of the other Imperial organisations.

Yes Shadow Point was the name, thank you for the correction, the admiral i meant was from Ravensburgs Staff.

 

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warpdancer said:

Traveller61 said:

 

  I might argue with a few of your pointshappy.gif

 

be my guest.

 

I remember an interview with on of the authors of DH where he said an Inquisitor is needing the goodwill of the other Imperial organisations.

Yes Shadow Point was the name, thank you for the correction, the admiral i meant was from Ravensburgs Staff.

 

I dug out my copy of Shadow Point but I could not find the words of the admiral from Ravensburg's staff; maybe I just need to reread the book again rather than skim the chapters. But you were right about Horst, he was a Lord Inquisitor; and when referring to one of the staff admirals comments and attitudes his thoughts were that although he had the power to crush the man the he needed to make allies of them, not enemies.

DW

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warpdancer said:

Traveller61 said:

 

 

 

I remember an interview with on of the authors of DH where he said an Inquisitor is needing the goodwill of the other Imperial organisations.

 

Of course they need the goodwill of the other organisations... in practice. Technically, they have the authority to do whatever they want. An Inquisitor can order the execution of a High Lord of Terra, such is their power.

But in practice it doesn't work that way. If an organisation doesn't like you and you order them to do something they don't like, then they'll drag their heels while they send a message to the nearest Inquisitor they do likeThey'll tell the other Inquisitor what you're doing and ask him to give them an order to do something else. For example:

 

=I= A: Send your fleet to wipe out all life on that planet!!!

=I= B: Send your fleet to the edge of the system and await further orders.

Naval Officer: Well, since my wife and kids are on that planet and I've always wanted to see what the edge of the system looks like....

 

An Inquisitor who is constantly flouting his authority steps on a lot of toes. Those toes may be less than 100% helpful in future. And that leads to heretics escaping, aliens ravaging your worlds and daemons turning people into ducks.

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Maybe.

 

In my mind, the Inquisition's chief weapon is fear. Um, fear and surprise. I doubt that said authority would know another inquisitor, let alone be in decent contact with them. When the Witch-finder comes round, you do as he says in case he decides that you are a heretic. An Inquisitor is the living incarnation of the Emperor's Will. If he decides he needs a battleship, he gets a battleship. Drag your heels if you like, but you only risk drawing the Inquisitor's attention to youself and as they say, innocence proves nothing.

An Inquisitor has only the powers that his authority gives him, but in an empire as hide-bound, superstitious and God-fearing as the Imperium, authority is absolute power.

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It depends. While few people, even powerful ones, are going to know an Inquisitor personally, there are a number of well known, easily contactable Inquisitors out there. In particular the Lord Inquisitor of the sector. If an Inquisitor asks you to help him virus bomb a world, odds are you'll try to contact the Lord Inquisitor and ask his opinion on the matter.

That's where personal contacts and allies come in useful. Having someone in, say, the Imperial Navy whom you can rely on to do as you ask is a huge asset. For all the authority the Inquisitors have, they still need to use the Adepta to get things done. And if the adepta aren't cooperative, you might as well hand in your badge, 'cause you'll spend more time making sure your minions are doing their jobs than hunting down heretics.

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