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hothie

My Regionals Report

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Yes, I know Regionals don't start for a few weeks, but I figured I'd start this now to get some discussion going about what I plan on running and what others are running.

I've been cycling through lists of squads trying to find the right squad for me that I think will be successful, and I think I've hit on what I'm going to play. My focus has been on trying to beat Picasso's "Han Shoots First" (HSF)list that he has been running successfully for months. Thankfully, I don't plan on facing him until the Star Wars Experience on May 4th in Minneapolis, so hopefully I'll be able to secure a win beforehand so as not to have any added pressure at that tournament.

His list is:

Han Solo with Gunner, Chewbacca, and Marksmanship
Rookie Xwing X2

Here are some of the lists I've come up with to try and beat that squad, with little success:

Mauler with Veteran Instincts
Backstabber
Saber Squadron Pilot with Veteran Instincts
Tempest Squadron Pilot with Homing Missiles
Alpha Squadron Pilot

The nice thing about this squad is losing any one ship still leaves a very offensive squad. This is also my type of squad. Having 5 different TIEs out there with different maneuvers, strengths, and weaknesses is my kind of play style. One of the weaknesses of this squad is the Tempest with Missiles. People like to put Missiles on low pilot skill fighters, but what they don't realize is that the low skill pilots move first. So here's how it plays out: low skill pilot moves, has a ship at range 3, takes a target lock on that ship. Then that ship moves and is now range 1, so even though the target lock is there, the missiles will have to wait until later. So effectively you need 2 rounds in order to use missiles on lower pilot skill fighters, one for the target lock and one to use the missiles.

I played this squad against a coworker running HSF. It was his second game, ever. We didn't use asteroids, because I wanted him to have a game where he could figure out maneuvering the falcon before we put asteroids out there. First attack round he one-shots Backstabber. I put a hurt on the falcon, but it wasn't enough. I think I killed 1 of his rooks that game. I ran a squad that I had designed to beat HSF, and the noob beat me fairly handily.

So he and I played again, same squads, this time with asteroids. First attack round, he one-shots Backstabber again. I did manage to take Han down, but I only had my Tempest without shields left vs both of his rooks at full health. This is where my flying experience kicked in, as I managed to take 1 down, then I kept barrel rolling out of his firing arc every round so that I could get a shot and he couldn't. I ended up killing the other rook and won the game, and I had only taken 1 damage from an asteroid hit that I purposefully did so that he wouldn't get a shot on me. That was against a noob. If I had been playing someone experienced, I would have lost for sure.

So I played that squad at our LGS to see how I could do against them. I won 1 game against a 4 Interceptor squad, and then I played against a Garven/Dutch/Wedge trio and lost. That game came down to die rolls, so it could have gone either way. That game also showed me the importance of setting up second, as he completely took a few of my TIEs out of the fight while they were flying across the board trying to catch up.

So, I took that lesson and made up a new squad:

Soontir Fel with Veteran Instincts and Stealth
Howlrunner with Veteran Instincts and Stealth
Turr Phennir with Veteran Instincts and Stealth
Mauler Mithel with Veteran Instincts

So my pilot skills are 11, 10, 9, and 9. So I will be setting up last and attacking either first or simultaneously. The trouble with this squad is that it has 12 hp. And given how prone Han is to one-shot a TIE, I could be in trouble quickly. Also with Howlrunner, I have to keep the squad close, which I think is a bad idea with wave 2. So I changed it up to:

Soontir Fel with VI and Stealth
Howlrunner with VI and Stealth
Boba Fett with VI and seismic charge and gunner

Now my pilot skills are 11, 10, and 10. I love being able to show up and say "My lowest pilot skill is a 10." I ran that at the LGS the next week. I beat a Lando/Biggs combo and a 4 Interceptor squad, but again I lost to HSF. Every game Howlrunner was the first to go, then Boba, then Fel. The Lando/Biggs game was very close, and it came down to Fel vs Lando and some die luck. Against the 4 squint squad, I took one out before it even had a chance to attack, which was my goal. But it still wasn't enough to beat HSF. 16 hp was a little better than 12, but still not enough. Also a side note, seismic charge on Fett was very handy, as my opponent always moved before me, so I knew right where he was going to be when I dropped it. It worked well.

Which gets me to my current squad.

Bounty Hunter
Bounty Hunter
Backstabber
Mauler Mithel with Veteran Instincts

As has been chronicled on this site, I have had difficulty flying the Firespray effectively. So during the last week I've been practicing flying 2 firesprays around a board with asteroids, and it has helped. I'm sure you think I should trick out the firesprays, but stock firesprays aren't that bad by themselves, and for the points, I'd rather have Backstabber. This squad has staying power as well, with 26 hp. I played this squad today at my LGS.

First game was against HSF. I took the Xwings out first. He took Mauler out first, then later Backstabber, which left a damaged Han vs 2 firesprays. I ended up winning that one. Then I faced a chewbacca/biggs/red sq squad. I took Biggs out a little later than I wanted to, as chewie took a crit for him. He took out Backstabber, and that was all that I lost all game. It was fairly brutal, as my BH's just kept putting hits on chewie, and eventually that was all she wrote.

And then I played against another HSF variant, this one with Swarm Tactics. I made 3 bad maneuvering errors that game. I landed on 2 asteroids that I should have avoided. And I ended up flying 1 BH off of the board at full health. I was too caught up in the rear firing arc that I didn't anticipate where he was going to go in the next round and it was all over for that one. It sucks that firesprays don't have the 1 turn option, so I have to get better at flying them. Also it didn't help that Mauler rolled 1 hit with 4 dice before dying, but such is the game.

So, with Easter being next weekend, I don't know if I will get to play again between now and the first Regional tournament. I will keep practicing flying 2 firepsrays around, though, as it definitely helped me today. I do need to get better, though, if I expect to keep up with the meta game.

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Awesome report.  Thanks Hothie!

 

Try tossing a missile boat back into the mix vs Han.  I find a homing missile + a couple interceptors tear that boat to shreds.

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great post Hothie. i always enjoy following the evolution of your various builds. i havent yet flown the slave1, mine is still in its box. the prospect of having to face two of Slave1's is scary as hell but as u have said in this and other posts they r a hard ship to fly due to their fireing arc quirkiness. In many ways the Falcon is a safer bet as its easier to fly with its 360 firing arc but i just have a feeling once someone masters a way to use the firespray and comes up with a suitable supporting cast it will prove superior to the falcon. imho its hard not to play some type of gunner crewman in the mix as you want to maximise your rerolls at every chance… something Han Solo witrh Gunner or Luke is so good at. I have briefly tested a build of han shoots first (Han/luke/marksmanhip with 2 x-wings in support) and its firepower is tough to compete with. The falcons 1 agility sucks but when u r dishing out so much hurt its not a bad tradeoff really. i do like how many people are reworking an advanced tie into their builds… homing missiles seem like a great addition and give the advanced tie a real knockout punch its probably needed.

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One of the nice things about a Firespray that I think gets overlooked is that it can take the target lock and evade actions. I found yesterday that I was taking target lock most of the time, but if I target locked a ship and it flew away from me due to it being in my rear arc, I could later take either evade or focus since the target lock remains until used. To me, target lock acts as a gunner on a stock firespray. And as I said earlier, I'd rather have Backstabber for the points. Backstabber and Mauler give my opponent some targets to make the firesprays last a few more rounds, and if he doesn't attack them, they can do some damage on their own. Plus I was barrel rolling yesterday into places that kept han from getting actions. So I like having a couple of TIEs in the mix to go along with the firesprays.

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So, the evolution continues, this time with a minor tweak.

Bounty Hunter with Ion Cannon
Bounty Hunter with Ion Cannon
Dark Curse
Academy Pilot

 

My thought is 2 ion cannons will seriously hinder a YT or firespray, and I'll likely use them when I can land the ship on an asteroid. I give up Mauler, but he was mostly just fodder anyway, as my opponents always focused on the TIEs first. He was an 18 point alpha strike absorber, which I now have a 12 point TIE for. Also I traded Backstabber for Dark Curse, because using Backstabber effectively is difficult when the TIEs are my opponent's main focus, so they will be targeted early. Dark Curse at least stands a better chance of surviving the first volleys. I give up Stealth on Dark Curse for having another Ion Cannon, which I think will be more useful anyway, especially given that the firespray can target lock.

I'm still afraid of Green Squadron Pilot X4 with Homing Missiles and Deadeye. That list is made for taking out a Firespray in the first attack, and it can survive long enough to finish off the rest of the squad. Very agile means they can boost into my blind spots. I may end up running that list at my second Regional whether I win the first one or not. I'm eager to see what others will be playing.

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I have ran a list very similar to your Bobba Fet, Fel and Howlrunner list. It is quite a strong list, and I have had someone quit a game because all his stealth devices got taken off by the seismic charge. Being able to drop it after seeing where your opponent moved to is just amazing. Mine was:

Bobba Fett with VI and Seismic
Vader with VI
Soontir Fel with VI

I do really like your two bounty hunters with ion cannons list. 

Like you, I have been having issues with the HSF list. I am also settling on the theory that two bounty hunters is the way to go for it, but I am exploring using Proximity Mines with it. Pretty much change out your Ion Cannons for the proximity mines. I am going to be playing someone I know who uses a HSF list tomorrow to try this out. 

I have had some good success against HSF with this rebel list:

Wedge with Expose and Engine Upgrade
Luke with Engine Upgrade
Biggs with R2F2 and Stealth Device

I do enjoy running the Empire much more, and I do have one list idea I want to really try out against HSF a few more times before I put it up there. 

But thank you for giving us the thought process on your list evolution. I always find it inspiring after reading it. And you have got me thinking really hard on a few concepts that could be interesting. 

 

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how about…

1x Bounty Hunter + ion cannon

1x Bounty Hunter + heavy cannon

2x Academy Pilot

the plan with this team would be to harras the falcon with ion as well as with blockers meanwhile the heavy cannon pics off choice targets. id say keeping the falcon off its actions 3 or 4 times would go a long way to winning u the game… falcon with gunner+marksmanship is bad times. As Hothie said, most the time the salves will go for target lock and have evade option when primary target goes offline. The low pilot skills hurt 1,1,3,3 but if you can weather the early storm your 2 slaves should have enough firepower to go the distance.

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DeadInkPen said:

I have ran a list very similar to your Bobba Fet, Fel and Howlrunner list. It is quite a strong list, and I have had someone quit a game because all his stealth devices got taken off by the seismic charge. Being able to drop it after seeing where your opponent moved to is just amazing.

FYI, damage dealt by a Seismic Charge will not remove a Stealth Device. Stealth removal requires you to be hit by an attack, which is clearly defined on page 12 of the rulebook. Damage from a Seismic Charge won't do it, damage from a Proximity Mine won't do it, Assault Missile splash damage won't do it, damage from hitting an asteroid won't do it. Only an uncancelled attack dice result from an attack by another ship is capable of removing the Stealth Device.

That aside, Seismic Charge can be a fun thing to drop into a hairball while you scoot out.

 

 

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The trouble with running Academy Pilots against HSF, and really, most rebel lists, is that the rookies will attack before them. It's really nice to be able to take one out before it even gets to attack, which my Mauler/Backstabber list was able to accomplish. I have serioius doubts that my Dark Curse/AP will be able to do so, because Dark Curse and my BH's will be the only ones going before the rooks. Even with Target Locks, that will be a tall order for a defensive TIE and two BH's.

And Zig's right about the Seismic Charge. Stealth Device requires an attack, of which Seismic Charge is not.

Oh, and 3 Bounty Hunters. Uh, not for me. Flying 2 effectively is hard enough for me. I can't imagine trying to fly 3 effectively.

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I have been looking at this list for regionals. It has 11, 10, 10 Pilot Skill manuveres quite well and will pack a punch. I'd give it a roll against most lists including HSF.

I would give it good odds vs Fiesprays.

To Hothie's point though, I think anything with low pilot skill is going to have trouble against HSF, especially with a two TY list.

 

Total Squad Points: 100
 
Pilot: Luke Skywalker
X-Wing (28)
Upgrades:
Veteran Instincts (1) R2 Astromech (1)
 
 
Pilot: Wedge Antilles
X-Wing (29)
Upgrades:
Veteran Instincts (1) R2 Astromech (1) Shield Upgrade (4)
 
 
Pilot: Tycho Celchu
A-Wing (26)
Upgrades:
Veteran Instincts (1) Homing Missles (5) Stealth (3)
 

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Wedge and Tycho do make a very powerful pair, to be sure. I would just worry about the low hp; Wedge is gone in 6 hits, Luke in 5, and Tycho in 4. Granted, Tycho will be a bear to get even a single hit on, which is why I think the Xwings go down first. But Tycho by himself won't be able to do much after the Missiles are gone. 

Good luck, though, I hope you do well with it. Have fun. :)

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ziggy2000 said:

DeadInkPen said:

FYI, damage dealt by a Seismic Charge will not remove a Stealth Device. Stealth removal requires you to be hit by an attack, which is clearly defined on page 12 of the rulebook. Damage from a Seismic Charge won't do it, damage from a Proximity Mine won't do it, Assault Missile splash damage won't do it, damage from hitting an asteroid won't do it. Only an uncancelled attack dice result from an attack by another ship is capable of removing the Stealth Device.

That aside, Seismic Charge can be a fun thing to drop into a hairball while you scoot out.

I figured that was the way it worked, but the TO said otherwise at the tournament start. Didn't want to hold up a tournament arguing over a ruling. But I can see where the confusion comes in since a hit does equal damage in combat.  

It was a fun experience to see happen. Thought I am not sure if I will do the regionals here as the game shop here is looking at charging a minimum of $30 to play in it. Would rather travel to some of the nearby places to play for cheaper and visit friends and family there more.

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You're welcome to come on over to ffg on the 4th. Me and some of my gaming group will be there, as well as some of the Milwaukee crowd.

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DeadInkPen said:

DeadInkPen said:

I figured that was the way it worked, but the TO said otherwise at the tournament start. Didn't want to hold up a tournament arguing over a ruling. But I can see where the confusion comes in since a hit does equal damage in combat.  

It was a fun experience to see happen. Thought I am not sure if I will do the regionals here as the game shop here is looking at charging a minimum of $30 to play in it. Would rather travel to some of the nearby places to play for cheaper and visit friends and family there more.

I hate to say it, but your TO was wrong. I hope someone is able to get to him and convince him of that before it happens again.

$30 seems a bit steep to me, especially since FFG is only charging $25 for the whole weekend which includes two regionals (X-Wing and the card game) plus several smaller tournaments, learning sessions, and workshops, with a little swag thrown on top to boot. Hope you can make it!

 

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I was thinking of running this at regionals out here in the Northeast:

 

blank.gif?v17Han Solo + Marksmanship + Gunner (54)
blank.gif?v17Gold Squadron Pilot + Ion Cannon Turret (23)
blank.gif?v17Gold Squadron Pilot + Ion Cannon Turret (23)

Any comments or suggestions?

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Picasso has mentioned running that exact list, so it must not be too bad. I kind of like it myself, because if I was facing it, I'm not all that sure what I would try to do. The Ywings are going to be harder to take down than Xwings, and all of my deft maneuvering with my Firesprays won't mean a thing if they are ioned. I say go for it. I think it's a pretty good list. You also have 3 ships with 360 arcs, so against many lists, you won't care about how well they maneuver because you will always have a shot.

 

Also, I'm tinkering around with my list (as always). what do you guys think of this:

Kath Scarlet with Marksmanship (41)
Bounty Hunter with HLC (40)
Dark Curse with Stealth (19)

Is Kath worth running? Is Marksmanship worth running? And since many people run Han with Marksmanship, should I run Dark Curse with Stealth?

I like the passing out stress, but the Awings and Interceptors will just do one of their many green maneuvers anyway, and Tycho could care less. Then I put HLC on the Bounty Hunter, making him someone to not forget about in case my opponent tries to take Kath out first.. Pilot levels are 7, 6, 3, which I'm okay with.

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Thanks for the input!  I had originally planned on running this one:

 

blank.gif?v17Han Solo + Expert Handling + Millenium Falcon + Chewbacca (53)
blank.gif?v17Lando Calrissian + Veteran Instincts + Nien Nunb (46)

but another guy at the shop saw me playing it and has been running it ever since. 

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HLC are well worth thier hefty points, I wouldn't take Kath without marksmanship,  but other than just staying alive what will dark curse bring to the table?

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A decision for my opponent, primarily. Who do you target first? The 10 hp ship passing out stress and/or crits? The 10 hp ship with HLC? or the 3 hp TIE that's very difficult to hit? If you're facing this list, who do you target?

Also, I'm pretty good at getting my TIEs in the way of the big ships. So if I face a large ship with higher than 6 Pilot Skill, I'm guessing I can get it in the way to take away actions. Or if nothing else it's a PS6 ship that will fire before many other ships and will likely last a while.

I'm not convinced that this list is better than my 2BH's with Dark Curse and AP, though, so it may be moot anyway.

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I do like your updated list a little bit more then others, though the 3 with VI was quite superb. Here is something I have tried out the last couple days against HSF:

Bobba+HLC+VI
Kath+Ion
Dark Curse

Game 1: I spent the first two turns moving up as slowly as I could, that way I could get a couple of range 3 shots off with the HLC and Ion. I was focusing on the support ships with the Ion and Dark Curse. Bobba was worried about the Falcon. Bobba shot first and got 3 shields off of Han. Han shot next and took one shield off Bobba. Kath went next with the Ion, two crits rolled X-wing got only 1 evade. So I was happy a stress and an Ion token on an X-Wing right on the first combat. Dark Curse went, nothing hit with him. The two rookies went and took 3 shields off of Kath. Round 3 I ended up with Kath right behind the rookie I Ioned and stressed at range 1 and managed to get dark curse in a shot position with out reprisal on the same rookie. With Bobba, I just did a low 45 turn.  This time I got the remaining two shields off the falcon plus two hit to his hull. Han took a shot at Dark Curse this time and got two hits in. Between Kath and Dark, the rookie went down. Round 4 - was a disengaging round for the rookie as he did a k-turn. I did 90 degree turns with all my ships getting ready for the next go around. Han shot and took out Dark Curse this round, Kath had a rear range 2 shot on Han only got one hit on that one. Round 5 - I got really lucky with Han sitting in a cross fire of Bobba and Kath. Bobba got 3 hits on him again, Han managed to hit kath poping her remaing shields and dealing 2 hits and one crit to her. Kath fired and her shot managed to deal enough damage to him to take him out. My oppent called it once he lost Han. 

Game 2: Wish this one would have went better for my opponent. He kept on landing on asteroids and even screwed up with his dial sending two of his ships off the mat. Wanted to get another game in against HSF, but he wanted to try another build against me running HSF.

I am thinking Kath with Ion is going to be up there with Turr with PtL in just sheer fun. Haven't gotten enough games in where I have gotten a sample of how this will do. What do you all think of that combo? One victory really doesn't leave me wanting to brag about it.

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DeadInkPen said:

I do like your updated list a little bit more then others, though the 3 with VI was quite superb. Here is something I have tried out the last couple days against HSF:

Bobba+HLC+VI
Kath+Ion
Dark Curse

I just plugged this into the squad builder and it came out at 104 points. Did I miss something?

 

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Sorry I meant AP instead of Dark Curse. Was doing one that was Krassius instead of Bobba and that one had Dark Curse. 

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