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moffmalthus

Dust Tactics 2nd Edition this year!!

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So I just watched a video with Paolo Parente filmed yesterday at the tourney in Arizona and he disclosed some pretty major news. He said a 2nd edition of Dust Tactics will be released by the end of this year and there will NOT be a 4th army out this year. Instead they will focus on building up the three existing factions until the release of 2nd edition. I'm guessing this means a new boxed set to replace the reived core set. He also said it's not going to have major rules changes, just fixing minor issues with the existing rules etc… Maybe they will fix some point costs for some units like Laura only costing 21 points…

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I'm all for an overhaul of the rules, as long as they don't change anything for change's sake. Mainly I hope they can revitalize some units that tend to stay in the box (Hot Dog, Blackhawk, Hermann…). I think it's fairly likely that this 2nd edition will require a whole new Card Pack. It will also be good to have all the rules and skills in a single rulebook.

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moffmalthus said:

Maybe they will fix some point costs for some units like Laura only costing 21 points…

Or Yakov being 30!  I hope they lower the cost of the helicopters to set them more in line with the Axis flyers.  I think every helicopter needs to be about 10 points cheaper.  I dont mind them being about 10 points more than the Axis counterparts, but 20-25 points more is just atrocious, and the transports at 40 points is far too high in my opinion as well, I think about 30 points is right.

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Loophole Master said:

I'm all for an overhaul of the rules, as long as they don't change anything for change's sake. 

I would hate to see an "overhaul", but there are definitely some minor changes/fixes they can make.  I really do hope they release a new card pack with some point realignments.  I doubt this will make every unit worthwhile from a competitive standpoint, but some tweaking will at least help.

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Yeah it would be great to see some of the units like the Hotdog made Viable somehow… I agree that transport choppers are rather high… maybe drop them to 32 or 33, make Yarkov about 45. He is just wrong on every level. I hear some people complaine about Winter child but I find him rather easy to take out with a good kill squad.

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Winter Child is tough, but I feel he's priced accordingly.  Yakov is good, but I think 30 is about right, possibly a little too high.  His ability is great, but 30 points for an armor 2 hero seems about right.

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moffmalthus said:

Yeah it would be great to see some of the units like the Hotdog made Viable somehow… I agree that transport choppers are rather high… maybe drop them to 32 or 33, make Yarkov about 45. He is just wrong on every level. I hear some people complaine about Winter child but I find him rather easy to take out with a good kill squad.

The thing that I've learned about Winter Child is you can't assume he's a one-man wrecking crew.  The first few games I used him I thought he would be able to absorb much more damage than he did, and like everything in Dust, he will go down quickly if not supported properly.  I find it best to slow-play Winter Child and use him more as a decoy on a flank, then striking with him at the right time.  It forces your opponent to not commit his forces and leave certain units available to counter him, while the rest of your army can chip away at other stuff.

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Loophole Master said:

I really hope they do something a bit more interesting with the pilots.

Yeah, the big problem right now with pilots is the point cost.  I just dont find the value in using a pilot, espcially for the 20-25 points it costs.  I mean, is a one-time fighting spirit or take aim really good enough to pay that many points?  I don't think so.  It's sad too, because I really want to use Nikolai on some of the new SSU armor, but I just cant justify the points cost.

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I 100% agree about Nikolai. There is no way he is worth 26 points for what you get. Total point sink there. I think Yarkov is cheap because with superior tactician you are almost guaranteed to win initiative every round. It works out much better than black ops on Bazooka Joe. I've mentioned this before too but they really need to change the activation so that if one oponent has more units than another they don't have say 4 or 5 units left to move at the end of a round. I've seen otherwise well balanced games fall apart because your oponent saves all there best units for last and stacks in several spotter teams or other cheap units just to get an unfair advantage.

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moffmalthus said:

I 100% agree about Nikolai. There is no way he is worth 26 points for what you get. Total point sink there. I think Yarkov is cheap because with superior tactician you are almost guaranteed to win initiative every round. It works out much better than black ops on Bazooka Joe. I've mentioned this before too but they really need to change the activation so that if one oponent has more units than another they don't have say 4 or 5 units left to move at the end of a round. I've seen otherwise well balanced games fall apart because your oponent saves all there best units for last and stacks in several spotter teams or other cheap units just to get an unfair advantage.

Right, and this is the reason why certain lists are much better in tournament play.  I mean, Recon Grenadiers for 16 points are just insanely powerful because you can spam a bunch of them for cheap, effectively being able to "out activate" your opponent.  

I've had this problem with my SSU, one of the main reasons I decided to start an SSU army was the helicopters and being able to do an "air mobile" army.  But between the high point cost of the transports and trying to fill them with infantry/walkers, I'm only able to squeeze in 7 or 8 units.  When fighting an army that has those cheap chuff models, they're able to hold back all their anti-air and wait for me to deploy/advance, then just blast away with it all, rendering that army useless.  Which is sad, because I prefer to use a smaller, more elite army rather than a "horde", but the advantages are largely in favor of unit count right now.

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While I do agree with many of the statements made here, I'd prefer not to see too many units get new stats or points, I for one don't want to have to buy a new Card Set every few years because they decided to re-point a bunch of units again.

But that said I would like to see some rules for army compisition, so that Recon and Observer spam lists designed solely to max out activations are not allowed.

But I guess well all have to wait and see, I hope we'll get a look at the rules well before the launch of the 2nd edition in the 4th Quarter.

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Miah999 said:

 I hope we'll get a look at the rules well before the launch of the 2nd edition in the 4th Quarter.

 

You and me both.  They are missing a huge opportunity for making the game better if they don't ask for our input before finalizing the new rules.

 

As for buying new cards, I don't mind as long as they're reasonably priced.  The last upgrade pack was only about $12--I had no problem spending that. 

 

But we have way more units now, so the next upgrade pack will probably be more like $25, I'm thinking.  Which would still be fair, IMHO.

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Kriegschatten said:

Miah999 said:

 

 I hope we'll get a look at the rules well before the launch of the 2nd edition in the 4th Quarter.

 

 

 

You and me both.  They are missing a huge opportunity for making the game better if they don't ask for our input before finalizing the new rules.

 

As for buying new cards, I don't mind as long as they're reasonably priced.  The last upgrade pack was only about $12--I had no problem spending that. 

 

But we have way more units now, so the next upgrade pack will probably be more like $25, I'm thinking.  Which would still be fair, IMHO.

not necessarily, they could make faction specific upgrade packs, which makes more sense to begin with. Maybe each card pack could be like $10-$12 and you just buy the ones you want.

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I'd rather see faction specific upgrade packs too, as I don't have any SSU unit, so those cards would be wasted for me.

Actually looking forward for a new base set with hopefully new "starter" units.

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Well, my only major charge against current DT rules is lack of regulation of spotter-spamming issue to out-activate enemy, it definitelly should be corrected.  As Loop said, it will also be good to have all the rules and skills in a single rulebook. Changing stats of already existing units smells like GW practice to me but I`m afraid is enevitable in some cases (Hot Dog, Blackhawk, Hermann, Hammers etc.)

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Gothik said:

Well, my only major charge against current DT rules is lack of regulation of spotter-spamming issue to out-activate enemy, it definitelly should be corrected.  As Loop said, it will also be good to have all the rules and skills in a single rulebook. Changing stats of already existing units smells like GW practice to me but I`m afraid is enevitable in some cases (Hot Dog, Blackhawk, Hermann, Hammers etc.)

If this were GW they would simply make 7 Axis subfactions that progressively get stronger and stronger while the SSU and Allies sit by the wayside waiting 7 years for an update. 

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Rule changes aside, I would like that FFG took advantage of a second edition of "Dust Tactics" to make units and heroes more accessible to newcomers. By this I mean doing additional hero packs to make possible to acquire some heroes without having to buy an expansion box (whose rules will have become outdated) and maybe make additional six-soldier unit boxes (as in "The Gunners" and "Battle Grenadiers") to combine two possible units whose only difference is one soldier. I.e. Minbiaturewise, the "Hell Boys" are a "BBQ Squad" with a second flamer, so a new "BBQ Squad" box who included a sixth soldier armed with a flamer would give you the option of fielding a "BBQ Squad" or a "Hell Boys" squad buying only one box. I think the same could be done with "Recon Boys / Death Dealers" and "Recongrenadiers / Sturmpioniere" boxes.

Faction startes boxes would also be greatly appreciated.

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Faction started boxes are a great idea but I'm not sure 6 man squads will be possible unless your talking level 1 infantry. Even then I think you would see 5 man squads that maybe cost 8 or 9 points.

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From what I've been able to gather so far 2.0 will be more of a streamlining then an overhaul, with little change to the core gameplay.

Also a note about spotter spam, do you guys really have trouble beating spotter heavy lists? I've never had much of a problem with being out activated, and most of the time the high activation list get whittle down to equal or less activations by mid-game. I do recognize it as an advantage but I feel its self regulating as the the more spotters their the lower  the overall strength of the army.

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